Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • just to be clear here..... the DVLA do not send letters if a drivers licence address differs from any car's V5C that shows the same driver as it's registered keeper.
    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

East Midlands Trains - Fare Evasion? Prosecution?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3667 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I'm looking for some advice on a problem that has affected me. I'll begin from the start.

 

I ordered a Stagecoach Smartcard (part of EMT so i gather) so i could commute to school (I'm 16) by Train.

 

I went to use it as i went to my volunteer position on a Heritage Railway,

I thought it worked like a trentbarton MANGO card, I scanned it on and the scanner bleeped at me

so i thought i'd recieve a bill through the post or something (first time using one).

 

I got on my train and as the Ticket Inspector walked down

i explained what i had done and asked her if it was OK,

she later turned out to be a Revenue Protection Officer for EMT.

She took my card and said that the card was only for season tickets but took it and phoned the card place.

 

She said there was no ticket on the card so i offered to pay for a paper one,

she refused and said it's too late.

 

She then got me off the train at Derby Station (I started at Long Eaton, commuting to Belper)

and took me to the front desk.

 

I asked her if i could use a phone to call my parent and she said she'd check my details

and be a few minutes then i could.

 

I gave her my details and version of events in full.

I got my phone out (with no credit) to get my parent's number out

and she said i couldn't use her phone because i had one, she said that i had a phone

and im trying to waste her time.

 

She even threatened to call the police and my volunteer work and 'see what they thought of it'

in the end she said she'd be reporting it and i'd get a letter in the post to take me to court.

 

I made her fully aware i was 16 and asked her for ID so i could write down her name,

She flashed her name badge (pinned onto her shirt) at me and shouted

'I'm ****** and i'm a REVENUE PROTECTION OFFICER!' (Don't know if i'm allowed to post names).

 

Afterwards when i got to my volunteers position (late) and spoke to two volunteers

(One a Magistrate and one a former Police Officer) and

 

they said what she did was out of order and they probably wouldn't do anything

because of her behaviour (shouting, refusing me access to a phone,

questioning me without a responsible adult, not showing me a badge of authority

or cautioning me and apparently anything i said to her was inadmissible in court).

 

Any advice? I'm still waiting on the letter.

 

Thanks,

Alphoria

Edited by Alphoria
Paras.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Alphoria

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such. Explain what's happened (misunderstanding how card worked), how they have let you down (the Revenue Inspector being rude and unhelpful, tell him what she said, explain that she didn't allow you to explain what happened) and what you want them to do. Run the letter pass your parents.

 

Send it to:-

 

Mr David Horne

Managing Director

East Midlands Trains

[email protected]

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Alphoria

 

How old are you at the moment? 16?

Well If you are, im not sure if your parents would have to deal with this for you.

 

However Rebel has it right, contact the MD and say exactly what has happened and then go from there. Im pretty sure EMT are a bit better than other operators.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I have spoken to the General Manager of the Heritage Railway of which i volunteer and he is confident they won't proceed after he emailed them advising them not to.

 

Thanks for the help anyway.

Well, apart from the person who came in throwing accusations.

 

Otherwise, if you live in Derbyshire enjoy the sun.

 

But once again, Thank you all very much!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please read this in the spirit that it is intended.

 

I doubt that the general manager of a Heritage Railway will have any say in the matter and this also goes for the advice of other volunteers. It will be up to the TOC to decide what, if any action they take, but they may consider any mitigation put to them before coming to their decision.

 

Now I also hope that this isn't pursued further if all happened exactly as you say, but a fare is due and the rail company are entitled to pursue that if they wish to do so. The matter of staff behaviour and any complaint concerning that is an entirely separate issue and should be pursued as such.

 

As you are only 16 a prosecution is extremely unlikely, TOCs do not normally proceed to Youth Courts unless the matter is very serious and this certainly does not fall into that category.

 

If you get a letter from East Midland Trains, come back and let us know what it says.

Edited by Old-CodJA
Error in referring to wrong TOC
Link to post
Share on other sites

If you get a letter from London Midland, come back and let us know what it says.

 

Didnt know LM and EMT were one and the same ^__^

 

But yes, its very unlikely they will proceed to prosecute.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My previous post edited to reflect my error in referring to wrong TOC. Thanks to fkofilee for noticing.

 

 

content unchanged otherwise

 

Quite frankly I'm relieved! I've larnt a great deal from OCJ's post, and consider them authoratative, but have always wondered .....

At last, proof that OCJ can in fact make mistakes (albeit minor admin ones!), so proof that they aren't an AI machine, and are human :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't quite know how it works but it seems to have done. I'm now travelling happy with trentbarton rather than East Mids Trains. If i do get a letter i will come back and let you know though!

 

And i'm more than happy to pay the fare or even a £20 penalty fare, I was just really worried about the 'court scare' they gave me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Looks like i've had to come back and grovel and say you may be right. I recieved a letter from their 'Prosecution Dept' yesterday, they have invited me to an appointment on Tuesday, what do i do?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like i've had to come back and grovel and say you may be right. I recieved a letter from their 'Prosecution Dept' yesterday, they have invited me to an appointment on Tuesday, what do i do?

 

Your original post notes you told the RP staff member you were 16.

You haven't turned 17 in the interim?

 

Does the letter make any reference to your age, or to having an "appropriate adult" with you?.

 

Do you have a passport or other official document showing your age?

 

The reason I am asking is that if you are still a juvenile, I'd be surprised if they knew that and wanted to interview you without an 'appropriate adult' present.

The interview then certainly couldn't proceed under PACE guidelines.

 

You could consider attending, "dressing down" (school uniform, no make up) and saying : "I've told my parents I'm coming here, they weren't sure if they needed to come with me, as like I told the lady on the train : I'm only 16.

Your letter didn't say anything about bringing my parents, though"

"I made a mistake, and offered to pay on the train as I admitted my mistake"

 

If they then ask you again about your age, show them whatever proof you have. If they mention the on train staff not noting your age, remind them that you did tell her your age, and ask to be able to call your parents from the station, but weren't allowed to.

 

I suspect that will derail proceedings.

(BTW, you have told your parents? and are you meant to be in school / college on Tuesday?)

 

As OCJ noted, it would be very unusual for court proceedings to follow for a juvenile.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your original post notes you told the RP staff member you were 16.

You haven't turned 17 in the interim?

 

Does the letter make any reference to your age, or to having an "appropriate adult" with you?.

 

Do you have a passport or other official document showing your age?

 

The reason I am asking is that if you are still a juvenile, I'd be surprised if they knew that and wanted to interview you without an 'appropriate adult' present.

The interview then certainly couldn't proceed under PACE guidelines.

 

You could consider attending, "dressing down" (school uniform, no make up) and saying : "I've told my parents I'm coming here, they weren't sure if they needed to come with me, as like I told the lady on the train : I'm only 16.

Your letter didn't say anything about bringing my parents, though"

"I made a mistake, and offered to pay on the train as I admitted my mistake"

 

If they then ask you again about your age, show them whatever proof you have. If they mention the on train staff not noting your age, remind them that you did tell her your age, and ask to be able to call your parents from the station, but weren't allowed to.

 

I suspect that will derail proceedings.

(BTW, you have told your parents? and are you meant to be in school / college on Tuesday?)

 

As OCJ noted, it would be very unusual for court proceedings to follow for a juvenile.

 

They do want me to take a responsible and I'm still 16.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They do want me to take a responsible and I'm still 16.

 

Take a responsible adult, and DON'T mention any negative aspects of the member of train staff ; the time to complain about HER is after YOUR case is resolved.

 

Say what you've said here. No need to change it, especially if it is what you told the on-train staff member. You didn't have a valid ticket, but only by an error : explain how you came to make the error you made. Offer apologies for your error, stress that then and now you were and are willing to pay your fare, and that you are sorry that trouble has been caused.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your advice and I did exactly what you said and the man was very reasonable. He said the usual fine would be £280+ original fare but they would charge me £75 for my stupidity.

 

So overall a £75 fine.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...