Council refusing to back date council tax deduction to 1st April

[physicsgraduate]

I applied last year in November but the letter went missing and so I applied again online. It's been backdated to mid-July.

 

I have written to them giving them good reason why I was late in applying for this, mainly because I didn't realise I had to. If they are going to send a bill for the full amount at the start of the year before I have earned anything as a first time sole trader then surely it was dealt on the basis that we would all wait until my earnings were clearer before any adjustments?

 

Anyway, I'm thinking about writing to them and Scot & C. saying that I am withholding any further payment until they rectify this. How far is that likely to get me?

 

I have also told them that irrespective of whether they backdate it I will not be paying them any more than I owe and they can take me to court and dispute the amount if they disagree.

[impecunious]

Have your Council asked you to complete a Self Employed assessment form? (Assuming as a sole trader, you are self-employed)

 

 

When I embarked on setting up a small new business 16 months ago after being unemployed for almost a year and claiming JSA, I was penniless and not able to draw any wages. NEA helped for 6 months but that barely even covered day-to-day living. I was forced to continue my claim for Housing Benefit and Council Tax Reduction and am now eligible for WTC because my business is not breaking even.

 

 

Completing a Self-Employment form will allow the council to determine your income from your self-employment (if any) and you may be eligible for HB and CTR.

 

 

Worth checking it out.

 

 

 

 

Impecunious

[physicsgraduate]

Yes I have been filling these in every three months since I started sole trading. I have done this through my housing agency, who up until now have sorted out my housing benefit and council tax for me. Only this year I had to do my own council tax apparently.

[ericsbrother]

You can appeal their decision and they will look at it again. Normally 6 months backdating is conceded and rarely a year. If they still wont allow your appeal you can go to a tribunal. If you can show that you did write to them in november there is a good chance that the 6months backdate will be decided from that date but I must say as they have chosen a date in July the council have backdated it 6 months from your new application so they have taken your circumstances into account so it will all boil down as to whether the tribunal believe it is likely that you did apply in Nov and then as to why you left it another 3 months before chasing up.

[physicsgraduate]

I'm thinking of just writing to them and saying any further payment withheld until proper amount calculated. Dispute the amount. If I think they amount they are charging me is wrong then I have a right to dispute it, right? Let them take me to court and let a judge decide, or just backdate it to April.

[Mr.P]

Before you withhold payments for Council Tax, take a look at some of the other threads, particularly the ones in the bailiffs section. Withholding payments could see a Liability Order being applied for and granted, followed by bailiff enforcement. This could very quickly end up costing you up to £500 extra.

 

It is much easier to maintain payments and pursue any dispute through the appropriate channels. If need be, take the complaint up with a local councillor and/or your MP.

[physicsgraduate]

As far as I am concerned they will be getting no more than owed anyway, the difference being 100-150. Are they going to take me to court for that? I doubt it. I just want to stand up t them, and the government. So they slap another 500 on top and I carry on paying my dues anyway, what difference does it make. At least I will have stood up to them. More people need to.

[id6052]

they will take you to court for £100 to £150.

 

most will take you to count for less than that and then will add on additional costs which means you owe more

[ploddertom]

Some Councils have obtained Liabilty Orders in the past for just 1p - adding up to £150 in costs for doing so. The process for obtaining LO's is pretty much automatic.

[physicsgraduate]

Ruthless

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

So what would you do if someone owed you a penny? Write it off?

How about if 100,000 people owed you a penny each? Would you write that off or would you like your £1000?

How about 64 million people in the UK withheld a penny? Whether its a penny, a pound, or £100, they will chase you for it.

[physicsgraduate]

Yeah I'd write it off. It's just a penny?

 

As far as I'm concerned I don't owe them anything in the first place.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

So you would write off £1000 too?

 

Personally I'm happy that the chase for it whether its a point or £100 or £1000. But, i dont agree with debtors being charged silly sums to collect the 1p. There needs to be a simple solution to that but people out there will fight tooth and nail to avoid paying so the easy option has been dismissed in favour of one enforcement procedure when debtors ignore the warnings.

[physicsgraduate]

It's not a thousand though is it, it's a penny. In perspective against what they are taking from people overall it's a drop in the ocean, even if a thousand people owe them a penny. It's a small fraction of what I hypothetically just paid them.

[ericsbrother]

I would use the procedures and register a formal dispute and get it looked at again and then pass it through the Tribunals system. This all takes time, normally more than 6 months but if you are right then you get your refund and more importantly the satisfaction of seeing your local council Council Tax officers humbled and often torn off a strip. The result gets publiched so if the council is wrong it is a public humiliation for anyone to see.

Dont withold your payment, even if they are currently wrong as they will use the process to make you pay a damed sight more than you owe and that can affect your future. By using the appeals system you make them do the work, produce the figures and justify themselves. They will have to provide you with their calculations so if they are wrong you cam make them look silly and have grounds for another complaint, which will be publicly logged.

[physicsgraduate]

So what do I do just write to them, or is there another form to fill in?

[ploddertom]

Why not think about involving your local Councillor(s), if they refuse or are reluctant then go straight to the Leader of the Council & his/her opposite number.

[outlawla]

So what would you do if someone owed you a penny? Write it off?

How about if 100,000 people owed you a penny each? Would you write that off or would you like your £1000?

How about 64 million people in the UK withheld a penny? Whether its a penny, a pound, or £100, they will chase you for it.

 

What planet are you inhabiting?

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

What planet are you inhabiting?

 

Excuse me? Evidently not the same as......

Never mind I got told off the last time I got sucked into a silly little argument so ill refrain on this occasion. I hope you have a wonderful day.

[ericsbrother]

The next stage is to write a complaint and address it to the Head of Council Tax as a stage 2 complaint. You may well get sent a form to fill in if they reject your complaint and that will be the form you need to go to the tribunal. They are obliged to then reconsider before the paperwork is forwarded. It is my experience that they will delay sending the form off if at all possible so keep an eye on the dates.

[id6052]

physicsgraduate

 

if you are not happy with the Council's decision there are 2 steps to the appeal process

 

step 1 - submit a "grievance" to the Council explaining why you disagree with the decision

the council then has 2 months to review your case and respond to your grievance

the response will either be to maintain their decision or provide a new one (this could be better or worse than the original)

 

step 2 - appeal to a Valuation Tribunal (these are independent of the Council)

an appeal must be made within 2 months of you receiving the Council's response to your grievance

if the Council fails to respond to your grievance within 2 months, you can appeal directly to the Valuation Tribunal at any point between 2 months and 4 months from the date you lodged your grievance

 

further information about VT appeals can be found on their website

http://www.valuationtribunal.gov.uk/Libraries/Guidance_Notes/CTR_Appeal.sflb.ashx

[physicsgraduate]

Great thanks will do that. can I also put in a grievance about the council's failure to notify me of building work recently that went on for weeks?

[id6052]

the grievance and valuation tribunal processes relate to CTR decisions

 

for the building work issue, i would follow the complaints procedure - this should be available on their website

[physicsgraduate]

Will do. I already complained but probably not through the correct procedure. had some guy at my door and received an email but no apology or acknowledgment of wrongdoing. They really did inconvenience me and they should have informed me. So what's my chances of getting some compo? Might help clear my 'debt' with them.

[ericsbrother]

Compo? none whatsoever, you can only be put into the position you would have been in if they had done things properly at the time.