PCN at Local Hospital - Parking Eye

[daft as a brush]

Hi everyone

Can you advise please? I parked my car in a Hospital car park and didn't pay for parking which was a total misunderstanding on my part - you used to stop at the barrier collect a ticket and pay for parking inside the hospital, put the ticket into the exit barrier the barrier lifts - job done. On this occasion I drove up to the barrier which was already up the machine didn't offer a ticket, I guessed it was faulty so parked went into the hospital, returned after visiting and drove out as the exit barrier was also up.

I received a PCN from Parking Eye - wrote to them to explain the faulty barrier situation, they rejected my appeal I wrote to them again and they rejected it again. Now received a Court Summons for £145 - any ideas please?

I phoned Parking Eye, by the way, and they advised that the Parking Eye system had been installed a few months earlier but they hadn't removed the barriers which was why I never noticed the signs and had no reason to believe the system had changed.

[DragonFly1967]

Do you have any or all of the paperwork that you've received from ParkingLie to hand?

 

When they rejected your appeal, did they supply you with a POPLA code? That'll be a 10 digit code and should be somewhere on the appeal rejection letter? It's too late for an appeal to POPLA now, but we'd need to know whether or not they did supply you with one, as to not do so would be a breach of protocol, a breach of the BPA CoP for AOS members, and would render any court proceedings even more difficult for them to win (it'll be hard enough for them to win as it is (despite what they'd have everyone believe by looking at their website)).

 

As regards the court summons, when did you receive this as strict time constraints apply to your response.

 

 

 

For reference: If you don't know what most of the acronyms used mean, there is a handy guide in this post: Click Here

[daft as a brush]

Hi - thanks for responding so quickly. I do have a POPLA reference and the reason I didn't appeal to POPLA was because in the Parking Eye letter states if I appeal to POPLA and I am unsuccessful then I would have to pay the full amount. I had been trying to contact Parking Eye (who are very difficult to make contact with) in order to check whether the barriers were faulty on the day in question. I eventually got to speak to someone as the hospital gave a direct number and Parking Eye advised the system had been installed a few months earlier and that signs are up. I certainly didn't notice them

I received the Court Papers on Saturday 25th October.

[Cardiff Devil]

For future reference POPLA's decision is not binding on the appelant in any way, so you'd be under no obligation to pay anything even if you lost the appeal.

 

Irrelevant now though, first things first. Are the court papers genuine? They should have a court stamp and a case number on them. It's not unheard of for companies to send out fake forms or ones marked as "DRAFT" in order to scare people.

 

If they are genuine, you'll need to file an acknowledgement of service, indicating that you intend to defend the claim in full. This gives you extra time to compile and submit a defence.

[DragonFly1967]

Yes, ParkingLie will tell you all sorts of things to try and pull the wool over your eyes and put you off using the system.

 

The truth of the matter is that a properly worded appeal to POPLA rarely fails, but that's by the by now as you're past that stage.

 

 

I must admit that I've not had, as yet, any experience of responding to court papers, as I can't get my pet parking company (not ParkingLie) to take me to court, and god knows I've tried my hardest but rest assured, someone will be along at some point that knows the ins and outs of the court system, and will advise you of the correct course of action to follow.

 

I do know that there's no great rush. You have 14 days to respond to say that you'll be defending in full, and then with a properly worded defence, there's a good chance that ParkingLie will drop the case rather than face a defeat in court.

 

Again, contrary to what ParkingLie would have us believe, the vast majority of the court cases that they've "won" have been by default or where the defence has been ill prepared.

 

 

Most of all though, to coin a phrase from Hitchhikers.... "DO NOT PANIC"

[daft as a brush]

Thanks Cardiff Devil and Dragonfly1967.

I'll dispute the claim - not sure what my defence will be though as I think on the face of it they have me. I'll probably take a trip up there and have a look at the barriers and notices, take same pics that sort of thing - just in case.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated

[Cardiff Devil]

They don't have any kind of claim against you, they're just chancing their hand. Having written to them several times in appeals you will have inevitably identified yourself to them as the driver. This generally isn't advisable but what's done is done now, and it's not necessarily critical. These kinds of claims can be easily defended, but we'll get to that in good time.

 

What are the current parking conditions on the car park? If there's no entrance/exit barrier now is it pay and display or free up to a certain time limit etc? Also ideally we'd need to know what the initial ticket was for, e.g not buying a ticket / parking in an incorrect bay / overstaying etc?

[DragonFly1967]

If "they have you" at all, the maximum that they have you for is what it would have cost you to park there at that time, and for the duration that you parked. Plus perhaps the £2.50 fee that they've paid to the DVLA to obtain the keepers details (and even that's debatable) and not a penny more.

 

Your defence (and someone far better than I will be able to help you with this) will come down to what, if anything, ParkingLie have actually lost by your vehicle being parked on site. If you didn't pay for parking, that will be the price that you should have paid plus (arguably) the DVLA fee. Anything over and above that, ie the remainder of the cost (for the PCN) that they are attempting to charge you is a penalty, and they aren't allowed to charge you those.

[daft as a brush]

Yes I know too honest for my own good.

Particulars of Claim - Claim for monies outstanding from the defendant in relation to a Parking Charge (blah blah blah) ... parking on private land in breach of Parking Eye's T&C ...(blah blah blah ) captured entering and leaving with a valid paid parking ticket......

I feel such a crim!

[daft as a brush]

What about their solicitors costs and the court fee?

I bet they can still be awarded that - what do you think?

[Cardiff Devil]

So the "offence" is that you didn't pay and display. As DF said the most this would have cost them would be the cost of the P&D ticket plus a few quid for their costs. £145 is clearly a penalty and any reasonable DJ would see right through that. Parking Eye have lost several cases in court on the genuine pre-estimate of loss (or GPEOL) defence. That's not the only defence you can use, of course. Parking Prankster's website has tons of good information specifically aimed at fighting Parking Eye in court. Have a look there.

 

They would only be able to claim reasonable costs if they win, and even then it would be at the judge's discretion. Also, legal fees in the small claims court are capped so as to make it fair for Joe Public to be able to take on massive companies like Microsoft or Apple without fear of getting slapped with a huge legal bill if they lost.

[DragonFly1967]

I feel such a crim!

I strongly suggest that you immediately pack a toothbrush and hand yourself in at your nearest prison so that you may be dealt with.

 

 

However, on the other hand, you could choose to not kowtow to these bullies and instead fight them every step of the way. As I said, with a properly worded defence there's a high likelihood of you winning in court, and even if the worst happens and you lose, there's no CCJ unless you decide not to pay up.

[DragonFly1967]

What about their solicitors costs and the court fee?

I bet they can still be awarded that - what do you think?

 

If (and it's a big IF) you lost, the very most that you'd have to pay would be £235. Possibly slightly lower depending on how they've worked out their figures.

 

If you lost, there'd be the original price of the PCN, plus £50 solicitors costs, plus £25 for filing the case with MCOL, and perhaps a £30(ish) listing fee. But that's the limit.

[daft as a brush]

Thanks for all your advice - I'll fight it and let you know how I get on - I may be back in touch for a little more help if that's OK.

Keep up the good work

[Cardiff Devil]

That's fine. ASK US FIRST if you're not sure about anything. If you do go to court ill-prepared and with a "cut & paste" defence that you don't fully understand, you're likely to get tripped up.

[honeybee13]

Hi guys. Have we established that this is a *real* claim form? I'm not sure I saw that, but I've been out and am catching up.

 

HB

[Cardiff Devil]

Hi HB, I did ask that question in post #4.

[honeybee13]

Hi HB, I did ask that question in post #4.

 

Sorry, I know you did, but I didn't see an answer which is why I thought it was worth asking again.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

You need to respond to the claim by sending back the acknowledgement of service with the box ticked saying you intend to defend the claim in full.

Pos up the wording of their claim exactly as they have written it, their wording has varied over time so we need to know whether they mention commercial justification or PE V Beavis & Wardley case.

Also, get your employment contract out and see if there is anything in there that says you have to pay a third party (PE) to use the parking facilities. If not you can claim that you are the "occupier" of the land and thus claim supremacy of contract (your employment trumps their contract)

[Cardiff Devil]

I think the OP mentioned in the original post that they were a visitor to the hospital, not staff.

[ericsbrother]

Sorry, so many PE problems at hospitals it is difficult to keep track. The first part of my posting still remains so tell us what they say in the POC