Hired surfing kit, not returned. Please help

[unclebulgaria67]

@unclebulgaria67

I dont think my friend told me any joke. It would be a cruel joke.

Police have my name as my friend told me. Although I didnt provide it, they could find it out through my email address or number phone. But I dont think they have my ID card. Anyway you think what I did is serious enough to put me in the "blacklist" of airport passport control?.

Maybe what you say could be a solution. I dont know.

What did you mean with trying and hiring a car in the future?

 

I doubt the Police attended the address. In the UK it is difficult to get them to investigate, because they don't have the resources.

 

No you won't be on some arrest list or black list. They have enough problems having terrorists and serious criminals missing from lists.

 

I never mentioned about hiring a car. That would not be a problem either.

[cuco]

@unclebulgaria 67 thank you very much for your help and assistance. If I would be in the blacklist of airport passport control is one of the most important doubts for me.

I am sorry, I have just realised that was @citizenkain who said hiring a car.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

How did you hire the kit without giving tour name and address etc?

[unclebulgaria67]

@unclebulgaria 67 thank you very much for your help and assistance. If I would be in the blacklist of airport passport control is one of the most important doubts for me.

I am sorry, I have just realised that was @citizenkain who said hiring a car.

 

The only people who appear on watch lists at airports are those who are a danger to the state. I don't think someone who did not return some hired items, would be considered dangerous.

 

I doubt that the Police have you on a list either.

[cuco]

@unclebulgaria67 Thank you very much. I do appreciate your help and time.

[cuco]

@grumpytosaytheleast I dont know. He just asked me my email address, address and number phone

[dx100uk]

go get onwith your life

 

you did wrong..it/s over now

 

they would either have claimed oninsurance

or writtenthe loss off

 

nothgingbad can/has happened

 

end of the matter

 

time for everyone tomove on

 

dx

[cuco]

@dx100uk Thank you very much. Some of you say one thing, some a diferent thing... Anyway thank for your time and help.

[BazzaS]

The only people who appear on watch lists at airports are those who are a danger to the state. I don't think someone who did not return some hired items, would be considered dangerous.

 

I doubt that the Police have you on a list either.

 

Incorrect, re: watch lists only for "danger to the state", see my previous post.

If you are "a danger to the state" it is more likely that you'll never make it onto the plane in the first place..... There are "no fly" lists, especially for travel to the USA.

 

How can I demonstrate it is incorrect to say "The only people who appear on watch lists at airports are those who are a danger to the state."?

The UKBA will prevent a foreign national subject to immigration control from re-entering the UK if an NHS trust has registered them as having not paid a debt for treatment.

This isn't even due to a criminal matter (e.g. an outstanding warrant for arrest), but for a civil debt (albeit a civil debt to the NHS / the state)

 

This is currently in operation (I know someone whose role for an NHS hospital trust includes registering such debts with the UKBA, who gets feedback from UKBA when a debtor has been stopped at the border, as they get the call telling them it has been paid / putting them through to pay!)

 

If they can do this for civil debts, they can (and do) do so for an outstanding arrest warrant. If you have an outstanding arrest warrant showing, they will stop you at the border and call the police. If it is a "no bail" warrant : you will be held until brought before the court.

If the UKBA or police are aware of a "no bail" arrest warrant, they'll enforce it (rather than risking being in contempt of court if it can be shown they knew and ignored it).

 

If the UKBA have a register of NHS debtors to be stopped, it isn't hard to see they can have a list of those with outstanding arrest warrants, rather than just people who are "a danger to the state".

[unclebulgaria67]

Incorrect, re: watch lists only for "danger to the state", see my previous post.

If you are "a danger to the state" it is more likely that you'll never make it onto the plane in the first place..... There are "no fly" lists, especially for travel to the USA.

 

How can I demonstrate it is incorrect to say "The only people who appear on watch lists at airports are those who are a danger to the state."?

The UKBA will prevent a foreign national subject to immigration control from re-entering the UK if an NHS trust has registered them as having not paid a debt for treatment.

This isn't even due to a criminal matter (e.g. an outstanding warrant for arrest), but for a civil debt (albeit a civil debt to the NHS / the state)

 

This is currently in operation (I know someone whose role for an NHS hospital trust includes registering such debts with the UKBA, who gets feedback from UKBA when a debtor has been stopped at the border, as they get the call telling them it has been paid / putting them through to pay!)

 

If they can do this for civil debts, they can (and do) do so for an outstanding arrest warrant. If you have an outstanding arrest warrant showing, they will stop you at the border and call the police. If it is a "no bail" warrant : you will be held until brought before the court.

If the UKBA or police are aware of a "no bail" arrest warrant, they'll enforce it (rather than risking being in contempt of court if it can be shown they knew and ignored it).

 

If the UKBA have a register of NHS debtors to be stopped, it isn't hard to see they can have a list of those with outstanding arrest warrants, rather than just people who are "a danger to the state".

 

Not sure you are correct Bazza.

 

An escaped prisoner has only just been found on the Gold Cost in Australia after a number of years.

 

I don't think there are many checks at borders, beyond what is flagged up against passports. I think it is only serious issues that get flagged. The NHS does not often chase foreign citizens for the treatment they have received, which received some criticism from a parliamentary select committee.

[BazzaS]

Not sure you are correct Bazza.

 

An escaped prisoner has only just been found on the Gold Cost in Australia after a number of years.

 

I don't think there are many checks at borders, beyond what is flagged up against passports. I think it is only serious issues that get flagged. The NHS does not often chase foreign citizens for the treatment they have received, which received some criticism from a parliamentary select committee.

 

Escaped prisoner? Using false ID, if it is the case I'm aware of (pre-release from prison on license, absconded from a cat D UK prison).

False ID to cross borders brings its own hazards of being caught, but would avoid any list based on name.

 

The OP on this thread hasn't (yet?) talked about using a passport other than their own, so I think the "false passport" aspect is a red herring.

 

The NHS used not to vigorously chase foreign nationals and was criticised for it.

The registration of debts of foreign nationals exceeding £1000 to the UKBA is one of the measures to correct this.

 

It IS being done. I know the person who files the info to UKBA for a major trust, and takes payment when people are stopped at the border to then allow UKBA to permit them entry.

 

Since my word hasnt yet persuaded you, though you haven't actually come out & said I'm wrong:

 

http://lifeintheuk.net/index.php/news/nhs_debtors_to_face_restrictions_on_immigration

 

http://www.ilpa.org.uk/data/resources/14137/12.01-General-Grounds-for-Refusal-NHS-Charges.pdf

 

http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/migration-pulse/2011/immigration-applications-nhs-debtors-can-now-be-refused-how-do-we-manage-public

 

So, there are webpages saying it can be done.

I know of it being done via one the individuals who registers the debtors and deals with their sudden desire to pay when held at the border.

So, do you have any other basis on which to dispute that the UKBA holds a list of registered (civil) debtors to the NHS and screens arrivals against that list?

 

So, my point remains : they screen (and will deny entry) to those on a list of NHS (civil) foreign national Debtors.

They thus can (and I'm sure they do!) screen for outstanding arrest warrants.

[unclebulgaria67]

I just don't think that many people get listed for attention at borders, apart from people who have committed serious offences or who are under an arrest warrant.

 

The OP did not give any ID for the hire. Just name, temp holiday address, phone number and email address. Not enough for the Police to put on some list at all ports.

[cuco]

I think as unclebulgaria67. I dont think anypeople is in the list. Would be a person who, for example, fought with another one (nothing serious)? Maybe it is as you said. I dont know how the uk system works.

At least in Spain is this way. In the list just appear people who have done something serious (kill, drugs and thinks like that)

@unclebulgaria67 maybe they could find out my name, through my email address or number phone. But I dont think they have my ID card at all.

[renegadeimp]

if they dont know who you are, then nothing will happen. You are starting to deal with what if's instead of facts, and dont seem to have taken any advice in this thread seriously. You seem to be looking for a way out and to get away with it, rather than actually contact them and see what they say.

[cuco]

@renegadeimp what do you mean with get away with it? not go to prison or keep the stuff? If it is the second, I would like to remember you that I dont have the stuff.

I say again: It's not so easy. If I contact the owner and see what he says, probably It would be worst for me. I could be given valious information or reasons to reactivate the case. Besides, probably I wouldnt have enough money to pay. It's not so simple

[BazzaS]

@renegadeimp what do you mean with get away with it? not go to prison or keep the stuff? If it is the second, I would like to remember you that I dont have the stuff.

I say again: It's not so easy. If I contact the owner and see what he says, probably It would be worst for me. I could be given valious information or reasons to reactivate the case. Besides, probably I wouldnt have enough money to pay. It's not so simple

 

Still looking for excuses?

"I don't have the stuff" : irrelevant. You didn't hand it back, and it was thus your responsibility. It doesn't matter if you no longer have it, you still deprived its lawful owner of it / their rental income from it.

 

"I wouldn't have enough money to pay it back" : should have gone to the trouble of returning it then .......

 

BTW, this isn't trying to be judgmental, but instead pointing out why the OP's protestations aren't valid excuses for either the original theft, or for their inaction / failure to make reparation since.

[unclebulgaria67]

@renegadeimp what do you mean with get away with it? not go to prison or keep the stuff? If it is the second, I would like to remember you that I dont have the stuff.

I say again: It's not so easy. If I contact the owner and see what he says, probably It would be worst for me. I could be given valious information or reasons to reactivate the case. Besides, probably I wouldnt have enough money to pay. It's not so simple

 

Just forget about it. If they had your email address, surely they would have contacted you about it.

 

As I said previously, it makes sense that the surf hire shop people went to the house to recover their kit. Your friends when asked about it, would have given

it to them. This might be why you have not received an email, because the shop got their kit back.

 

I presume you have not been in contact with your friends to know whether this happened or not ?

[cuco]

Are you saying that is irrelevant if I have the stuff or not?? How would you give back the stuff without them??

Yes, I know that I didnt hand it back, but I dont have any "time machine".

Thank you anyway for your help.

[cuco]

@unclebulgaria67. My friends told me that they didnt give back the stuff, so the owner didnt get his kit back. What I'm thinking is that these kind of shop use to have an insurance for this kind of cases and the insurance company would have could pay to him. Thus, the shop owner and police would have forgotten the case (and they would not send me any email). What do you think about this?

[unclebulgaria67]

Are you saying that is irrelevant if I have the stuff or not?? How would you give back the stuff without them??

Yes, I know that I didnt hand it back, but I dont have any "time machine".

Thank you anyway for your help.

 

Not irrelevant. If you took the kit on purpose, that is theft. If you left it in a house, where the shop could recover it, then it could be argued that you breached the hire contract by not returning the kit, but did not purposely steal the kit.

 

There is NO point continuing this discussion. You either just forget about it or you contact the surf hire shop to make enquiries. That is up to you ! The surf hire shop may no longer be in business, as sometimes these companies don't last too long.

[BazzaS]

Are you saying that is irrelevant if I have the stuff or not?? How would you give back the stuff without them??

Yes, I know that I didnt hand it back, but I dont have any "time machine".

Thank you anyway for your help.

 

You can't claim "I can't do anything about it, as I don't have the stuff". Either give the stuff back and make up their losses, or pay them back more to make up for the items and their losses. Not having the items any more doesn't absolve you of responsibility, it just means you have to find a different way to make up for your actions than handing the items back.

 

Are you really claiming "not having a time machine" lets you off the hook?. The whole underlying point is you taking responsibility for your actions.

Just because you don't have a time machine and don't have the items, and claim poverty, and you never seem to accept responsibility, doesn't mean that you can say "nothing I can do about it, time machines haven't been invented, I don't have the items, it wasn't my fault"

 

You've had options suggested where you can take responsibility for your actions and do the right thing, but that is not what you were hoping to hear, apparently.

[cuco]

@unclebulgaria67 For the record, the surf hire shop had hundreds of surfboards, wetsuits, gloves and slippers.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cuco

[BazzaS]

@unclebulgaria67. My friends told me that they didnt give back the stuff, so the owner didnt get his kit back. What I'm thinking is that these kind of shop use to have an insurance for this kind of cases and the insurance company would have could pay to him. Thus, the shop owner and police would have forgotten the case (and they would not send me any email). What do you think about this?

 

Great!. I take it you have home insurance?

Can you let me know when it'd be OK for me to come round and remove all your belongings? After all, they are insured, so it doesn't really matter if I do that (at least .. that seems to be what you are suggesting).

 

If you don't have home insurance, it'd still be OK, wouldn't it?. After all, I couldn't possibly be a thief for doing so, so it would have to be your fault for not having insurance ...

My point being ... you are still looking for excuses, rather than taking responsibility for your actions.

 

Returning to the business likely being insured: What about any policy excess that the store had to pay?. What about the increased policy charges all businesses end up paying.

 

You seem to be making this out to be a "victimless crime".... it wasn't.

It was still a crime, and there were victims.

[cuco]

You can't claim "I can't do anything about it, as I don't have the stuff". Either give the stuff back and make up their losses, or pay them back more to make up for the items and their losses. Not having the items any more doesn't absolve you of responsibility, it just means you have to find a different way to make up for your actions than handing the items back.

 

Are you really claiming "not having a time machine" lets you off the hook?. The whole underlying point is you taking responsibility for your actions.

Just because you don't have a time machine and don't have the items, and claim poverty, and you never seem to accept responsibility, doesn't mean that you can say "nothing I can do about it, time machines haven't been invented, I don't have the items, it wasn't my fault"

 

You've had options suggested where you can take responsibility for your actions and do the right thing, but that is not what you were hoping to hear, apparently.

 

 

What I was hoping to hear is the answers for the questions that I asked at first.

[dx100uk]

I think we are going to close this thread if things continue

 

 

they've done nowt to date

 

 

they'd have claimed on their ins if they had wanted to or did anyway

 

 

IMHO as many people have said

bar those that are trying to scare the OP into nasty things that might happen

'because' you 'stole' something

 

 

nowt has happened and its time to put it to bed.

 

 

dx

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