MKDP claimform for old {EGG} Barclaycard 'debt' thats done the rounds

[AndyOrch]

You must convert the above to pdf format OMH we cant read postage stamps:wink:

[Off My Head]

Hi Andy,

 

Sorry, I think I must have been Off My Head attaching postage stamps! Forgot to convert to PDF.

 

Please see attached, not sure why pdf is in Landscape but can be rotated in the reading pane.

 

Regards

 

OMH

[AndyOrch]

Okay back to your initial question...it appears that the DJ has adopted a simplistic approach in his directions.

 

Look at the " Each party...." line that is standard disclosure and if you wish you can also submit a WS but the court as not specifically ordered you to.

 

N265 is for Fast Track cases only...yours is SCT.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Off My Head]

Hi Andy,

 

Thank you for clearing that up for me, not sure that a simplistic approach is good news or not? How indepth does my WS need to be?

I have read that no more that 250 words is good, I managed that in my first paragraph!

 

Do I need to be quoting law and legal president or should I rely on the D.J. to look at the facts and the overwhelming amount of paperwork that I will be steering him through? Should I include the months of copy statements supplies by MKDP which only show late payment, over agreed limit charges and interest or leave this to them?

 

I have created a speadsheet in chronological order of all the papers i am relying on in court.... Even I struggle to understand how I have ended up in this mess.... none of the demands, notices amounts claimed or letters received make any sense. I wonder if the D.J. will even try to make sense of it all and just find in favour of the MKDP Sharks!

 

I can't thank you enough for the help and knowledge you have been passsing on on this site! I have made a small donation via Paypal but I shall be setting up a regular contribution to this site what ever the out come.

 

 

I have recommend CAG to a few people that I know would benefit from your advice.

 

Regards

 

OMH

Edited November 10, 2014 by Off My Head

[AndyOrch]

I would expect in most SCT cases that a WS should be no longer than 2 pages......don't lose the Judges concentration.If you wish to refer and rely on case law then refer to it by exhibit and number accordingly.

 

It should be simple in your own words and particularise your defence...I normally advise defendants to wait until they receive the claimants WS (assuming they submit one) then you can base yours and challenege on their points.

[Off My Head]

Thank you Andy, I am not overly concerned about their WS as I have enough conflicting bits of paper from several DCA's to sink a battleship. My main defense will be to make them prove I owe any monies on these conflicting Barclaycard accounts. Also that my account was in dispute with BC before they sold the debt to MKDP, which I believe they are not supposed to do if the account is in dispute. Neither BC or MKDP until very recently have complied with requests for information (CCA, SAR) What I have received is poorly reconstituted CCA and statements after dispute with BC (interest and charges only on statements) I shall be pushing for account miss managed by BC and unable to resolve with either owner of the alleged debt.

 

MKDP have started in the last two weeks ringing all my phones but leaving no message...... I wonder if they are getting cold feet?

 

Regards

 

OMH

[AndyOrch]

Thank you Andy, I am not overly concerned about their WS as I have enough conflicting bits of paper from several DCA's to sink a battleship.Not really relevant to the claim or defence My main defense will be to make them prove I owe any monies on these conflicting Barclaycard accounts. Also that my account was in dispute with BC before they sold the debt to MKDP, Again not relevant they can assign during a dispute or for any reason which I believe they are not supposed to do if the account is in dispute.Mmm yes they can Neither BC or MKDP until very recently have complied with requests for information (CCA, SAR) What I have received is poorly reconstituted CCA and statements after dispute with BC (interest and charges only on statements) I shall be pushing for account miss managed by BC and unable to resolve with either owner of the alleged debt.

 

MKDP have started in the last two weeks ringing all my phones but leaving no message...... I wonder if they are getting cold feet? I doubt it

 

Regards

 

OMH

 

Keep your WS succinct and deal with the points of the claim and disputed debt......anything pre litigation by any DCA is irrelevant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Off My Head]

Keep your WS succinct and deal with the points of the claim and disputed debt......anything pre litigation by any DCA is irrelevant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thank you again Andy for all your help and advice sorry for the late reply been away with work for a few days. I am struggling to understand how all the DCA letters are irrelevant as they hold conflicting information (monies owed) and to a degree were the cause of the littigation in the first place, is that not even worth a mention?

 

Are you suggesting that I purley defend this claim on the basis of putting these guys to strict proof that it is me that owes them the monies claimed? in which case my witness statement will be short and to the point: "I don't owe you this money, prove it"

 

My question now with your advice should put me in a position to disclose this weekend.

 

1/ if the above is to be the basis I fight this on, what sections of the consumer credit act am I relying on?

 

2/ Are the charges and interest claimed whilst in dispute with BC defendable/legal?

 

3/ should I bother copying all the DCA letters or only my communications (CCA SAR requests Ect) and their replys?

 

4/ Is their poorly reconstituted CCA and copied T&C's defenable?

 

5/ do I need to copy their copy statements showing charges and interst only (reams of it)? or rely on them to submit these?

 

6/ Is this whole sorry mess irrelevant in court? will the DJ not want to know how this has been brought before the court?

 

7/ if I am only relying on them not having the correct papers/documentation to prove their case I feel I will be somewhat dissadvantaged in court. How will I know what to question them on?

 

I so want to take this fight to them but am worried that everything I have will be consisered irrelevant in the eyes of the law! that feels a pretty weak position to be in!

 

Obvoiusly morals and justice have little on no place in the british legal system.

 

I will push on today and over the weekend, looking to send everything special delivery on Tuesday morning. I would really appreciate a response to the seven points above. One last point do I mention the £800 paid to a BC appointed DCA (Mercers, Liverpool) which was supposed to ensure no action was taken whilst they were supposed to sort out the mess? (payments not shown on any BC statements but shown on my Bank statements as paid)

 

Best regards

 

OMH

[AndyOrch]

Thank you again Andy for all your help and advice sorry for the late reply been away with work for a few days. I am struggling to understand how all the DCA letters are irrelevant as they hold conflicting information (monies owed) and to a degree were the cause of the littigation in the first place, is that not even worth a mention?

 

Are you suggesting that I purley defend this claim on the basis of putting these guys to strict proof that it is me that owes them the monies claimed? in which case my witness statement will be short and to the point: "I don't owe you this money, prove it"..Basically yes but im sure you can pad it out a tad more

 

My question now with your advice should put me in a position to disclose this weekend.

 

1/ if the above is to be the basis I fight this on, what sections of the consumer credit act am I relying on? Section 77 in the main subject to what you have put them to proof at within your defence

 

2/ Are the charges and interest claimed whilst in dispute with BC defendable/legal? Depends who applied them...you are only legally responsible for the debt amount before any assignment

 

3/ should I bother copying all the DCA letters or only my communications (CCA SAR requests Ect) and their replys? Only anything in connection to the OC and MKDP

 

4/ Is their poorly reconstituted CCA and copied T&C's defensible? Yes if your agreement is pre April 2007...they cant enforce with a reconstituted

 

5/ do I need to copy their copy statements showing charges and interst only (reams of it)? or rely on them to submit these? Let them

 

6/ Is this whole sorry mess irrelevant in court? will the DJ not want to know how this has been brought before the court? He will want to know how/what the dispute is and as the claimant legally followed the procedure to enforce the agreement...that is all

 

7/ if I am only relying on them not having the correct papers/documentation to prove their case I feel I will be somewhat dissadvantaged in court. How will I know what to question them on? That can only be the basis of defence unless its not your debt...you wont be questioning anyone...only answering the questions the Judge asks you.

 

I so want to take this fight to them but am worried that everything I have will be consisered irrelevant in the eyes of the law! that feels a pretty weak position to be in!

 

I fully understand that and its a natural response to throw all the history and kitchen sink at them..who did what and when and their behaviour ...but it means very little in the eyes of the law.You signed an agreement you spent the money....the only point you need to argue is ...have they followed procedure do they have the relevant paperwork to back their claim up...yes the disputed charges and interest can be questioned and maybe mitigated but there will still be a debt at the end of it...you are questioning if they (MKDP) have the legal right to collect and enforce and will they follow the court procedure correctly to attain judgment.

Obvoiusly morals and justice have little on no place in the british legal system.

 

I will push on today and over the weekend, looking to send everything special delivery on Tuesday morning. I would really appreciate a response to the seven points above. One last point do I mention the £800 paid to a BC appointed DCA (Mercers, Liverpool) which was supposed to ensure no action was taken whilst they were supposed to sort out the mess? (payments not shown on any BC statements but shown on my Bank statements as paid)

 

If the claimed balance is incorrect and not a true reflection of your indebtedness then that point alone is enough to stall the claim...you have to be carfull because by revealing too much history you are verging on admittance...so that point should only be revealed if you feel the claim is slipping away from you and the judge is not concerned with following the CCA1974.

Best regards

 

OMH

 

I trust the above clarifies and avails your concerns.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Off My Head]

Hi Andy,

 

Thank you for your patience, I think the penny has dropped...... I get it now.

 

Best regards

 

OMH

[Off My Head]

Hi Andy,

 

Please see my proposed Witness Statement, could you please have a quick look through as it is bound to have errors and irrelevant points and the last thing I want to do is anger the judge before the hearing. Not sending until Wednesday.

 

 

 

Inthe XXXXXX County Court

 

 

 

Case/Claim Number XXXXXX

Between

 

 

 

 

MKDP LLP

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

 

XXXXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

 

Witness Statement ofXXXXXX

 

 

 

I am the defendantin the above case and appear before the court as a litigant in person.

 

 

 

1. In the Autumn of 2011 I received from Barclaycard statements that I did not recognise, this was questioned with Barclaycard with no resolution over many months
   
2. I requested a Copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement with the appropriate payment. (Copy Letter) pursuant to S.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requesting statutory information in relationship to the account in question, I had no response from Barclaycard
   
3. I continued to receive demands for payment from 5 different DCA’s and each case I reminded them of my position with Barclaycard. I wrote again to Barclaycard requesting Statutory Access Request and sent the appropriate fee of £10.00. No response or correspondence was received from Barclaycard.
   
4. I wrote to Barclaycard again reminding them I was in dispute over the account and asking them to fulfil their obligation for my statutory requests (Refer)
   
5. Barclaycard as the original creditor has failed to respond to my requests pursuant to S.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requesting statutory information in relationship to the account in question. Therefore the subsequent alleged assignment of the said indebtedness is in direct contravention of the Consumer Credit Act 1974
   
6. On the 17th April 2014 I received from MKDP a letter informing they were now the legal owners of the said debt. In response I sent a further request for a copy of a Consumer Credit Agreement for the account
   
7. 10 days later On 28th May I received the Claim Form in this case issued by MKDP out of the (Northampton County Court) I responded with a CPR 13.14 request and received the enclosed letter from MKDP on the 18th June 2014 unable to comply with my request.
   
8. I replied on the 20th June acknowledging their letter and disputing their claim along with a further request and payment for a true copy of the CCA. (Refers)
   
9. On the 26th July I received a response from MKDP (Refers) with a poorly reconstituted CCA and copy T&Cs which do not appear to relate to Barclaycard and further more I deny ever being in receipt of such Terms & Conditions. The account they are referring to is pre 2007 and puts the reconstituted CCA supplied into doubt
   
10. I believe this disputed account should not have been assigned to MKDP and further more neither the original creditor nor MKDP have complied with my appropriate request for information under S.77/78 of the consumer credit act 1974 or my CPR 31.14 request. I believe MKDP have abused the legal system to bring this case to court without having the proper documentation to hand at the time of making the Claim in the Northampton County Court and I put them to strict proof to the amounts being claimed and how the amounts were derived and importantly that I am the debtor of the said account.
    
11. To date MKDP LLP have not provided me with any documentation to prove their caseagainst me.
    
12. I will now refer to my defence in this case (Refer to copy Defense)
    

I believe that the facts shown inthis statement are true.

 

 

 

 

 

…………………………

 

Date

[AndyOrch]

Yes thats fine OMH...just a couple of tips...when you are referring to attached ...state (see exhibit 1a) etc etc.Enclose copies of all requests to date.

Same if you wish to rely on certain parts of the CCA1974.

 

Your point 10 is incorrect...an agreement can assigned at any time ...dispute or no dispute...otherwise its fine.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Off My Head]

Thank you Andy for your very prompt reply. I take your piont about point 10 but as it is only the first line in the statement that is incorrect and meant more as a "Barclaycard could have resolved these issues if?" is it not worth keeping in? Otherwise the rest of point 10 is correct?

 

Looking forward to putting it all together in the binders now and sending Wednesday special delivery to both Court & MKDP.

 

Regards

 

OMH

[AndyOrch]

Its repetitive...its irrelevant whethr BC responded or not...MK are the claimants now...you only need to state once that both parties have failed to comply with your section 78 request.BTW only state the correct section if its section 78 dont refer to 77 and visa versa.

[Off My Head]

Hi Andy,

 

Whilst putting all my exhibits together I found a couple of golden nuggets to me, probably irrelevant, but non the less I have included and altered my WS to reflect their addition to my file. Could I call upon you one last time to have a quick scan through? Just in case I upset the judge with my terminology, I'm wanting to prove that MKDP LLP have not got a clue what they are doing when they threaten me with legal proceedings 4 months after they have issued the claim. My thoughts are that if they can't get that right maybe their other exhibits/documents are fall of errors?

 

 

I am the defendant in the above case and appear before the court as a litigant in person and will state the following...

 

 

 

1. In the Autumn of 2011 I received from Barclaycard statements that I did not recognise, this was questioned with Barclaycard with no resolution over many months
   
2. I requested a Copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement with the appropriate payment on the 16 May 2012 (Exhibit A1) pursuant to S.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Exhibit A2) requesting statutory information in relationship to the account in question, I had no response from Barclaycard
   
3. I continued to receive demands for payment from 5 different DCA’s and each case I reminded them of my position with Barclaycard. I wrote again to Barclaycard on the 15th August 2012 (Exhibit A3) requesting Statutory Access Request and sent the appropriate fee of £10.00. No response or correspondence was received from Barclaycard.
   
4. On the 1st February 2013 I received a formal demand for payment from Barclaycard (Exhibit B1)
   
5. I wrote to Barclaycard again on the 6 February 2013 reminding them I was in dispute over the account and asking them to fulfil their obligation for my statutory requests (Exhibit A4)
   
6. Barclaycard as the original creditor has failed to respond to my requests pursuant to S.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requesting statutory information in relationship to the account in question. Therefore the subsequent alleged assignment of the said indebtedness is in direct contravention of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Exhibit A2)
   
7. On the 17th April 2014 I received from MKDP a letter (Exhibit B2) informing they were now the legal owners of the said debt. 10 days later On 28th May I received the Claim Form in this case issued by MKDP out of the (Northampton County Court) I responded with a CPR 13.14 request on 1st June 2014(Exhibit A5) and received the enclosed letter from MKDP on the 18th June 2014 unable to comply with my request. (Exhibit B3)
   
8. I replied on the 20th June acknowledging their letter and disputing their claim along with a further request and payment for a true copy of the CCA. (Exhibit A6)
   
9. On the 8th July 2014 I received a letter from MKDP confirming they were unable to resolve my query (Exhibit B4) further underpinning my concerns that the claim was made without the appropriate documentation which might be considered a breach of process
   
10. On the 26th July I received a response from MKDP with a poorly reconstituted CCA and copy T&Cs (Exhibit B5)which do not appear to relate to Barclaycard and further more I deny ever being in receipt of such Terms & Conditions. The account they are referring to is pre 2007 and puts the reconstituted CCA supplied into doubt
    
11. On the 18th August 2014 I received from Keynes Collections (MKDP) a notice of intended legal action against myself for the collection of monies claimed in the case above, quoting Pre-action Conduct of the Civil Procedure Rules. (Exhibit B6) This group in my opinion has failed due diligence as the claim and my defence was already lodged with the court.
    
12. I believe this disputed account should not have been assigned to MKDP and further more neither the original creditor nor MKDP have complied with my appropriate request for information under S.77/78 of the consumer credit act 1974 or my CPR 31.14 request. I believe MKDP have abused the legal system to bring this case to court without having the proper documentation to hand at the time of making the Claim in the Northampton County Court and I put them to strict proof to the amounts being claimed and how the amounts were derived and importantly that I am the debtor of the said account.
    
13. To date MKDP LLP have not provided me with any documentation to prove their case against me.
    
14. I will now refer to my defence in this case (Exhibit A7)
    

I believe that the facts shown in this statement are true.

[AndyOrch]

The " statements " in point 1 OMH by unrecognisable...define....the amounts or the account numbers ect?

[Off My Head]

Hi Andy,

 

Today I received the witness statement from MKDP (6 days late) 5 days after they received mine.

 

 

As expected they have attacked my WS and tried to rip it to shreds.

 

 

One thing I notice they have gone to great lenghts to point out the Case of Carey vs HSBC and a reconstituted version of the agreement.

 

 

Therefore rendering the agreement as enforceable.

 

 

My original agreement was taken out in 2001 and I understood only agreements taken out post 2007 were inforceble with a reconstiituted agreement?

 

What is my position with them making reference to this case?

 

Regards

 

OMH

[SabreSheep]

Google the court case and dowload the judgement.

Long read but will give u what you need to counter their argument.

 

in short. Pre 2007 DOES require the original.

[Off My Head]

Thank You Sabresheep, I'll take a look.

 

OMH

[Off My Head]

Hi,

 

I have been checking the reconstituted CCA/T&Cs and

 

 

I notice that they have attached two sets of T&C's

 

 

one from the supposed original card lender and

the other being Barclaycard T&C's.

 

 

They both quote different interest rates (I had to use a magnifying glass to read them)

first bank quotes 19.9%,

BC T&C's quotes 24.9%

 

 

furthermore when I check the monthly interest rates on the copy statements they were charging 1.873% APR 22.47%.

None of the interest rates in T&Cs match what I have been charged.

 

 

QUESTION: Is there any mileage bringng this to the DJ's attention.

Does this, as I believe carry more weight than relying on S77/78? or is this irrelevant?

 

I would appreciate your thoughts/comments..... D Day is getting closer!

 

Regards

 

OMH

[dx100uk]

look at the little number on the edge of the t&C's too, they often give the date away

 

 

and look for the level of PENALTY charges quoted

that is often wrong for the time too.

 

 

but the bottom line is:

if the card was taken out before Apr 2007 & it was not done online

then they are stuffed

[Off My Head]

Thank you DX100UK

 

That said am I right to fetch up the disparity with the interest rates on the T&Cs and those shown on the copy statements during the hearing?

 

OMH

[AndyOrch]

Thank you DX100UK

 

That said am I right to fetch up the disparity with the interest rates on the T&Cs and those shown on the copy statements during the hearing?

 

OMH

 

Its an option if you get chance and the DJ allows you but not an argument I would rely on to attain success.

 

Andy

[Off My Head]

Hi All,

 

 

Less than 24hours until the hearing. last min prep today. Any advice on how to conduct myself in court tomorrow would be a help. Can't say the nerves aren't kicking in a little.

 

 

A few do's and don'ts especially if I need to bring something to the DJ's attention.

 

 

As always, many thanks for your help over the long months.

 

 

Best regards

 

 

OMH

[Guest]

the other side might approach you for a 'chat' before going in.

be confident, be cool.

 

re district judge - sir/madam, may i refer to/refer you to xxxx

 

good luck