@vodafoneuk Help with Vodafone LBA

[Poke The Bear]

Latest update:

 

 

I received a letter before action from the Leeds Losers. That came as a surprise, so I had a nosey on CAG to see how many others are getting these. A search for "Lowell Solicitors" shows that other Caggers are indeed receiving similar letters and claim forms. On that basis, I am taking the threat seriously and expect a claim form to arrive through my letterbox any day.

 

 

Looks like it may be another batch of speculative claims in the middle of being sent out like confetti, in the hopes of picking up the odd default judgment.

 

 

I decided to email them this evening and warn them that if they choose to try this one on me, that I will be dust off the old counterclaim-o-matic and aim it in their direction. At least they cannot say they weren't warned.

 

 

Btw, are Lowell Solicitors real solicitors, or still clowns dressed as solicitors? I ask because their letter says on the back that they are regulated by the SRA. Would be intrigued to find out if they are telling porkies or not

 

 

Watch this space...

[silverfox1961]

At one stage, Lowell used to farm out their legal work but now they do it all in house.

 

I have seen that they do file a claim for VF debts but I have also seen claims discontinued when Lowell cannot provide documents to back up their case.

 

As a Letter Before Action is part of the Pre Action Protocols used before court, you could now send them a cpr request. Usually this is sent AFTER a court claim is issued but you could argue that as they have started the court actions by sending the LBA, this would be grounds to send a cpr 31.14 request.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387484-LEGAL-CPR-31.14-Request-Request-for-information-when-a-Claim-has-been-issued.

 

No doubt others will disagree with my suggestion.

[BankFodder]

Well this is been a very long and drawnout matter so far as I can see. I see that one of the problems is that you have been ill.

 

Anyway, I have re-read over your first post to refresh my understanding of the situation. It goes on a bit and we may need to clean it up later on so that it is all clearer.

 

I see also that you sent off for an SAR in 2015 and that the disclosure was made to you in September of that year. I notice that you say that the disclosure was not complete – but after that you haven't made any further comment.

 

I think what I'd like to know is whether the disclosure contains evidence of all the complaints that you have referred to in your first post. He said that some material is missing but you haven't said what and we don't know if you have taken any action to get it.

 

Although you have been ill, I have the feeling that that is only part of the reason why you haven't been back to us. I think that the other part of the reason is that you hadn't heard anything – but the problem is that this has left things undone and to a great extent this thread has gone cold.

 

I think that now you have had a letter before action, you need to start concentrating your mind and sorting out the paperwork that you have so we can understand exactly what you've got. This will be necessary in order to help you prepare a defence.

[BazzaS]

At one stage, Lowell used to farm out their legal work but now they do it all in house.

 

I have seen that they do file a claim for VF debts but I have also seen claims discontinued when Lowell cannot provide documents to back up their case.

 

As a Letter Before Action is part of the Pre Action Protocols used before court, you could now send them a cpr request. Usually this is sent AFTER a court claim is issued but you could argue that as they have started the court actions by sending the LBA, this would be grounds to send a cpr 31.14 request.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387484-LEGAL-CPR-31.14-Request-Request-for-information-when-a-Claim-has-been-issued.

 

No doubt others will disagree with my suggestion.

 

I disagree, but only in so far as to which part of CPR 31!

 

31.14 limits the document to being in

(a) a statement of case;

(b) a witness statement;

© a witness summary; or

(d) an affidavit.

 

These don't yet exist as the claim hasn't been sent to the court, so 31.14 doesn't yet apply.

 

31.16 is the correct route to take, until a claim is issued, as it is specifically for "before proceedings start", and relies on s52(2) of the Counry Court's Act 2984

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/28/section/52

 

Ask them for the documents, highlighting that they appear to intend to make a claim, and you'll use 31.16 if they haven't issued the claim, and 31.14 if they have (and while it may be later allocated to the Small Claims track, both 31.14 and 31.16 apply until such allocation)...

This will (as SF mentioned) highlight that you'll put them to strict proof, and may well see them off, but won't allow them to reply "CPR 31.14 not applicable"

[Poke The Bear]

Hi BF

 

 

I noticed that not all of the complaints I sent were logged on the system, which probably explains why VF employees later on in the game would claim that they had no knowledge of the complaint. Fortunately I kept all those emails filed away.

 

 

My health problems got worse and the ultimate cause of them was also a source of concern because it became a legal matter. It has obviously been my priority given that, if I don't solve the problem at its root, it could ultimately cost me my life. That is how serious it became, and the matter is also soon to end up in court. Because it is likely to become quite a media circus in some ways, I wanted to get it out of the way before turning my attention back to Vodafone. Looks like Lowell want to drop this in my lap now regardless of my preferences.

 

 

Also, Vodafone responded to my SAR around the same time that they sold the account to Lowell. My understanding from this is that they decided to have nothing further to do with the account from this point. Based on this, I doubt any further SAR requests would yield any further data beyond the date of sale to Lowell... and I suspect those missing complaints are lost given that they were never logged in the first place.

[silverfox1961]

Apologies to Bazza. He is of course correct. My bad

 

If you haven't printed out and saved any email sent to VF, do so. If you have cloud storage, use that as well. Never trust a computer to store data for a long time.

[Poke The Bear]

I've attached a response from Lowell Solicitors. Any ideas on how to respond to them?

 

 

When I disputed with the CRAs, I attached evidence in the form of my SAR notes showing the closed account and terminated service, as well as the section 10 notice sent to Vodafone under the Data Protection Act. I know for a fact that all this information was forwarded to Lowell, as Equifax in particular make a point of showing that they have forwarded the lot to Lowell. They even wanted me to resend docs, as some did not come through on the submission form, so they could get the whole lot through to Lowell.

 

 

Now Lowell are acting as though this is the first they have heard and sending me what is, in effect, a "prove it" letter without providing any proof themselves that any debt is owed. In fact, their response to the CRAs was "If the original creditor says it is owed, then we will take their word for it and chase the money anyway".

Lowell response 08-12-16_Redacted.pdf

[silverfox1961]

I'm afraid that's how things work with Lowell. All they see is a potential profit however, they have started to get their act together a little.

 

A s10 notice can only be used where an account is closed and where nothing is owed. Termination does not mean closed so your s10 will have little or no effect.

 

As far as them asking you for proof, shouldn't that be the other way round? They should provide proof that you owe what is being claimed by providing a full breakdown of the debt.

 

You should be able to work out what the termination charges are as they would be the outstanding monthly charge for each month outstanding. Anything over that will be VF's admin charges and if they are high, they can be challenged.

 

I think a re read of this thread is in order that I can remind myself of the state of matters so far.

[silverfox1961]

Firstly, I do need to ask if you have taken advice from another forum. The sending of a s10 notice has come to light recently from a different forum and it is not normally something we would recommend as it serves no purpose as you did agree to the terms and conditions when you took out the contracts. As the account is terminated and not 'closed' as such, the processing of data is still legal.

As for demanding Lowell close the case. That's not going to happen. They may (as they have done) place the account on hold until the dispute is sorted and this is where you come in. They state that they have no knowledge of any dispute. You have the emails. VF seem to have erroneously placed the account as resolved when that was not the case.

 

I still recommend another SAR and this time mention that the last time you asked, they did not supply all the account info and this time to furnish you with all the relevant data. Failure to do so will result in further action by yourself.

 

Hopefully, Lowell will keep the account on hold long enough for you to get the SAR back but if they do file a claim, that's when you need to start getting all the evidence together.

[Poke The Bear]

Firstly, I do need to ask if you have taken advice from another forum.

 

 

No, the section 10 notice was sent at the same time as my complaint to the director's office, all before I posted here. At the time, I was so worked up over the damage to my credit file and the harassment from Fredricksons, that it was all I could think to do - tell them to stop processing my data and go away! In hindsight, I should have sought advice earlier.

 

 

Will get another SAR sent off on Mon.