DWP - After death (benefit) reclaim

[CambridgeAki]

Hello there,

 

I have deep concern in regards to the DWP and what they're claiming I owe them from my late fathers estate, he unfortunately passed away 2 years ago of Motor Neurone Disease and left my mother with a few outstanding debts.

 

We sold a property prior to his death and the money was transferred to me in advance due to the fact his ability to eat, drink, think and communicate deteriated rapidly and it came to a point he could barely type on an ipad to speak so therefore did the best he could in offering me the money they had prior to his death.

 

Upon his death, I used the money to pay off existing debts outstanding upto about £35,000.00, once the debts were paid I then invested their money into a property which I and my sister now pay the rest of the mortgage on to give my mother a roof over her head and the final yet small amount of funds available went to the solicitor for doing absolutely nothing yet charging for it. The DWP although two years since my dads death are saying there was a period he was overpaid pension credit and we now owe them £5800(ish) pounds.

 

I have no doubt that we owe them this money because although he was dying and was entitled to pension credit, there was a point we had enough money to not claim the maximum amount entitled however due to ill health my father didn't change that and I wasn't aware that this would be the outcome.

 

My question is, is it possible to pay back half the outstanding balance and call it a day or will they basically demand the money in anyway shape or form, they've told me via telephone that I have a month, unless I can't pay up I have two years in which they want a lump sum (based on bank statements) The thing is I'm not executor, I'm just trying to stop my mum from suffering anymore.

[estellyn]

Not sure about this one.

 

I've dealt with a couple of these types of cases before, but in every case, the capital in the estate had been spent and the family member had no lump sum themselves, so I was able to make payment arrangements. I assume that as far as they see it, any capital you have is partly comprised of your father's estate, so they certainly have a case in court.

 

If you really don't have the lump sum to give, make a written offer of payment in manageable instalments providing proof of your current capital and income, showing what you can and can't afford.

[CambridgeAki]

Not sure about this one.

 

I've dealt with a couple of these types of cases before, but in every case, the capital in the estate had been spent and the family member had no lump sum themselves, so I was able to make payment arrangements. I assume that as far as they see it, any capital you have is partly comprised of your father's estate, so they certainly have a case in court.

 

If you really don't have the lump sum to give, make a written offer of payment in manageable instalments providing proof of your current capital and income, showing what you can and can't afford.

 

Thanks for your help, Well we have a house off of the back of the estate which is my mothers irrespective of who's paying the mortgage, I just want it over with, we genuinely weren't trying to dodge anything or be clever, I was just a 25 year old who'd never faced this type of responsibility before in my entire life, a solicitor we overpaid to sincerely do absolutely nothing but forward bank states to the DWP and charge the earth for it over 18 months. We were given the grant of probate and I was advised by the solicitor we can do as we wish with the estate to then be told 4 months later that the DWP are questioning my fathers pension credit.

 

I have some money (that will cover the majority of the outstanding) I'd personally saved myself however I'll just have to sacrifice it for the over payment.

[estellyn]

Sorry, there really isn't any way around it. I would suggest you write offering an instalment plan first before sacrificing your savings. But yes, it's a very difficult thing to happen - the family lose someone very dear, have to deal with everything that goes with that, think everything is sorted and treat any inheritance accordingly, and then find out there is a DWP overpayment - I really do feel for you and your family.

[citizenkain]

the DWP always do this,they call it protecting public funds, when my father died six years ago now,there was a bit of a run on with his pension credit which I didnt know about,when I cleared his bank accounts I just distributed the money between my two sisters and brother,I didnt give myself anything,couple a months later they sent me a bill,I had to pay back the money I had distributed,thats the way they are.

[sparky514]

When my Mam passed away, she had an overpayment of about £5 something from her old age pension, and they sent us a bill for that, and we had to pay it back, you think they wouldn't bother for that small amount x

[tokenfield]

Not sure about this one.

 

I've dealt with a couple of these types of cases before, but in every case, the capital in the estate had been spent and the family member had no lump sum themselves, so I was able to make payment arrangements. .

 

If an estate has no assets but has debts - those debts die with the deceased unless they were joint ones.

 

Not quite sure what you are saying - the family had the deceased money, spent it and then had to repay the DWP?? Yes quite correct - the question I would want to ask is who was the Executor/Administrator??? Whoever it was made a hash of it!!

[tokenfield]

Thanks for your help, Well we have a house off of the back of the estate which is my mothers irrespective of who's paying the mortgage, I just want it over with, we genuinely weren't trying to dodge anything or be clever, I was just a 25 year old who'd never faced this type of responsibility before in my entire life, a solicitor we overpaid to sincerely do absolutely nothing but forward bank states to the DWP and charge the earth for it over 18 months. We were given the grant of probate and I was advised by the solicitor we can do as we wish with the estate to then be told 4 months later that the DWP are questioning my fathers pension credit.

 

I have some money (that will cover the majority of the outstanding) I'd personally saved myself however I'll just have to sacrifice it for the over payment.

 

Sue the solicitor!!!!

[tokenfield]

Thanks for your help, Well we have a house off of the back of the estate which is my mothers irrespective of who's paying the mortgage, I just want it over with, we genuinely weren't trying to dodge anything or be clever, I was just a 25 year old who'd never faced this type of responsibility before in my entire life, a solicitor we overpaid to sincerely do absolutely nothing but forward bank states to the DWP and charge the earth for it over 18 months. We were given the grant of probate and I was advised by the solicitor we can do as we wish with the estate to then be told 4 months later that the DWP are questioning my fathers pension credit.

 

I have some money (that will cover the majority of the outstanding) I'd personally saved myself however I'll just have to sacrifice it for the over payment.

 

The process is that the Administrator/Executor first of all pays HMRC any Inheritance Tax due, then gathers all of the funds of the estate, writes to all known and possible creditors including the DWP, places an ad in two newspapers including one national one/London Gazette advising of a date by which the estate will be finalised and distributed and for anybody that is owed money by the deceased to contact the Administrator/Executor by that date with proof of that debt. Once that date is passed, the estate settles all known debts and any balance left over goes to the beneficiaries.

 

I can't see why the DWP are now coming back for the money unless someone failed to contact them shortly after death and/or they didn't advertise for final proofs.

 

Secondly I can't see how it was possible for the beneficiaries to have the money without going through the process.

 

If a solicitor was acting - then that is a case for complaint and compensation.

[tokenfield]

Well we have a house off of the back of the estate which is my mothers irrespective of who's paying the mortgage, I have some money (that will cover the majority of the outstanding) I'd personally saved myself however I'll just have to sacrifice it for the over payment.

 

I do hope that you disclosed the property sale just prior to death to HMRC? It could be seen as attempting to reduce the value of the estate to avoid either paying the estate's debts or tax.

[CambridgeAki]

I do hope that you disclosed the property sale just prior to death to HMRC? It could be seen as attempting to reduce the value of the estate to avoid either paying the estate's debts or tax.

 

The property we purchased was bought 9 months after the death, the sale of the previous property was declared within the estate to HMRC.

 

The solicitor was unfortunately executor and my mother was the sole beneficiary of the estate.

 

No tax was avoided, unfortunately my fathers ability to not communicate left us within a period of claiming too much pension credit. I'm just going to pay the majority anyway and install the rest over 4 months (if they accept it)

[estellyn]

If an estate has no assets but has debts - those debts die with the deceased unless they were joint ones.

 

Not quite sure what you are saying - the family had the deceased money, spent it and then had to repay the DWP?? Yes quite correct - the question I would want to ask is who was the Executor/Administrator??? Whoever it was made a hash of it!!

 

What I wasn't sure about was the action the DWP could take against the estate if the full amount wasn't offered - not my area, and not a situation I've come across. I was suggesting that a payment plan might be acceptable, in the circumstances if reasonable and put in writing.

 

These circumstances often occur in the real world - you know, not the nice neat one of your imaginings - how many times on this board do people post that the DWP is coming after them for an overpayment just now discovered, but from a few years before. This is what happens if the person who incurred the overpayment dies and their estate settled and distributed prior to the DWP discovery of the overpayment.

 

The estate had assets, therefore the beneficiaries are liable for the debt

[tokenfield]

What I wasn't sure about was the action the DWP could take against the estate if the full amount wasn't offered - not my area, and not a situation I've come across. I was suggesting that a payment plan might be acceptable, in the circumstances if reasonable and put in writing.

 

These circumstances often occur in the real world - you know, not the nice neat one of your imaginings - how many times on this board do people post that the DWP is coming after them for an overpayment just now discovered, but from a few years before. This is what happens if the person who incurred the overpayment dies and their estate settled and distributed prior to the DWP discovery of the overpayment.

 

The estate had assets, therefore the beneficiaries are liable for the debt

 

I find it impossible to accept that if the estate was wound up in the correct manner, notice would have been lodged in at least two public newspapers including the London Gazette that any creditor that did not lodge a proof of debt by the given date, they would lose all right to have their claim admitted into the estate.

 

Simply that they left it far too late to ask for the money to be repaid.

[scotgal68]

I would refer the DWP to the executor/solicitor as the responsibility of winding up the estate lies squarely with them, and any executor/solicitor worth their salt should have made sure the DWP was included in the list of possible creditors, particularly as your father was suffering from a condition which would give entitlement to more benefits x

[estellyn]

How many times do I need to explain this ?? I'll try to make it clearer.

 

Overpayments caused by a claimant not notifying them of something, for instance savings, income, any change of circumstances are not immediately obvious to the DWP - they are not psychic. On winding up the claim on a person's death, they don't suddenly have awareness of all the things a claimant forgot to tell them about during the life of the claim. These things will often become apparent at a later date, for instance due to data matching, HMRC info, etc etc.

 

On closing a claim there isn't an intensive search to check if Mr Bloggs forgot to tell them something, was dishonest in his claim or downright fraudulent. Use common sense - these things come to light later (or sometimes never) and are unfortunate for those left behind, but the reality is that in these circumstances the DWP has every right to collect the money from any capital that was left in the estate. In some cases the overpayment would be due to a mistake on the part of the claimant or family, in others it will be due to fraudulent activity. In either case it was state funds, and the DWP WILL and can reclaim it.