Fare evasion/ Railcard fraud(?)

[ltmk]

I purchased a 16-25 return ticket to destination B from A, via an actual person at the window - even they looked at my travel card.

 

It wasn't until my return journey I looked at my rail card, to find it was out of date.. (Haven't used in around a month).

 

 

The date was printed "18 APR 2015" (I've just checked this online) The 18 was very faded with the 2015 being only slightly visible..

. My instant thought was "oh no, I'm going to get in some serious trouble for this",

I stupidly decided to get a pencil from my bag and change the year to 2016 (only visible numerals)

 

Upon ticket inspection, the inspector questioned the year, to which I just put my hands up straight away - of course he took details..

I admitted to this via a statement and made my sign this admission statement, whilst taking my railcard/ticket etc.

 

I know I'm in trouble and I'm not looking for sympathy,

I'm just trying to establish the LIKELY course of action..

. I presume they will write to me asking for my account of events?

 

 

My questions are:

 

1) The best possible situation is out of court settlement - ADVICE FOR THIS PLEASE?

How do go about asking this?

What would make them want to pick this?

Do I await correspondence and then send a letter with apologies

and an offer (should I make an actual offer or let them propose such)?

 

2) The scenario of them looking to prosecute for fraud - what's the likelihood of this?

I understand what I've done is fraudulent, however I haven't replicated/manufactured a ticket or pass in order to evade completely, somewhat mitigating?

IF it did go for this, what would be the probable outcomes?

 

Again, thank you all for your opinions and feedback

- you all seem to have a much more educated understanding of this sort than most, so I look forward to more input..

[p3t3r]

from reading other threads, it seems to be that if you offer them their administration costs along with an apology then they do not take legal action

[honeybee13]

So I purchased a 16-25 return ticket to destination B from A, via an actual person at the window - even they looked at my travel card.

 

It wasn't until my return journey I looked at my rail card, to find it was out of date.. (Haven't used in around a month). The date was printed "18 APR 2015" (I've just checked this online) The 18 was very faded with the 2015 being only slightly visible... My instant thought was "oh no, I'm going to get in some serious trouble for this", I stupidly decided to get a pencil from my bag and change the year to 2016 (only visible numerals)

 

Upon ticket inspection, the inspector questioned the year, to which I just put my hands up straight away - of course he took details.. I admitted to this via a statement and made my sign this admission statement, whilst taking my railcard/ticket etc.

 

I know I'm in trouble and I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm just trying to establish the LIKELY course of action... I presume they will write to me asking for my account of events? My questions are:

 

1) The best possible situation is out of court settlement - ADVICE FOR THIS PLEASE? How do go about asking this? What would make them want to pick this? Do I await correspondence and then send a letter with apologies and an offer (should I make an actual offer or let them propose such)?

 

2) The scenario of them looking to prosecute for fraud - what's the likelihood of this? I understand what I've done is fraudulent, however I haven't replicated/manufactured a ticket or pass in order to evade completely, somewhat mitigating? IF it did go for this, what would be the probable outcomes?

 

Again, thank you all for your opinions and feedback - you all seem to have a much more educated understanding of this sort than most, so I look forward to more input..

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

To try to start answering your questions.

 

1. An out of court settlement would mean you wouldn't get criminal record, depending on which offence they decide to pursue you for, if they follow this up.

 

No point writing at this stage, you need to await their letter. At that point, you come back here, tell us what the letter says and we'll help you with a response.

 

2. I don't know if this is serious or minor fraud if that's how they classify it. At best you bought a discount ticket that you weren't entitled to have and you would probably have been better to admit to this. I'm not sure what they're likely to do about the changed date.

 

Bear in mind if and when you write that they've heard all the excuses in the book, so you need to be honest and convincing.

 

I don't claim to be a rail expert, but I have followed this forum for a while. Hopefully some of the people with experience will turn up and advise you.

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

I see you've have a quite a lot of advice on another forum.

 

What are you hoping we might add please?

 

HB

[ltmk]

I see you've have a quite a lot of advice on another forum.

 

What are you hoping we might add please?

 

HB

 

Ahh yes I have also.

 

A perspective from a different 'group' of people. I only just discovered these forums and there are a few people here whose help here I would really appreciate - (I would ask them privately if that were an option)

 

No point writing at this stage, you need to await their letter. At that point, you come back here, tell us what the letter says and we'll help you with a response.

 

Also this. This would be something I would really appreciate.

 

I hope that this is okay...

[honeybee13]

Ahh yes I have also.

 

A perspective from a different 'group' of people. I only just discovered these forums and there are a few people here whose help here I would really appreciate - (I would ask them privately if that were an option)

 

 

 

Also this. This would be something I would really appreciate.

 

I hope that this is okay...

 

Hello again.

 

We don't do private advice here. Everyone here is a volunteer and gives their time freely. If you want private advice, you would need to pay a lawyer.

 

I suggest you wait until you have a letter and then come back to us for tailored advice. It would help to know which train company we're talking about.

 

HB

[ltmk]

Hello again.

 

We don't do private advice here. Everyone here is a volunteer and gives their time freely. If you want private advice, you would need to pay a lawyer.

 

I suggest you wait until you have a letter and then come back to us for tailored advice. It would help to know which train company we're talking about.

 

HB

 

Okay thank you...

 

It is East Midlands Trains, I'm presuming this process could take anything up to 4/5 weeks

[honeybee13]

Okay thank you...

 

It is East Midlands Trains, I'm presuming this process could take anything up to 4/5 weeks

 

Probably, yes. The rail guys usually quote 6 weeks or so.

 

HB

[Old-CodJA]

The date was printed "18 APR 2015" (I've just checked this online) The 18 was very faded with the 2015 being only slightly visible..

. My instant thought was "oh no, I'm going to get in some serious trouble for this",

I stupidly decided to get a pencil from my bag and change the year to 2016 (only visible numerals)

 

Upon ticket inspection, the inspector questioned the year, to which I just put my hands up straight away - of course he took details..

I admitted to this via a statement and made my sign this admission statement, whilst taking my railcard/ticket etc.

 

I know I'm in trouble and I'm not looking for sympathy,

I'm just trying to establish the LIKELY course of action.

 

 

As HB has said, you will receive a letter from the TOC asking for your version of events. You should reply promptly & truthfully, signing and dating your letter and get it back to them as soon after receipt of theirs as possible.

 

The TOC may be persuaded to allow an out of Court settlement, but that will be very much dependant upon your reply and how you deal with your offending. Be contrite & apologetic, offering to meet all the reasonably incurred costs and unpaid fares that arise from your actions

 

As for likely course of action by the TOC, it is most likely that this will be reported as an attempt to avoid payment of the fare due contrary to Section 5(3) of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

 

The TOC will likely issue a Summons for the matter to be heard by a Magistrates Court.

[ltmk]

Thank you OC and HB... I shall wait for the letter.

 

 

One person in particular has 'advised' me to send a letter ASAP, with apologies and insinuating my intention to clear their costs, starting off enclosing a cheque for the full fare.

 

What is your opinion on this?

[honeybee13]

As per posts #6 and #9.

 

HB

[ltmk]

As per posts #6 and #9.

 

HB

 

Would not even sending an initial email to just apologise be of benefit? Or do those points still stand?

 

Dear Prosecutions team,

 

I'm writing to you to follow up an incident that happened on 28/4. An inspector questioned my defaced and expired railcard, to which I instantly admitted guilt to - my details were handed over and I have been advised to await correspondence.

 

I wanted to take this opportunity to express my unreserved apologies to yourselves and the entirety of East Midlands Trains. I have had time to think about my actions - for which I extremely regret. I was extremely foolish, idiotic and naive and my 'spur of the moment' actions cannot be justified at all, because of which I am experiencing a huge amount of stress and sleepless nights. I am extremely sorry for what I have done; evading fares is unacceptable and something I would never dream of committing again.

 

I have never committed such stupidity before - I am a relatively frequent user of your service and petrified by the detrimental effect this may have on the continued use of your service and also my future career. I am a student looking to establish myself on the corporate ladder (I have even applied recently for a EMT position) and a conviction as such will hinder me completely.

 

Again I am extremely sorry. I wanted to express my apologies and also my intent to rectify this anyway I can.

 

I look forward to hearing from you,

[BazzaS]

Would not even sending an initial email to just apologise be of benefit? Or do those points still stand?

 

I concur with the advice already offered to await "the letter", and then reply.

 

1) You'll know what they are asking for, and potentially what you face,

2) A reply now may not get through to the correct team,

3) Even if a reply now does get through to the correct team, how will they link it "to your file" if you don't supply the reference number that will be on the letter they send you.

 

These (and other) reasons are why the advice usually given is "wait for the letter".

If you are set on sending them a letter or e-mail without waiting for their letter, I can't stop you, and you seem set on doing so (or at least you keep asking about it, when others have already advised against).

It is only advice, and you don't have to take it, but it is advice given with good reasons behind it.

[ltmk]

I concur with the advice already offered to await "the letter", and then reply.

 

1) You'll know what they are asking for, and potentially what you face,

2) A reply now may not get through to the correct team,

3) Even if a reply now does get through to the correct team, how will they link it "to your file" if you don't supply the reference number that will be on the letter they send you.

 

These (and other) reasons are why the advice usually given is "wait for the letter".

If you are set on sending them a letter or e-mail without waiting for their letter, I can't stop you, and you seem set on doing so (or at least you keep asking about it, when others have already advised against).

It is only advice, and you don't have to take it, but it advice given with reasons.

 

 

Okay thank you. I will wait before replying.

 

As you can tell I'm just desperate to resolve the issue. It's a burden on my shoulders and I have absolutely no get up throughout the day. It's miserable.

[ltmk]

So the letter has come...

 

So I've been invited to go for an interview. They have highlighted the fact I have travelled under the offence of the following Byelaw.

 

In that you did, in an area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, enter a train for the purpose of travelling without a valid ticket entitling you to do so: BL 18(1)

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

So they haven't decided to go to court yet. If we can get you some help on how to handle the interview, you have hope.

 

How long do you have to prepare please?

 

HB

[ltmk]

Hey hb... I have 2 weeks

[honeybee13]

Okies, that's a good amount of time.

 

Let's see who pops in over the next couple of days and if you don't have enough information by early next week, I'll send a couple of SOSs.

 

HB

[firstclassx]

You can take a solicitor if you wish, it will be an interview under caution.

 

You are under no obligation to say anything. You can go "no comment". You can bring in a prepared statement.

 

BUT, if they have you bang to rights, as seems to be the case:

 

You should attend, make sure you are dressed appropriately. Look and act professional.

You should be completely open and honest, apologetic when necessary. Make sure any mitigation isn't likely to be viewed as "excuses". Providing concise, accurate answers, which are simple to say and understand are beneficial.

 

Don't waffle, don't say too much, don't try and talk your way out of a situation.

 

A good prosecutor does not ask a question that they are not already fairly confident that they know the answer to.

 

I'd also withdraw a few quid from the bank, cash, and have it in your pocket, in the event you reach a "successful conclusion" at the end, and you need to pay their "administrative fees".

[ltmk]

You can take a solicitor if you wish, it will be an interview under caution.

 

You are under no obligation to say anything. You can go "no comment". You can bring in a prepared statement.

 

BUT, if they have you bang to rights, as seems to be the case:

 

You should attend, make sure you are dressed appropriately. Look and act professional.

You should be completely open and honest, apologetic when necessary. Make sure any mitigation isn't likely to be viewed as "excuses". Providing concise, accurate answers, which are simple to say and understand are beneficial.

 

Don't waffle, don't say too much, don't try and talk your way out of a situation.

 

A good prosecutor does not ask a question that they are not already fairly confident that they know the answer to.

 

I'd also withdraw a few quid from the bank, cash, and have it in your pocket, in the event you reach a "successful conclusion" at the end, and you need to pay their "administrative fees".

 

Thank you very much for your insights and advice.

 

In a nutshell be honest and show remorse - I presume this a suit + tie interview (excuse my student-ness). How much do you recommend I take with me?

[firstclassx]

Yes, look smart and professional.

 

Some settlements are £100, others £1000s.... I suspect a settlement in a case of deliberate fraud, bang to rights, requiring a time consuming interview may require an amount around £250-£500.

[ltmk]

Hi all,

 

I have my meeting with EMT tomorrow - I am rather anxious (as per my character) and due to the nature of the situation.

 

Last minute reach out for help - is there anything I should bear in mind/prepare for?

 

Thank you all

[firstclassx]

Just act and look professional. Remember that a good prosector will not ask a question they do not already know the answer to, so be honest.

[dx100uk]

how'd it go?

 

 

dx