@vodafoneuk Stolen phone bill £1,888 , unlimited liability. Vodafone - help ** Settled **

[rebel11]

Get someone to film it, a genuine complaint, that's how Vodafone deal with people who complain, great customer service.

 

Also the Vodafone employees in the shop can go through the bill with you and explain any anomalies.

 

One of my links above shows that the Ombudsman will not deal in this matter.

 

As for forcibly being removed from a Vodafone store? Possibly!

 

If someone stood outside a Vodafone store giving out factual leaflets showing how Vodafone deals with complaints (as above), then there is absolutely nothing Vodafone staff, security staff or even the police can do to remove you.

[fletch70]

Rebel you actually said that they should go into the shop and refuse to leave until they got hold of someone from head office . If they will not then you wouldn't leave.

 

Veganite, sorry which link says that the ombudsman will not deal with it , it clearly refers to the ombudsman in the Vodafone terms

 

Yes of course the OP wants it resolving but my personal view, after reading the terms, is that the best they can hope for is a reduction but even that may be unlikely.

 

There really is more info we need

i.e

last time definitely seen

whose contract is it

Was it secure in the hotel room

Was it reported to the police either here or in Spain as soon as reasonably possible after discovering the theft/loss

 

Maybe from the dates and times of calls some of that could be worked out

 

I am also curious how the OP has seen the text saying the account was locked without the phone

[rebel11]

What I actually said was, 'sit in the store until somebody from H/O speaks to you', you need to be determined otherwise they will simply fob you off with, 'we can't do this, we can't do that', if they call the police fine, if asked to leave, then simply leave.

 

Info was provided by Vodafone, post 45:-

 

'I called vodafone again yesterday to ask what the text said which was sent to my son when his UK Plan was exceeded. This is what it said 'You have reached your Euro Traveller Allowance and your service is temporarily suspended. If you wish to reopen the line again, call 191 ...'

 

The text was sent at 12.19 on the 10th May per vodafone. I've just checked the itemised bill and at 12.18 there was a call in progress to an Estonia number, it lasted 17m.8s, taking the time to 12.35. At 12.35 the same number was dialled and lasted 0m 5s. This was followed at 12.35 by another call to the same number which lasted 15m 50s. This was followed by another call at 12.51 and so it goes on.

 

If the line was suspended, it wasn't at 12.19 as we can see from the bill. Also it means that if it was suspended, the thief wouldn't have had time to call 191 re the pattern of calls and the rapid dialling patterns. The other issue is that they wouldn't have got through your security anyway and so its looking likely that the line wasn't suspended.'

 

 

Rebel you actually said that they should go into the shop and refuse to leave until they got hold of someone from head office . If they will not then you wouldn't leave.

 

Veganite, sorry which link says that the ombudsman will not deal with it , it clearly refers to the ombudsman in the Vodafone terms

 

Yes of course the OP wants it resolving but my personal view, after reading the terms, is that the best they can hope for is a reduction but even that may be unlikely.

 

There really is more info we need

i.e

last time definitely seen

whose contract is it

Was it secure in the hotel room

Was it reported to the police either here or in Spain as soon as reasonably possible after discovering the theft/loss

 

Maybe from the dates and times of calls some of that could be worked out

 

I am also curious how the OP has seen the text saying the account was locked without the phone

[fletch70]

Point taken about the info on the txt, of course Voda can just deny that it was said or say he operator made an error.

 

I have always found that if you get to speak to someone in Stoke you get somehwre however I believe the other call centres are Durban and Egypt

[veganite]

Rebel you actually said that they should go into the shop and refuse to leave until they got hold of someone from head office . If they will not then you wouldn't leave.

 

Veganite, sorry which link says that the ombudsman will not deal with it , it clearly refers to the ombudsman in the Vodafone terms

 

Yes of course the OP wants it resolving but my personal view, after reading the terms, is that the best they can hope for is a reduction but even that may be unlikely.

 

There really is more info we need

i.e

last time definitely seen

whose contract is it

Was it secure in the hotel room

Was it reported to the police either here or in Spain as soon as reasonably possible after discovering the theft/loss

 

Maybe from the dates and times of calls some of that could be worked out

 

I am also curious how the OP has seen the text saying the account was locked without the phone

 

hello,

The link is here: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/aug/05/vodafone-stolen-sim-cards

In that article, it states that the Ombudsman will not deal with any complaints where a mobile network operator has met its contractual obligations. The problem OP has is that Vodafone are failing to engage in any further discussion in this matter. Also, Vodafone have informed OP that they need to contact the Ombudsman. Whilst Vodafone have not failed in their contractual obligations - this means that the Ombudsman can not intervene or investigate as shown in the article link above.

 

I find this situation appalling and a bad reflection on Vodafone. Not only are they failing to discuss this matter further with their customer, it can also be seen that they are 100% intent on making a profit from the stolen phone calls.

 

With all the tax dodges vodafone has got away with, it seems a company hell bent on making a profit under any circumstance.

https://www.google.ru/#newwindow=1&q=vodafone+tax+dodge+uk

[fletch70]

I can not dispute anything that you have said with the caveat that the article was written in 2011 so things may have changed

 

As I said before I am no fan of the capitalist society however I fear we are stuck with it.

[veganite]

hi fletch, i am living in an ex communist country, (Russia) and most people here who have experienced communist era would much prefer it to their present capitalism!

 

peopod - i've found a link whilst closing many browser windows, it's here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2298750/Recruitment-worker-23-left-21-000-phone-thief-uses-stolen-mobile-premium-rate-spending-spree.html

 

In the article, a Vodafone spokesman states:

A spokesman said: ‘This is a very unusual case. Normally, the customer is liable for any charges up to the point they report their phone lost or stolen.

‘However, this phone seems to have been used as part of a deliberate and organised crime which we will be investigating.

‘In this case, we will waive all of the charges raised by this fraud.

 

Your phone / sons phone was also used for fraud - calling premium rate phone numbers. Vodafone did insist that the person is liable for the bill, but I guess they backed down when the media took on the story.

[fletch70]

I don't want to go off track but from what I have experienced in ex eastern block countries ( I have visited many) people do seem to prefer the freedoms they now have to the totalitarian regime they lived under . Sadly there will always be people who look back and say things were better before and there will still be people alive in Russia that wish for the days of Stalin. I believe that as an ideal communism is great however it needs incorruptible people to run every layer of it and it needs a basic shift in human nature to make it work . We see too often , in every walk of life, in every hue of left and right people who are more concerned about their own egos than they are about liberty equality and fraternity

[Conniff]

I don't want to go off track but ....

 

 

But you did anyway.

 

 

No more communism v capitalism please, lets keep on topic. We have a bear garden for such debates.

[Peopod]

Hi Lee,

 

Thanks for your message. I sent the email yesterday as you advised.

 

I called Vodafone again yesterday to ask what the text said which was sent to my son when his UK Plan was exceeded. This is what it said 'You have reached your Euro Traveller Allowance and your service is temporarily suspended. If you wish to reopen the line again, call 191 ...'

 

The text was sent at 12.19 on the 10th May per Vodafone. I've just checked the itemised bill and at 12.18 there was a call in progress to an Estonia number, it lasted 17m.8s, taking the time to 12.35. At 12.35 the same number was dialled and lasted 0m 5s. This was followed at 12.35 by another call to the same number which lasted 15m 50s. This was followed by another call at 12.51 and so it goes on.

 

If the line was suspended, it wasn't at 12.19 as we can see from the bill. Also it means that if it was suspended, the thief wouldn't have had time to call 191 re the pattern of calls and the rapid dialling patterns. The other issue is that they wouldn't have got through your security anyway and so its looking likely that the line wasn't suspended.

 

In addition, having just gone through all of the calls, I've spotted something very odd: There are multiple calls to the same Estonia number, all at the same time:

 

- 12.01hrs 16m 39s cost 5.50

- 12.01hrs 17m 1s cost 5.67

- 12.18hrs 17m 8s cost 5.712

- 12.18hrs 16m 28s cost 5.48

- 12.35hrs15m 50s cost 5.41

- 12.35hrs 6m14s cot 2.20

 

This is the pattern throughout the bill. Also, I just noticed that although the majority of calls were to Estonia, there are some to Pakistan, Austria and Spain.

 

How can one phone/sim dial the same number at the same time whilst having up to 17 minutes per call please?

 

Just as odd is that the agent yesterday said we would now be passed onto the 'Bill shock' team, when asked why this was just happening, the agent said that Vodafone wanted to be sure that we were being billed correctly. If this is the case, why hasn't someone from Vodafone picked this up please?

 

Thanks Lee,

 

Peopod.

 

Hi Lee,

 

Did you see the above sent on Friday please, it's pretty important. I've just sent you a message via your 'help' line, quoting the code you gave me. Can you please have a look at it and get back to me.

 

Also I'm still waiting for a response to my email sent as you suggested last week, using the code you gave me, and my additional question asked on here, who is your mobile partner in Spain please?

 

Thanks,

Peopod

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Peopod,

 

I can't see your email. So I can check again, let me know your email reference number from our automated reply.

 

If you didn't receive this, email me again via the Contact us here and make sure that the code WRT135 - CAG Forum is quoted in the subject line.

 

There are a few networks available in Spain, Vodafone Spain being one of them.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

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[Peopod]

Hi Lee,

 

Thanks for this.

 

I have sent two emails to the 'help' link you gave me and quoted WRT135 - CAG on both of them. I didn't receive an auto reply to either of these?

 

Assume you have the one I sent today as you've replied to me? it's concerning the multiple/same time calls and other destinations called. Can you confirm you have this please to be on the safe side.

 

I'll have to do the email I sent on Thursday again as I don't know how to retrieve emails sent through your 'help' link.

 

Thanks,

 

Peopod,

[biggeorge]

I would personally ask Vodafone for my PAC code and transfer it to another company before they trash your credit file.

Let them chase you for the money with their dodgy debt collectors who can be easy to get rid of.

 

Vodafone should have something in place for customers when their usage pattern changes, from £30 a month constantly to

almost £2000, certainly strange usage and should have been stopped at around the £50 mark and the customer concerned contacted.

They should not be making profit from a crime.

 

George

[Peopod]

Hi Peopod,

 

I can't see your email. So I can check again, let me know your email reference number from our automated reply.

 

If you didn't receive this, email me again via the Contact us here and make sure that the code WRT135 - CAG Forum is quoted in the subject line.

 

There are a few networks available in Spain, Vodafone Spain being one of them.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

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Vodafone UK

 

Lee,

 

Communicating with Vodafone is proving very difficult . It's now 03.43 hours and I can't sleep because the deadline for deadlock expires tomorrow. You offered to extend this last Thursday but as I write, I've absolutely no idea if this has been done or not...

 

- I've done as you've asked and sent two emails into you using the 'help' link you provided and had no response to either.

- Yesterday you told me you couldn't see these emails, why?

- You also said that I should have had an auto reply, I didn't, Why?

- You said in your communication on here yesterday after I'd sent yet another message to you on here yesterday asking if you received my message posted on Friday at 10.40,: 'If you didn't receive this, email me again via the Contact us here and make sure that the code WRT135 - CAGicon Forum is quoted in the subject line.. Why wouldn't I receive and 'automated' email if that is how the system is set up?

 

Further,

 

- I sent you details, via this forum, of duplicate/same time calls on Friday at 10.40hrs. I've had no response from you regarding this, Why?

- I asked you again in my post yesterday, via this forum, but still no response regarding this, just a message to say you didn't receive my emails Why? I realise that you probably don't want to discuss issues on here directly but I can't seem to find any other way of communicating with you outside this forum

- On Thursday I sent another message on here asking for the details of your Spanish Mobile partner, and again asked for this yesterday, I've had no response to either of these requests, why?

 

One of my emails contained confidential information which I don't want to publish on here and requested formally that you extent the deadlock as per your advice to me. It's now 6 days on and I'm absolutely no further forward.

 

Please see link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2298750/Recruitment-worker-23-left-21-000-phone-thief-uses-stolen-mobile-premium-rate-spending-spree.html

 

This case is exactly the same as our, even down the location. This poor persons bill was £21,000 but was waived because it was deemed 'organised crime'. If our case was being looked at by Vodafone to check that the bill was correct before it was passed to the 'Bill Shock' team, why didn't someone:

- pick up the duplicate / same time / same number calls and if they did, why didn't anyone tell us, given the quote from Vodafone contained in the article please?

 

I've emailed you again, to your help line provided in your message, but given that I did this 6 days ago, didn't receive an auto reply, I don't see why my emails should get through this time round here. The Deadlock hold expires tomorrow and so far and regardless of how I try and communicate with Vodafone, I just don't make any headway.

 

I didn't want to post this on here as I'd really rather just stay with the issue I have but given the above, I'm running out of ideas of how else I can communicate.

 

Peopod

[Peopod]

Hi

 

Does anyone know where I can get a list of premium rate numbers for Pakistan, Austria and Spain please. We have at least one premium rate number for Estonia and so chances are that the others are premium rate.

 

Thanks

 

Peopod

[sequenci]

I

 

Vodafone should have something in place for customers when their usage pattern changes, from £30 a month constantly to

almost £2000, certainly strange usage and should have been stopped at around the £50 mark and the customer concerned contacted.

They should not be making profit from a crime.

 

George

 

They absolutely do. All networks do. The problem is that when someone is overseas, Vodafone (and all other networks) are reliant on those foreign networks being able to transfer to the call data over in a timely fashion. Sadly, it can take a few days - and the data is often transferred over in chunks at a time. This means that criminals have a short window before the call bars are actioned. This is usually longer if someone is roaming on a network which isn't under the same umbrella as the 'home' network.

[Peopod]

Thanks, The Euro Package comes with a text whilst overseas which says you've exceeded your allowance. Vodafone say they were temporarily suspending my sons line but it doesn't appear to have been as there is no break in calls. Either way, the fact they send a text as part of the T/C's means they have sight of the calls and any patterns.

 

The main question now is how to find out where I can find a comprehensive list of premium rate numbers for the countries I've listed. Any ideas please?

 

Many thanks

[veganite]

They absolutely do. All networks do. The problem is that when someone is overseas, Vodafone (and all other networks) are reliant on those foreign networks being able to transfer to the call data over in a timely fashion. Sadly, it can take a few days - and the data is often transferred over in chunks at a time. This means that criminals have a short window before the call bars are actioned. This is usually longer if someone is roaming on a network which isn't under the same umbrella as the 'home' network.

 

Whilst that is true, I find it extremely hard to believe. My opinion is that this is an excuse used by the networks. For example, if you were to use a pay as you go phone abroad, as soon as it runs out of credit you can't make any further calls. I know this from experience (since I would never have a contract phone).

 

I fail to see the difference between a contract phone updating and a pay as you go phone updating, the networks say that they don't receive the updates - yet if this is correct, how is it that pay as you go phones do not endlessly go on making calls after the credit is expired?

[sequenci]

They use different systems. The PAYG isn't reliant on the foreign network in that regard. I worked in the mobile industry from 1998-2006. I don't know what has happened since then as far as the technology is concerned.

[veganite]

Hi

 

Does anyone know where I can get a list of premium rate numbers for Pakistan, Austria and Spain please. We have at least one premium rate number for Estonia and so chances are that the others are premium rate.

 

Thanks

 

Peopod

 

 

Numbers starting with 80 and 90 are used for premium rates, toll free, and internet access numbers. 803, 806, and 807 prefixes are used for premium rate calls, where the caller pays a fixed amount of money per minute. 905 numbers are supposed to be used for voting systems. Calls have a limited duration (typically 3 minutes), and are charged a fixed rate per call.

Above from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_Spain

 

Premium Rate services:

 

• 0900 xxxxx
  

Above from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_Pakistan

 

09 xxx Premium Rate

Above from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_Austria

[veganite]

They use different systems. The PAYG isn't reliant on the foreign network in that regard. I worked in the mobile industry from 1998-2006. I don't know what has happened since then as far as the technology is concerned.

 

So, they use different systems? One system for contract phones which does not make provision to update daily (therefore helping to make network operator a profit in the case of stolen phones) and - a different system for Pay As You Go phones (helping to make the network operator not to suffer a loss in the event of a stolen mobile) since the Pay As You Go system updates?

 

So they use a system on PAYG phones so they don't suffer a loss in event of stolen phone, yet they can't use the same system for contract phones?

 

Using different systems in my opinion is unfair and detrimental to people with contract phones.

[fletch70]

Try Google

Spain has 803 806 and 807 as premium rate numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_numbers_in_Spain

 

I googled premium rate telephone numbers in spain

[sequenci]

 

Using different systems in my opinion is unfair and detrimental to people with contract phones.

 

Not when they're doing two different jobs. It's a bit like trying to use Microsoft Outlook to make a spreadsheet.

[veganite]

Not when they're doing two different jobs. It's a bit like trying to use Microsoft Outlook to make a spreadsheet.

 

I am not sure how they are doing two different jobs since the contract system keeps track of usage and the PAYG system also keeps track of usage. The only difference I see is that the contract system updates sporadically, perhaps a few hours delay or a days delay and the PAYG system updates immediately, in real time.

 

Contract system = Slow to update, makes customer liable in event of stolen phone so that the mobile operator can profit from the theft.

PAYG system = protects the mobile network operator since no calls can be made when credit is finished.

 

Since mobile network operators have in place a system for PAYG phones which updates itself immediately, I fail to see why they can not use the same system for contract phones.

I strongly suspect that in the case of contract phones, they can see this data and it is updated immediately, though they are reliant on the excuse that they can not see such data because the customer is then liable.

 

After all, they can see the data in respect of PAYG phones and yet they claim they can not see this data in the case of contract phones. I can not see any reason why they would use a 'lesser' system for contract phones.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Peopod,

 

For some reason your emails haven't reached me.

 

So I can check again, PM me with your email address.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

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