Parking Eye & Debt Recovery Plus Ltd

[Mr_Bingley]

Hello guys, I'm having a few issues with the above company and debt recovery plus ltd.

 

Whilst on holiday in Wales I parked in a retail car park with a 2 hr limit. The problem was the design and location of the car park is poor, two car parks exit onto the same side road which then exits onto a small road which is controlled by traffic lights onto a main road. The end result is it can take ages to get out of the car park.

 

I know that my time stationary (parked) was less than two hours, however, its quite possible that it took 10 mins to find a space and a further 15 mins to get out of the car park. There was no ticket on the car so I can only assume there was a number plate recognition camera at the entrance / exit somewhere?

 

Anyway, I've had the letters from PE which I've ignored, I've then had the first letter from DRP saying I had until 20/02/2014 to pay, which I ignored and I now have another one saying I must pay by 07/03/2014. If i don't pay " we will pass your file to the creditors solicitor with a recommendation to commence court action against you"

 

I am fully prepared to defend myself should it go to court as I know I wasn't "parked" for over two hours.

 

I would like to request the evidence that they have though, but not sure if I should make contact?

 

What's the best course of action?

 

Cheers guys

Edited February 24, 2014 by Mr_Bingley

[ploddertom]

New thread created

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Bit confused. Your thread title says claim form received. Is that a fact?

 

OR have they threatened you with a court claim.

[Mr_Bingley]

Sorry, I replied to an old thread and then a new one was created with the same title.

 

To confirm the first letter from DRP was titled "demand for payment of an unpaid parking charge"

 

The second letter is "notice of intended court action - unpaid parking charge"

[silverfox1961]

OK I will change the thread title.

 

The letter from DR+ says they will 'recommend' that their client take legal action

 

Now, PE are quite litigious so you may receive court papers but on the other hand, you may not. It all depends on how the PE pet lawyer is feeling on the day

[Mr_Bingley]

Ok, so if I receive court papers what happens then?

 

Can I request further details and a copy of the evidence to show I overstayed?

 

I would like them to prove how many cars passed through the camera in a certain time period to prove how long it took to leave the crapark? Are they likely to give me that information?

[silverfox1961]

IF it does happen, there is plenty on here and other sites that show how to trip them up.

[f16]

What date was the "offence"?

Can you post up the letters they have sent you? You will need to edit Personal details, including Reg no, PCN no. etc

Also need the date the first letter landed on your door mat

Cheers

F16

[f16]

Ok, so if I receive court papers what happens then?

 

Can I request further details and a copy of the evidence to show I overstayed?

 

I would like them to prove how many cars passed through the camera in a certain time period to prove how long it took to leave the crapark? Are they likely to give me that information?

 

Your defene will be done by other CAGGERS before the court papers arrive, Don't worry

 

Your typo made me laugh ... "crapark"

[ploddertom]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Bit confused. Your thread title says claim form received. Is that a fact?

 

OR have they threatened you with a court claim.

 

My fault I just created a new thread without making sure the title was relevant.

[Mr_Bingley]

What date was the "offence"?

Can you post up the letters they have sent you? You will need to edit Personal details, including Reg no, PCN no. etc

Also need the date the first letter landed on your door mat

Cheers

F16

 

Thanks for your help so far guys, nice to know there's help available.

 

I don't think I still have the original PE letters, I'll have a look but its doubtful. I've got the two from DRP.

[Mr_Bingley]

I haven't got the old PE letters, date of the alleged offence is 27/08/2013

 

I don't know when the first letter landed, sorry, not much help am I.

[f16]

Be useful if you can find them.

Intresting what your saying on the "exit" time on the car park. They have only said "2 hours free parking". Not that this includes entering and exiting because at those particular times you were not "parked" but driving aibeit slowly.

[Mr_Bingley]

Be useful if you can find them.

Intresting what your saying on the "exit" time on the car park. They have only said "2 hours free parking". Not that this includes entering and exiting because at those particular times you were not "parked" but driving aibeit slowly.

 

Yeah, that's the key, however as its a 5hr drive to the car park I can't have a drive over to see exactly what it says or where the camera is located

[f16]

Try Google Street it has been good before. It will not take you in the car park but you can "rotate" the camra etc

 

You said #1 That you were on holiday. Would the owner of where you stayed assist you with photos?

[Mr_Bingley]

Try Google Street it has been good before. It will not take you in the car park but you can "rotate" the camra etc

 

You said #1 That you were on holiday. Would the owner of where you stayed assist you with photos?

 

My parents own the caravan we stay in. The site is closed November - March so they will be heading down at some point to open up. I'll find out when they are planning to visit next and ask them to collect the necessary information. It might be later than the cut off date for a response to DRP though is that OK?

 

I'll also have a look what's available on google maps when I get in tonight!

[ericsbrother]

DR+ are toothless rentathreats so no danger of them doing anything other than sending you another letter.

PE have takena lot of people to court but lose nearly all the defended claims so they are abusing the courts process as another method of debt collection so it is very likely that nothing will happen at all.

If you do get a county court claim then come back here as there are several ways of fighting a claim, including challenging the technicalities of their methodology for clooecting and time stamping the images

[Homer67]

Don't respond to DRP as you do not need to, they cannot do anything other than refer back to their client Parking Pie when they get no response from you. If you do respond to DRP it will only encourage them to hassle you more. As you have already ignored Parking Pie's notice to keeper (it has to be an NTK as it was not a windscreen invoice) the only thing you can do is wait to see if they do issue court papers then come back here for advice on your defence which has proved successful in the majority of cases that are defended - I actually am not aware of any unsuccessful cases where the proper defence has been entered.

[Nev Met]

It may be worth you considering submitting a (late) appeal to Parking Eye on the grounds that you have already mentioned.

 

The following text is from a draft POPLA appeal that I use for the Rheidol Retail Park in Aberystwyth, operated by Parking Eye, but with the exact same problem that caused you to (apparently) overstay:-

 

5.0 Entering, Parking and Exiting.

 

5.1 The Respondent uses ANPR camera’s at the entrance/exit of the car park. The cameras only record the time that a vehicle enters the car park and when it leaves, they do not record the actual parking event or the point at which the contract to park is entered into. There are six separate actions involved here that relate to the parking event.

 

5.1.1 Driving into the car park. (Entry time recorded on ANPR).

 

5.1.2 Parking the car in an empty parking space.

 

5.1.3 Reading the terms and conditions of parking offered at the retail park.

 

5.1.4 Acceptance of those terms and conditions by remaining at the car park.

 

5.1.5 Driving out of the parking space.

 

5.1.6 Driving out of the car park. (Exit time recorded on ANPR).

 

5.2 The times of the actual ‘parking under contract’ event therefore differ significantly from the entry and exit times recorded by the Respondent’s ANPR cameras. Furthermore, the Respondent’s ANPR system takes no account of the regular problems in effecting a speedy departure due to the road layout and exit. There are often tail backs and it is not uncommon for a motorist to wait some considerable time to leave, during which time, when no longer parked under contract but waiting to get out time soon ticks away until one is at the front of the queue and the ANPR camera captures the exiting image.

 

5.3 The BPA Ltd Code of Practice requires that parking operators can only rely on ANPR evidence if it does so in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Thus the Respondent has to recognise that it takes time to get in, find a space, consider the terms and conditions and then eventually to leave.

 

5.4 The Respondent’s claim for an £85 parking charge for an alleged overstay based solely of the entry and exit times recorded by the Respondent’s ANPR cameras is therefore fatally flawed and cannot be relied upon, on a balance of probabilities, to prove its case.

 

Now it's your judgement call as to whether or not to continue to ignore or try your hand at a late appeal based on those same grounds that you raised. It's a bit of a gamble.

 

If you continue to ignore and you do get taken to court then even if you won (and that's not a guarantee because the courts are not as consistent than POPLA is - at the moment) you could still get stuffed for costs against you because your failure to respond resulted in the time and expense of the court hearing.

 

If you submit a late appeal (along the grounds suggested) you not only reduce the risks of those costs but you may even be able to argue your own position back into a POPLA appeal - it's not unheard off but I have to admit it is something that Parking Eye would equally strenuously argue against.

 

However, if Parking Eye believe that this is your sole ground for appeal then they might then just go along with it in the full knowledge that such an appeal would be a win for them at POPLA.

 

If you did manage to squirrel a POPLA Code out of them then of course your POPLA appeal would be on 'genuine pre-estimate of loss'

 

As I say it's your judgement call, this is just another option to consider - no one else can decide for you, only you.

[Mr_Bingley]

That's interesting it is the exact same carpark Rheidol Retail Park in Aberystwyth!

 

I don't even have parking eyes derails to make a late case.

[Nev Met]

Did you shop in the Retail Park at all on the day?

 

If so did you actually spend any money (and how much)

 

Do you have any proof (receipt or bank statement) of the expenditure at all.

 

Finally, there is a Lidl's on that Retail Park and it is notorious for the number of times their card machines fail at the checkout - when this happens (frequently) customers have to leave their trolleys with the shopping at the store and go to the Lloyds bank cashpoint on foot (about half a mile away to withdraw cash) - if this happened on that day (that's if you can remember) then that's another ground for a late appeal.

[Mr_Bingley]

Hi guys, as the 7th of March is fast approaching I was thinking that maybe I should write to parking eye and send a copy of the letter to DRP explaining that I've received two letters from DRP, but no details of any offence. Say that I'm concerned its a [problem] as no correspondence, direct from PE, has been received, if it is infact a genuine could they re-send any previous correspondence. then just respond with my appeal direct to PE stating that I wasn't parked over the two hour limit and appeal against the parking charge.

 

yes or no?

[Mr_Bingley]

Letter drafted

Re: Demand for payment of an unpaid parking charge£135.00

To whom it may concern,

I have now received two letters Debt Recovery Plus Ltdstating that I must pay an unpaid parking charge of £135.00 for exceeding amaximum stay in the Rheidol Retail Park car park.

I received the first letter dated 06/02/2014 andtitled “Demand for payment of an unpaid parking charge £135.00” and as I wasunsure as to the authenticity of the letter I chose to ignore it. I then receivedthe second letter dated 21/02/2014 and titled “Notice of intended court action –unpaid parking charge £135.00” which has prompted me to contact you.

As I have had no communication from you prior to receivingthese threatening letters from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd I would like you toconfirm that there is a genuine case to be answered and if so then pleaseforward the full details of the alleged offence so that I can review andrespond accordingly.

[themagician]

Letter drafted

 

Re: Demand for payment of an unpaid parking charge£135.00

 

To whom it may concern,

 

I have now received two letters Debt Recovery Plus Ltdstating that I must pay an unpaid parking charge of £135.00 for exceeding amaximum stay in the Rheidol Retail Park car park.

 

I received the first letter dated 06/02/2014 andtitled “Demand for payment of an unpaid parking charge £135.00” and as I wasunsure as to the authenticity of the letter I chose to ignore it. I then receivedthe second letter dated 21/02/2014 and titled “Notice of intended court action –unpaid parking charge £135.00” which has prompted me to contact you.

 

As I have had no communication from you prior to receivingthese threatening letters from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd I would like you toconfirm that there is a genuine case to be answered and if so then pleaseforward the full details of the alleged offence so that I can review andrespond accordingly.

please check your punctuation as it makes it easier to read.cheers.

[Homer67]

I never have and never will respond to any Debt Collector with anything other than 'Any alleged debt is denied, refer to your client'. IMO as soon as you let them know you are a live contact they will continue to hassle you.