Robbersway & Illegible BC CCA response - enforceable?

[sidley]

Hi all,

 

Here is the response from DCA from a complaint I made to them. In the letter i received from them they say that this is their "Final Response" to the complaint. And that the documents sent to me satisfy their legal obligations under the CCA 1974 etc.

 

I have removed all personal information from it and the big white patch you can see over where a "signature" was -who knows impossible to tell due to the quality - looks like a big white sticker with some sort of bar code on it. Date on application form 1997.

 

The t and c's are the wrong shape and size to have fitted anywhere on the application form and nowhere does it connect with the application form (ie serial number or anything else)

 

The bits i can read, if I squint hard enough and go cross-eyed, have nothing about interest rates or penalties.

 

And yes the scan is as bad as the original sent to me.

 

My question is does this satisfy the request and would a court accept them? If, of course, it goes that far.

 

Thank you in anticipation.

[unclebulgaria67]

I think it probably would be satisfactory for a CCA request. Not sure about the arguments in court, if you challenged when a debt owner tried to enforce the debt.

 

This thread would be better in financial legal or debt collection. Click on the triangle for site team to move. Few would see it under FOS folder.

[dx100uk]

moved to the Barclaycard forum

 

 

dx

[sidley]

thank you.

[mikeymack2002]

The detail is in the reading of your 1st document. My first response I read the very top line that is your application form. This one is not a credit agreement. It's an application form. So without looking at the second I assume they are the T&C's..

 

So providing an application form is not providing a credit agreement. They have not complied with your request, it's now in dispute.

 

Sit back and wait to see what they send next. Keep these documents safe as you will need them later. If you have the envelopes keep them too...

 

As dx100uk says no CCA no pay. Now its currently unenforceable...

 

In response to your final question I think not.. Others will be along shortly..

[dx100uk]

canyou please PDL those pix

 

 

and who the DCA

 

 

the full debt history would help too

 

 

dx

[mikeymack2002]

Dx means PDF even

[unclebulgaria67]

Where are you with this debt ? Is this with Barclays or a DCA ? Which DCA ?

 

When did you take out the card ?

 

What is happening at the moment ? Are they threatening a court claim ?

 

Are you currently paying the debt or when did you stop paying ?

 

If the card was taken out before April 2007, they would need the original CCA or a good copy of the original. Not sure about what they sent you because it is an application which they used to issue the CCA.

[sidley]

Thank you for all your replies.

 

1. I will pdf them as soon as possible, thanks dx

 

2. Now Robinson Way/Hoist was MKDP ( believe there the same company?) before that there were 2 other DCA's. as soon as I requested CCA nothing more was heard from them.

 

3. stopped paying the account in 2011,

it was at that time I became unwell and tried to claim on the PPI

but was told that as self-employed it did not cover me.

 

The PPI has been claimed back of sorts.

Took me ages to get them to reply/comply.

Letters to FoS ICO etc, they only reimbursed me for 6 years.

 

 

They said that was what was legally required of them,

if I wanted to go back further than that I would need documented proof of what

and how long I paid for

(alas I had not kept statements for that long ago).

 

 

During that time they kept on putting penalties and interest on top of interest bumping up the amount I owed.

Eventually, when they did pay the 6 years of PPI back they took it straight off the debt.

 

I had no problem with that, but while they were faffin about with the PPI investigation up went the debt.

If they had reimbursed me without all the delays then the PPI amount would have cleared the debt owed.

 

 

I asked them to reduce the rest to zero because of the time it took, b

ut alas, they said NO and more or less implied that I would need to take them to court.

 

 

After consulting with solicitor who said I had a probable case,

but if I failed I could end up losing thousands more.

 

 

He said that Barclaycard would defend it to the death,

as they would not want to set a legal precedent,

and even if I won the first round they would appeal against it until I ran out of funds.

 

I decided not to go to court as I couldn't afford to lose anymore.

 

4. Card taken out 1997

 

5. MKDP went quiet for 2 years + (no response to CCA).

Then got letter last October - Hoist were now the legal owners of this account.

 

 

Last letter before I sent CCA request said they were handing it over to one of their solicitors for their consideration

- didn't say they were taking action.

 

 

That's when I decided to CCA then again,

this time I got a response from RW said they were applying to the original OC fro requested docs.

 

 

Strangely though when I first sent the CCA RW replied that the OC refused to supply them.

Asked me to write to barclaycard but send the letter to them and they would forward request to BC

 

6.I do not believe that they are recon T&C's at inception but the varied T&C's as they are dated 2010.

Secondly, I can not read any of the agreement to check it!

 

7. Checked with Experian today no defaults registered to me. Clean history, would they have registered it?

 

Question anyone?

Why have Barclycard been so awkward, at the time of my illness

the other to credit card companies were wonderful,

They offered 50% reduction of debt( I just asked to reduce it a bit)

and I had PPI with one of them and they helped me claim it back from the inception of the contract.

 

 

Then they asked me if I wanted the money or could they pay off the remaining balance. I said yes of course.

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

oops! spelling correction; last paragraph should read other 2 credit card companies

[theoldrouge]

if they wish to rely on a recon for s78 purposes only

then it must be a true copy of the original, together with the original t&cs and the t&cs at closure

it must also be legible

so they seem to have failed on all counts

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13.pdf

[sidley]

@ oldrouge Thanks for the help just read it:-)

[unclebulgaria67]

Banks have to hold records for a minimum of 12 years, which is basically 6 years beyond normal limitation. In practice they hold the records for longer for many purposes. It is just that they don't have immediate access and have to either go to an outside storage provider or they have to access an archive system. If you had taken the complaint further with the FOS, you might have got more of the PPI back.

 

You could consider getting the FOS involved in the whole PPI issue in regard to how far back they refunded, also the PPI refund going against the debt without dealing with the other issues you had. The good thing about registering a complaint against Barclaycard, is that once you confirm this to the DCA, they have to stop collection activities.

 

I think the DCA would have some difficulty in winning at court if you defended. They really need the original or a true copy of it. I can't see the point in writing about it, as they don't want to respond to you further.

[sidley]

@unclebulgaria Thank you for your help

I had to sign a document from Barclaycard saying that I accepted this offer of PPI refund as full settlement. Which unfortunately, I did after visit to solicitor frightening me with how much it could cost to go to court.

 

Is there anyway around that?

[dx100uk]

follow the upload

[sidley]

Big thanks to dx.

 

Here are the pdf scans

cca barclaycard 2.pdf

cca barclaycard.pdf

[theoldrouge]

was that the lot?

[dx100uk]

that's bog role application form

without the correct T&C's

 

 

dx

[sidley]

hi oldrouge, thanks again

 

There were other t&c's but I didn't scan them so badly copied very faint the only thing I can make out for sure at the bottom of the page it says 09/98? (even with magnifying glass I'm not sure) another one slightly better date 11/10 and the original t&c's (see photo) if that is what they are? does not have any date on it and again badly copied no mention of interest rate or penalties that I can make out. Default notice from Mercers 08/11. No default notice from Barclaycard, but then again I think mercers were some kind of in house agents. And copies of a few statements.

 

That's it.

[mikeymack2002]

The documents they send to you MUST legible, clearly this is not the case, which still means they have failed to comply...

[unclebulgaria67]

@unclebulgaria Thank you for your help

I had to sign a document from Barclaycard saying that I accepted this offer of PPI refund as full settlement. Which unfortunately, I did after visit to solicitor frightening me with how much it could cost to go to court.

 

Is there anyway around that?

 

Did BC provide you with FOS details saying that you could go to the FOS or were they just pushing you into accepting this final settlement ?

 

You could complain on two fronts. The way BC handled your complaint and also the issues that the delayed PPI complaint handling allowed the account situation to worsen.

 

Remember that had BC accepted the PPI claim, allowing for their miss selling, it would have helped you. Perhaps BC should have looked at how the miss selling affected you and been fairer.

[citizenB]

If this was one of those forms that you had to seal and send back, then the full terms and conditions could not possibly have been contained within them. On the back side of the form would have been the address to where the form had to be returned.

[sidley]

Hi CitizenB,

 

Yes the application form is typed apart from signing and printing name.

 

Thank you for your help.

[citizenB]

IMHO the document you have might satisfy the CCA request, but not sure it would be sufficient for a claim against you.

 

You would need for others with more knowledge to advise how to deal with this, sidley,

[sidley]

@unclebulgaria,

 

Thank you for your help.

 

They sent a FOS pamphlet with the offer. I then went to FOS and ICO but BC claimed that that was all they had on me. With the first CCA I did a few years ago to BC I did get the same badly photocopied application form. FOS said it did not comply with the CCA request. Then got ICO involved over non response to SAR from BC which I think was suggested to me by FOS as a way of getting everything they had on me. Eventually, after a very long time and after I guess threats from ICO or FOS can't remember which one- BC responded by saying that re: application form -" it is highly unlikely that we will be able to produce anything better than that already supplied. " or words to that effect. Still got that letter up in the loft, will have to retrieve it at w/end.

 

By way of explanation, at that time I was very unwell and was new to all this stuff ICO FOS etc. and I believed what advice they gave to me. I didn't know about sites like this.

We were trying to establish at that time a link all the way back to the date on the application form for a refund. I believe that FOS is about as useful as a chocolate teapot, with the ICO not far behind.

 

Thanks again everyone.

[citizenB]

Well for sure if you can retreive that letter, it might well be of some value.