Utility Bills and Guests

[tenant17]

I have stumbled across this forum and have had a read through the articles, posts and stickies but haven't stumbled across anything which explains the scenario I am in:

 

I am leaving my house share after 6 months and have come to the point where bills are to be split among house mates. I have a partner, which was made apparent to all housemates during initial discussion before we moved in with each other (none of the other house mates have partners). The LL of the house is a parent of one of my housemates.

 

Reading through my contract I was aware that there was a section that referred to frequent guests and that a contribution to bills would be required. I am in the situation now where I have put in my request to leave as I am moving into another house. I have received an email from my housemates explaining that they were unhappy about the number of times my partner had stayed without receiving a contribution to bills from her. With the email I received a suggested contribution which was supposedly reached with guidance from the LL.

 

I am happy to pay a contribution towards the bills for my partner staying over however the figures suggested were extremely unreasonable and had no explanation as to how they had been reached. The breakdown of the bills suggested that my partner would pay the same as myself and other house mates for water and sewage and 50% of myself and other house mates for gas and electricity. This proportion I have still yet to understand and have not received an explanation even though I has asked for one.

 

I returned an email explaining that I was disappointed that I was not involved in this initial discussion and gave my own suggestion of a contribution based on the average time spent by my partner at the property (as an excel spreadsheet). This was also backed up with reasons that constrain the hours of when my partner can stay at the house and how my partner uses the facilities in the house.

 

I am at the point now where a number of emails have been passed backwards and forwards and no figure has been agreed and ultimately my LL has suggested that my partner does not stay round until the matter is resolved. I also feel that one housemate in particular is driving an excessive figure for the bill contributions as this is shown in the emails I receive from them and that they clearly do not have an understanding of the cost of running specific appliances within the house.

 

I would just like to ask a few question with regards to the scenario and would like for people with any experience of this to contribute as to how they feel would be best to resolve this matter.

 

Is guidance from the LL allowed when considering bills, especially when there is a possible conflict of interest?

 

The tenancy contract I signed states that a "contribution" should be made for guests staying, but does not define how much the "contribution" should be. How is this contribution determined in legal terms?

 

In a tenancy contract where the term "day/days" is used and is not explained or stated, does this mean that a day can be legally determined as either a 24 hour period of time or a time period from midnight to midnight?

 

Many thanks for your time.

[Lea_HTH]

How many days/nights did your partner stay out of the six month period you have been in the property?

 

1. How do you know the LL is not acting in his/her capacity as a parent in advising their child re how to split the bills? There is nothing wrong in the LL having an input - and certainly nothing wrong in the parent of a child explaining how to work such things out.

 

2. Contribution would almost certainly be based on the time the additional person spent in the property.

 

3.A period from midnight to midnight - a day is a 24 hour period, i.e. not a series of hours making up 24 hours.

[raydetinu]

The split they propose sounds fair, however should be modified by the actual time spent at the house ( say 20 days per month; the split amount x20 divided by 30 )

[tenant17]

Thank you both for your contribution, it is certainly helpful.

 

To answer the questions, my partner stays about 3 days a week as an average (there are obviously times when my partner doesn't stay and as a maximum up to 4 times a week). The two reasons I proposed the number of hours spent in a stay was to:

 

1. Explain in numerical terms why an expected payment by my partner of an equal share of the water and sewage bill was an over estimation in my opinion, and;

 

2. My partner only stays over at certain periods of time during the day due to work commitments and hobbies, which is early evening to early morning - which I feel is very different to a few of the threads I have read on this forum where people are basically living with their partners in a house share.

 

Another point i'd like to make is that I am extremely wary of my partner utilising energy when spending time with myself in the house - to the point where the only facility that my partner uses where it is not for my direct purpose, is the shower, and this is only used when my partner stays during the week.

[raydetinu]

just checking but from your initial post it appears you have not paid any utilities for the six months, is this correct?

what is the amount of money we are talking about here and exactly in monetary terms is you counter proposal?

[tenant17]

You are right yes, we are all paying into a bills account each month and have just got our quarterly bills.

 

Bills are as follows:

 

Gas and Electricity - £509

Water/Sewage - £200

 

Contribution (proposed by my housemate):

Gas/ Electric (housemates) : £113

Gas/ Electric (partner): £57

Water Sewage: £40 (housemates and partner)

 

Contribution proposed by myself (based on average hours stayed):

 

Total for housemates: £167

Total for partner: £41

 

They then produced a counter offer which seems more logical and was calculated using the spreadsheet I had put together:

 

Total for housemates £158

Total for partner: £79

 

I am now in the position of coming to an agreement with them. As the first contribution they produced was not explained and does not have any logic to it then I am going to try and meet them half way, between my original offer and their new offer. Does this seem a fair approach.

[raydetinu]

So there are 4 housemates plus your partner.

Now my logic says that the contribution of your partner is based pro rata on the time they are there, taking into account that gas and electric would be used by you even if partner not there, hence the 50% proposed is about right.

so

G&E would be for partner 509/5 =101.8 x3/7 = 43.63 x .5 = £21.82.

water/sewerage 200/5 = 40x3/7= £17.14.

therefore partner contribution is £38.96 (about same as you came up with)

take this from the total and split between the remaining 4.

121.8 + 45.72 = £167.52

[mariner51]

How many flatmates are there, inc yourself but not your partner?

 

Is water metered or half yearly water rate?

 

Your partner has effectively been living with you for 3.5 days/wk (rent free?) and you have had the 'comfort' of partner staying over.

 

So assuming 3 tenants and half a guest / month, divide all bills by 7 and split pro rata so each T pays 2/7 and your guest 1/7th

 

Quarterly Gas & Elec £509 Water £200 = £709 total so each T pays £202.50, your 'guest contributes £101.25

 

A 4th person staying 3.5 days/wk would have increased expected wear & tear slightly for 3 people over 6 months, so don't be tight with your final offer.

 

I bet you are fun in restaurants when it is time to divide the bill.

[tenant17]

I'll ignore the above post as you clearly have missed the point completely, I have asked for advice in a situation I am unfamiliar with not a cross examination on what I am like with my money. Plus your calculation makes no sense and anyone can see from my proposed totals that there are in fact 4 housemates including myself.

 

Raydetinu, thanks for your post, that is where I was coming from in terms of the use of the majority of electricty/gas when my partner is over. However having been advised that a day is not counted as a cumulative number of hours totaling 24, I will probably try and meet my housemates halfway.

 

Any more advice on the matter is welcome.

[mariner51]

Ignore my post if you wish. My example calculation was based on 3 Ts + 1 guest. It is easily adapted to 4+1.

If your partner spent average of 3.5 days / wk for 6 months, for similar periods as other Ts eg 4pm-8am, then I suggest their reasonable utility bill contribution would be one ninth of total bill. You can compare this amount with other alternative calculations offered. You are free to choose your preferred option.

I did not cross-examine you on what you are like with your money, merely a presumption.

Your Q is not really a LL&T query, but how to maintain good relations with your ex flat mates & partner. Your choice.

[Steve__M]

My experience is based on living in a shared house for many years (including with people who had visiting partners), and on experience as a landlord with sharing tenants. Take it as a general post rather than being specifically about your situation.

 

You mention being not involved in the initial discussion. Possibly the other tenants may feel you should have instigated the discussion in the first place.

 

While someone may think their partner was quiet as a mouse, never used any power, was perfect in all regards etc. the co-tenants may feel the partner filled the kettle too much, showered for hours, used 3 times, made noise, spoilt the atmosphere of the house...etc. etc. One of my housemates had the room with the en-suite, but his girlfriend would use the main bathroom and would get through a whole roll of loo paper per day - which annoyed me at the time!

 

They may also feel that they did not agree to share with an extra person, and may feel a contribution to rent is due. This may be particularly the case if the partner is in the house when the tenant is not there, or if they had a key (I don't think you said whether your partner had a key or not).

 

A common "standard" is that people with partners stay half the time at one place and half at the other - so evening out costs between the two houses. The co-tenants may think that a "frequent guest" is once every 2-3 weekends, whereas 3-4 times a week is "another tenant".

 

So in short, the discussion may not be just about the money for the utilities.

[raydetinu]

Another tenant is not the question posed by OP but valid, if the other tenants wish to raise it!

especially if partner stays overnight frequently.

[tezza1234]

Ok lets throw this into the mix, This tenants partner stays on average 3.5 times a week right, between say 6pm and 8am, the partner may use the toilet 3-4 times, the partner may spend the rest of the time in the tenants room (which is already paid for) and not disrupting anyone.

The tenant may also stay at the partners address 1-2-3 times a week. I think the other housemates are just a bunch of sado singletons who need to get some action.

[ericsbrother]

Is the property registered as a HMO? It looks to me as though you are students living in a house purchased by the parents of one of your housemates and are splitting the costs of looking after their loved one in a manner that may seem equitable but really has no place in a tenancy agreement. You either have a tenancy that gives you certain rights as a tenant or nothing at all. A tenancy agreement should have a head tenancy (one would presume child of landlord) and basically they are responsible for the bills. I can see others getting upset that they have to pay extra for toilet roll and washing up liquid but the costs of the water rates are fixed for the property and asking someone who already lives elsewhere and presumably pays bill for doing so to cough up extra when there is no additional expense is a bit rich.

The alternative would be a tenancy that says only the assigned persons may stay there and that usually means that guests may only stop occasionally and certainly no more than 2 night a week (applied by councils assessing who lives in a property) and if that is the case then you should have been chucked out by now.

I would offer to pay any genuine expense brought about by your partner's staying there and that would be extra consumables for washing, showering, cooking etc and also include the cost of the extra fuel used as a direct consequence of their being there such as electric for a shower but not a share of the heating and lighting as they would be payable as a matter of course.