Charities.

[Mr.P]

Charities seem to just be businesses these days and I get the impression that they view donors as potential cash cows.

 

One very sad story to illustrate the point: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/14/bristol-pensioner-body-avon-gorge-olive-cooke

 

The follow up after the inquest in to Olive Cooke's death: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/20/poppy-seller-who-killed-herself-got-up-to-3000-charity-mailings-a-year

 

Note: The link to an interim report from the Fund Raising Standards Board mentioned in the last Guardian article is dead (the FRSB no longer exists). The issues raised by this unfortunate case are important enough to warrant locating and preserving the FRSB findings. The final report is attached.

FRSB-Investigation-Report-Into-Charity-Fundraising-Practices-Instigated-by-the-Mrs-Cooke-Case1-1.pdf

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I know a manager working for a charity who earns £80k/year.

My mum next door neighbour has been unemployed for his entire life but he's the founder and president of a charity.

He drives super expensive cars, takes extended family on holiday at least 4 times a year and for his wife's 50s he got her a gold Rolex limited edition.

He doesn't claim benefits.

I wonder how he affords all of this...

 

So go and get the skills and qualifications to run your own charity.

Work 12 or 15 hour days every day and dont pay yourself.

You do that, and then come back.

The guy running the charity may well be able to earn ten times what he earns now if he ran a fully fledged business, but he doesn't, he runs a charity, full time.

I'm not saying he is legit, but I'm not saying he isn't.

People need to be paid, and if you don't have someone with the correct qualifications and experience running a charity, the charity WILL fail.

I know first hand that there are dodgy charities out there, but don't slag off genuinely hard working folks if they earn what they deserve.

I know a full time solicitor that works solely for a charity, used to earn upwards of £200,000k a year and now earns circa £100,000 a year. He took a £100,000 a year PAY CUT! But the charity needed a full time qualified person for that position.

 

Come on mastermind, you tell me what they should have done in that situation? Take on a non qualified 18 year old school leaver on minimum wage to do his job instead? Or better yet, put an advert out "fully qualified solicitor needed for xxxxxx law area. No pay or benefits of any kind". I dont think so. Charities are businesses. They have to be. Otherwise they wouldn't work.

 

Also, I know a charity that spends 100's of £1000 on advertising every year.

But its advertising its services to the people that NEED the service. That money has to come from the charity source, and therefor, you have probably lost 20% of donations right there. You tell me how they should keep getting the word out about themselves.

 

If its one thing that annoyes me , its people that think they can do better, but sit on the sofa all day and just gob off about it.

 

And yes, I do work for a charity in my spare time, as a VOLUNTEER!! But I appreciate that those at the top earn big bucks to work full time to keep this particular charity alive and kicking for the greater good.

[king12345]

So go and get the skills and qualifications to run your own charity.

Work 12 or 15 hour days every day and dont pay yourself.

You do that, and then come back.

The guy running the charity may well be able to earn ten times what he earns now if he ran a fully fledged business, but he doesn't, he runs a charity, full time.

I'm not saying he is legit, but I'm not saying he isn't.

People need to be paid, and if you don't have someone with the correct qualifications and experience running a charity, the charity WILL fail.

I know first hand that there are dodgy charities out there, but don't slag off genuinely hard working folks if they earn what they deserve.

I know a full time solicitor that works solely for a charity, used to earn upwards of £200,000k a year and now earns circa £100,000 a year. He took a £100,000 a year PAY CUT! But the charity needed a full time qualified person for that position.

 

Come on mastermind, you tell me what they should have done in that situation? Take on a non qualified 18 year old school leaver on minimum wage to do his job instead? Or better yet, put an advert out "fully qualified solicitor needed for xxxxxx law area. No pay or benefits of any kind". I dont think so. Charities are businesses. They have to be. Otherwise they wouldn't work.

 

Also, I know a charity that spends 100's of £1000 on advertising every year.

But its advertising its services to the people that NEED the service. That money has to come from the charity source, and therefor, you have probably lost 20% of donations right there. You tell me how they should keep getting the word out about themselves.

 

If its one thing that annoyes me , its people that think they can do better, but sit on the sofa all day and just gob off about it.

 

And yes, I do work for a charity in my spare time, as a VOLUNTEER!! But I appreciate that those at the top earn big bucks to work full time to keep this particular charity alive and kicking for the greater good.

 

Charity directors not only earn too much compared to normal directors, but don't declare most of their income.

I.e. Holidays abroad = charity pr trip

Latest jaguar in the garage = company vehicle, no personal tax insurance etc.

5 bedroom mansion = charity office/asset on a nominal rent of £500/month part of expenses, in other words free.

Expensive dining experience = again charity pr.

I could go on and on with all the stuff that my mum's neighbour brags about.

Everything he does is perfectly legal, but it's paid by donations.

What bothers me is that they walk about with a sense of accomplishment and superiority because they "help" others.

NO, they help themselves!

I and many million invisible donor don't give to charities for this reason, but give directly to people in need so there's no middle man.

I know a couple of families in my parish who have had a run of bad luck and fallen behind with payments.

Last episode, me and another friend helped them clear the bills so they don't have to think about it at Christmas.

I also contacted a friend working as a decorator and he gave the fella a full week work.

I know where the money is gone, surely not in someone's pocket to pay for a jag.

I also go along with my priest to local prison to give support to young guys who are locked up.

No money involved, nobody skimming anything out of it.

I know directors and other professionals need to be paid, but many take the mickey, sorry but you didn't convince me.

[AndyOrch]

Post unapproved...please keep this civil.

 

Andy

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Charity directors not only earn too much compared to normal directors, but don't declare most of their income.

I.e. Holidays abroad = charity pr trip

Latest jaguar in the garage = company vehicle, no personal tax insurance etc.

5 bedroom mansion = charity office/asset on a nominal rent of £500/month part of expenses, in other words free.

Expensive dining experience = again charity pr.

I could go on and on with all the stuff that my mum's neighbour brags about.

Everything he does is perfectly legal, but it's paid by donations.

What bothers me is that they walk about with a sense of accomplishment and superiority because they "help" others.

NO, they help themselves!

I and many million invisible donor don't give to charities for this reason, but give directly to people in need so there's no middle man.

I know a couple of families in my parish who have had a run of bad luck and fallen behind with payments.

Last episode, me and another friend helped them clear the bills so they don't have to think about it at Christmas.

I also contacted a friend working as a decorator and he gave the fella a full week work.

I know where the money is gone, surely not in someone's pocket to pay for a jag.

I also go along with my priest to local prison to give support to young guys who are locked up.

No money involved, nobody skimming anything out of it.

I know directors and other professionals need to be paid, but many take the mickey, sorry but you didn't convince me.

 

Pull the other one. It has bells on.

 

Is that better Andy?

 

I'm sorry, but king is essentially saying that anyone running a charity is a sc**mer and I find that highly offensive.

[king12345]

Pull the other one. It has bells on.

 

Is that better Andy?

 

I'm sorry, but king is essentially saying that anyone running a charity is a sc**mer and I find that highly offensive.

 

I find it offensive that you are offended, in fact i find the word "offensive" offensive.

I am offended by every word, every living being and every act of nature.

 

Back to earth:

Not everyone who runs a charity is a sc@mmer, but surely a large majority.

And none of them are living on the breadline to help others.

 

This is the result:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12046438/true-and-fair-foundation-hornets-nest-charity-report.html

[determindator]

The Salvation Army is highly praised

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

There are 1000's of charities that are highly praised.

Some people are just perfectly happy to tar a whole community due to a few bad apples.

[king12345]

I wonder why no charity publishes their full accounts.

By this I mean itemising every single expenditure and income to show how righteous they are.

Example: Stationery= £500

Marketing 1 tv ads: £3000

Marketing 2 radio ads: £1000

Directors wages: £5000

Company vehicles: £5000

Entertainment: £3000

Rent:£5000

Etc. Etc.

 

This would make donors more confident that money is used wisely.

My guess is that if such schedules were published there would be outrageous expenditures which donors would question.

For example: Does the director really need a £70k jaguar as company car?

No, a decent £15k vehicle would take them from a to b just the same and still look presentable.

If I had to run a charity I would simply share online all receipts and accounts, not a summary, but everything that goes through admin.

In today's virtual world this could be set up automatically without putting any pressure on administrators.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I wonder why no charity publishes their full accounts.

By this I mean itemising every single expenditure and income to show how righteous they are.

Example: Stationery= £500

Marketing 1 tv ads: £3000

Marketing 2 radio ads: £1000

Directors wages: £5000

Company vehicles: £5000

Entertainment: £3000

Rent:£5000

Etc. Etc.

 

This would make donors more confident that money is used wisely.

My guess is that if such schedules were published there would be outrageous expenditures which donors would question.

For example: Does the director really need a £70k jaguar as company car?

No, a decent £15k vehicle would take them from a to b just the same and still look presentable.

If I had to run a charity I would simply share online all receipts and accounts, not a summary, but everything that goes through admin.

In today's virtual world this could be set up automatically without putting any pressure on administrators.

 

You would still need someone employed part time to collate,scan and publish the receipts from the charity and also a contract for someone to run the website.

As a director, you wouldn't have time for that yourself.

So there goes another £20k of donated money.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Oh, and charities do keep accounts. And the charity commission can inspect them at any time to look for issues.

If you believe a charity has acted wrongly, you can report them to the charity commission.

Its not cost effective to collate and publish accounts. For a lot of charities, the few thousand that it would take to sort an accountant just isn't available.

[king12345]

You would still need someone employed part time to collate,scan and publish the receipts from the charity and also a contract for someone to run the website.

As a director, you wouldn't have time for that yourself.

So there goes another £20k of donated money.

 

Nowadays all receipt and invoices are scanned and/or in digital format.

This is the easiest way to keep track of spending and income along with each figure being inserted in a simple in/out spreadsheet which all admin keep.

Sharing this with the world doesn't cost £20k.

I used to run a business and all invoices and receipts were scanned if not already digital, for safe keeping and easy finding at later date.

My admin spent max 10 minutes a day scanning the very few receipt that couldn't be emailed directly to the company.

I suppose a large organisation raking in millions would do something similar.

At least they have to enter all receipts amounts in a spreadsheet with a brief description, otherwise how do they account for it?

Anyhow, publishing a full transparent account doesn't cost £20k, not even £1k.

More like £50.

But then the Pandora's box would be open...

Leave these things alone, my grandfather used to tell me (he was from sicily where you better pretend not to see such things)

[HSBCrusher]

Charities seem to just be businesses these days and I get the impression that they view donors as potential cash cows.

^^^^ This ^^^^

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Nowadays all receipt and invoices are scanned and/or in digital format.

This is the easiest way to keep track of spending and income along with each figure being inserted in a simple in/out spreadsheet which all admin keep.

Sharing this with the world doesn't cost £20k.

I used to run a business and all invoices and receipts were scanned if not already digital, for safe keeping and easy finding at later date.

My admin spent max 10 minutes a day scanning the very few receipt that couldn't be emailed directly to the company.

I suppose a large organisation raking in millions would do something similar.

At least they have to enter all receipts amounts in a spreadsheet with a brief description, otherwise how do they account for it?

Anyhow, publishing a full transparent account doesn't cost £20k, not even £1k.

More like £50.

But then the Pandora's box would be open...

Leave these things alone, my grandfather used to tell me (he was from sicily where you better pretend not to see such things)

 

So you could scan, sort, file, add to the account books, add to an online account and then maintain an publish a website for £50 a YEAR? Wow. The charity I work for have 4 full time employees in the account dept looking after this.

 

Yes, maybe if you had a business that only employed you and only had 1 or 2 reciepts a day. Understandable.

But a charity is a business. Sonyou have staff, so you have a HR dept, an accounts dept, a management dept.. That the care minimum to keep a large charity or business afloat.

 

Like I said, some people think they could run a charity on nothing. Naive thinking that is.

[citizenB]

Charities seem to just be businesses these days and I get the impression that they view donors as potential cash cows.

 

I was shocked by the ICO fines handed out to the RSPCA and British Heart Foundation. They've both misused people's personal information and seem unrepentant about doing it, judging by news reports just after the announcement.

 

Why should donations go towards paying the fines? They should be paid by the people who decided to carry out wealth screening, data matching and so on.

 

HB

 

 

I agree, the fines should be paid from the Directors' salaries !

[HSBCrusher]

Stick with small local charities, local hospices for instance.

Or give to the needy direct.

 

I've done work for one very large famous charity. Money was no object, there was no expense spared.

 

It's so easy to spend someone else's money!!

[king12345]

So you could scan, sort, file, add to the account books, add to an online account and then maintain an publish a website for £50 a YEAR? Wow. The charity I work for have 4 full time employees in the account dept looking after this.

 

Yes, maybe if you had a business that only employed you and only had 1 or 2 reciepts a day. Understandable.

But a charity is a business. Sonyou have staff, so you have a HR dept, an accounts dept, a management dept.. That the care minimum to keep a large charity or business afloat.

 

Like I said, some people think they could run a charity on nothing. Naive thinking that is.

 

£50 is the extra that would cost to put the accounts online.

It is assumed that all the normal admin must be done as a matter of day to day activity.

£50 is for some online storage space where all expenditures and income is transparently available to donors and loaded automatically with available softwares.

D'oh!

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

£50 is the extra that would cost to put the accounts online.

It is assumed that all the normal admin must be done as a matter of day to day activity.

£50 is for some online storage space where all expenditures and income is transparently available to donors and loaded automatically with available softwares.

D'oh!

 

Really? A secure website so it cant be hacked?

Enough storage for what could be thousands of documents a year and backed up storage space.

The day to day running and monitoring of said website.

All for £50 a year?

 

Just to "assume" it could be done as a normal course of the days admin is wrong. It need to be done properly or not at all.

We here slag off all the companies that dont do it properly, and now you are thinking like them.

 

And then, dont forget the data protection issues of what is actually on the receipts.

 

You really haven't thought it through. Its vary naive to think that's how it can be done.

But feel free to try it that way.

[stu007]

I do agree some charities should be more Open and Accountable on their websites.

 

Also as a Charity they would have to be registered with the relevant Charity Regulator who would probably require financial accounts as part of registration and annually to stay registered.

 

Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): http://www.oscr.org.uk/

 

Charity Commission for England and Wales: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/charity-commission

 

The Charity Commission for Northern Ireland: http://www.charitycommissionni.org.uk/

 

Always check the above sites to confirm if the charity is registered before parting with anything.

Edited December 21, 2016 by stu007

[stu007]

I could also say the charities use a postcode lottery with there calls & mail marketing why well where I was born and brought up was and still to this day is classed as a socially deprived area even after serving in the forces for some yrs and coming back to the same area, not a bit of charity mail through the letter box.

 

Then due to my medical condition & disability was move to another property adapted which happened to be in whats classed as an affluent area and the influx of bag through the letterbox its only a sunday they don't and yes I did get annoyed until I realised lovely all these free bin bags.

 

My father still stays in the same flat and guess what not a drop of charity mail through his letterbox and phones me to bring some bags down on my next visit.

 

Classic is we are only 5 miles away such a difference just by postcode