n245 variation order dismissed by judge

[deeplydebty]

My wife and I lost a county court claim as joint defendants and have been ordered to pay £2800 forthwith. We don't have it and a debt charity has gone through our figures and said run, sorry, offer £1 a month token payment because you are living on credit cards.

 

We are trying to fill in an N245 application for variation but I am a little stuck.

 

We have one source of income, my Wife's self employment, which we both work within and share the childcare responsibilities, so effectively I have no income of my own save for the child tax credits that are awarded to both of us (I do not claim unemployment). Our income goes into a joint account and all living expenses and payments come from the same account.

 

There is only one claim number so do we fill in one N245 in both our names or two with the same income/outgoings or two with my figures as zero? Do we have to pay one or two fees?

 

I've looked at ex160a to see if we qualify for fee remission. We meet the gross income part but I'm not sure if our endowment policy counts as disposable capital for what it's worth.

 

Any help would be lovely, thanks

[AndyOrch]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

One claim number ...one N245 ...joint income and out goings.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[deeplydebty]

Thanks Andy,

so I just fill the name in as Mr & Mrs ...?

[AndyOrch]

Yes as joint defendants.

[deeplydebty]

Thanks. If it all goes well I may not need further advice... for now.

[deeplydebty]

Had a civil case and lost with the judge ordering me to pay loads within 14 days.

 

Sent in N245 variation request complete with tax returns showing my losses, bank statements showing my constant overdrafts and the stepchange printout detailing all my credit card debts.

 

Judge decided that the application for instalments be dismissed on the basis that the judgement sum cannot be paid within a reasonable time. (I did tell the creditor I had no money but he didn't believe me)

 

I really have nothing I can sell and no-one I can borrow from (who'd lend me anything) so now I am worried that bailiffs will be knocking on the door scaring the kids and adding even more on top of a debt that I can't pay.

 

I've tried to get some legal advice for free but no-one can offer any advice.

 

Help...please....

[sequenci]

Hello there,

 

Do you own a property?

[DuffNCustard]

I'd sit tight and see what your creditor does next. I'm not a legal expert but its doubtful that another judge would overturn this decision. You can't pay what you haven't got, do you own your own home? Technically sounds like you are bankrupt, might be a good thing to read up on the pros and cons of BR but your home is at risk if you own it.

[deeplydebty]

Thanks for the speedy replies. We do own our own home but also have a second charge on it so the equity isn't huge. It's the bailiff part that worries me the most.

[DuffNCustard]

Your creditor would need to go back to court to request enforcement of the judgement before bailiffs are anywhere near your home so I wouldn't get in too much of a sweat about that right now. Time to read CAG and bone up on just what you can legitimately do to keep the Bailiffs from entering your house - ie keep the car locked in the garage along with expensive garden stuff. Make sure all windows are securely locked, of course it is illegal to spirit away all that expensive procelain and those old masters etc again the next move is your creditors unless you file for BR yourself.

[deeplydebty]

bankruptcy would be handy given the amount of debt I am carrying. Especially if someone else is paying! I'm sure I overheard the wife telling someone we had a Chagall or perhaps I misheard and it was shag-all.

 

Thanks for the info. The car is not worth much (to anyone but me) but I can happily store it for a while in a friend's lock-up. Ah the sweet smell of summer on the bus...

[rebel11]

Hi deeply

 

Have you every been mis-sold PPI? Do you have credit card charges on your accounts?

 

Read 1/2/3 and 7/8 in my signature.

[AndyOrch]

Was the initial judgment a forthwith deeplydebt ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[deeplydebty]

Hi Andyorch,

 

yes, it was a forthwith with 14 days to pay the whole amount. The judge didn't ask at the time if we could pay.

[AndyOrch]

Well the creditor is entitled to reject the variation offer but the court has the power to insist.......since the changes to execution and the right to apply a charging order as security the court do not seem to enforce variations.

 

So your options......

 

Approach the creditor and try to thrash a monthly payment out...keep a paper trail as all attempts and rejections may be useful in the future.

 

Or do nothing and wait until the claimant tries to execute...which he has various options :-

 

Charging order restriction

Attachment of earnings

Third party debt order

Bailiffs subject to the amount

 

Or in the extreme cases Bankruptcy .

 

They have 6 years in which to execute the judgment.....if you can steer them to a Charging Order/Restriction that would be your best outcome.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[deeplydebty]

It doesn't appear to be the creditor who rejected the variation but just the court made its mind up.

 

We have no equity in our property so a charging order may be pointless.

We are self employed (and made a loss last year) so attachment of earnings will not work.

Third party debt order - not owed any money ourselves

We have lots of unsecured debt so bankruptcy might do us a favour.

Bailiffs were my worry but we'll just refuse entry.

 

So, the six years. Is this six years to start execution or if they start execution does it expire after 6 years?

 

We told them all along that we had no money or assets but they think we have a golden fleece!

[AndyOrch]

All application for variations are forwarded to the Claimant for consideration

[deeplydebty]

But I thought that even if they disagreed the court would decide.

[AndyOrch]

Post #10 first paragraph

[deeplydebty]

OK, so the courts aren't interested so much and just let the creditor get on with it.

Looks like I'll have to play dodge the bailiff.

[AndyOrch]

Approach the claimant to try to thrash out a payment plan...a realistic one.....retain all correspondence as it may help if they try to execute and you can prove that they would not accept affordable payment.

[deeplydebty]

Sadly, I have nothing. When I submitted the N245 I included everything including the stepchange printout that said I should offer £1 a month not just to that creditor but to all my creditors. If it wasn't for tax credits we would have been homeless ages ago.

[AndyOrch]

Well if you are a property owner...perhaps a charging order/restriction may be best suited for both parties.

I assume this debt is considerable?

[deeplydebty]

quite a few grand but we already have a second charge on the house which wipes out any equity

[AndyOrch]

Nothing to do with equity...a charging order is merely a means of securing the judgment debt should you sell your home in the future.