Marlin Court Action on HSBC CC, HSBC already said they hold no CCA - help

[ZENTRIX9]

several threads merged for background info

thread tidied and moved to legal forum

 

dx

Thanks DX

[SWLABR9]

I confess to being confused by this. If the debt's unenforcable, as it clearly is, how can any claim on it go to court?

[dx100uk]

sri are all the merged thread relevant or your wifes one?

 

dx

[ZENTRIX9]

Most are to do with my wife's card not mine

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

 

dx

[gem77]

Exactly same thing has happened to me. POC is identical except for dates and amounts.

 

I also requested a cca from them back in 2010 got a printed off form which they had just written my maiden name, date of birth and address at the time of taking out the credit card. Also states in the covering letter they dont have the original.

 

Got court papers last week from Marlin not too sure what way to take this so if you dont mind I will follow your thread.

[ZENTRIX9]

I confess to being confused by this. If the debt's unenforcable, as it clearly is, how can any claim on it go to court?

 

What makes it unenforceable? my wife hss been issued a ccj on her account and the judge would not allow her to appeal. Stitched up good and proper all done over the phone as a conference call

[Bazooka Boo]

What makes it unenforceable? If the agreement is pre 2007 then they have to produce the original agreement in court. Post 2007 (April) a recon can be used and is deemed enforceable.

my wife has been issued a ccj on her account and the judge would not allow her to appeal. Then IMO this would be grounds to have the judgement set aside, she has every right to submit a defence.

Stitched up good and proper all done over the phone as a conference call

 

A conference call? Never heard of that being legal?

Could she not attend in person?

[SWLABR9]

What makes it unenforceable? my wife hss been issued a ccj on her account and the judge would not allow her to appeal. Stitched up good and proper all done over the phone as a conference call

I said I was confused. I was confused because there were more than one debt being discussed, though I didn't realise it at the time!

[ZENTRIX9]

Hi Bazooka, my wife doesnt handle things like this well so I have been representing her. The court arranged for a conference call between me, the claimant and the judge. The judge (she) wasnt very helpful, said that the document provided was legal and wouldnt budge, I kept saying that it wasnt legal as there were no prescribed terms and conditions within the 4 corners. So she found for the claimant, I said that I would appeal and she said that you have to ask if you can appeal and she said that it was denied. So the wife has to pay. She got a CCJ and ordered to pay, however we havent paid them a penny yet or agreed an amount so technically although the court has ruled we still have not admitted the debt.

Is it worth trying to get a setaside? The debt is approx £7k but we have just got a letter saying they would accept just over £5k. Think they are afraid that we might appeal?

 

They did supply a copy of the agreement (photocopy I think) but I have been told on CAG in the past that it was an application form not a contract, which I told the judge (I didnt mention CAG)

[ZENTRIX9]

Exactly same thing has happened to me. POC is identical except for dates and amounts.

 

I also requested a cca from them back in 2010 got a printed off form which they had just written my maiden name, date of birth and address at the time of taking out the credit card. Also states in the covering letter they dont have the original.

 

Got court papers last week from Marlin not too sure what way to take this so if you dont mind I will follow your thread.

 

No problem Gem, I will post up everything that happens so you can see.

[Bazooka Boo]

I would definitely be looking to have this dubious CCJ set aside yes.

 

I would also be lodging a formal complaint about the DJ to the MOJ too, I've never heard anything so childish!

 

This sounds extremely suspect to me, if they have been awarded a CCJ then they can claim and add interest to the amount, so quite why they are now offering a discount on a 7k debt smacks of total incompetence and some shady goings on??

[ZENTRIX9]

I would definitely be looking to have this dubious CCJ set aside yes.

 

I would also be lodging a formal complaint about the DJ to the MOJ too, I've never heard anything so childish!

 

This sounds extremely suspect to me, if they have been awarded a CCJ then they can claim and add interest to the amount, so quite why they are now offering a discount on a 7k debt smacks of total incompetence and some shady goings on??

 

Yes and we now have a charging order on our property because of it

[Old Cogger]

Just a question this is notthe Torbay area court Judge by any chance?

[ZENTRIX9]

No, it was Stafford

[Old Cogger]

No, it was Stafford

 

 

 

Ah! O.K. just thought sounded familiar. as stated complain to Ministry of Justice maybe?

[Bazooka Boo]

Here you are Zen, the address to complain about the judge http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/how-to-enforce-your-rights/courts-and-legal-services/complaints-about-judges.html

The Office for Judicial Complaints

4th Floor

Clive House

Petty France

London

SW1H 9HD

Tel: 020 7189 2937

customer@ojc.gsi.gov.uk

http://www.judicialcomplaints.gov.uk

[gem77]

Hi. Thanks Zentrix9.

 

Can someone shed any light on the original question asked about the HSBC account going to court even after the debt was in dispute as there was no original agreement and HSBC admitted to this. What would be a fesable defence?

 

Many thanks

[Bazooka Boo]

IMO I would say that they have failed to follow CPR guidelines, and yes your legal request for the original agreement should have been very relevant and something which the DJ should have taken into account.

 

I fail to see how you can't get this set aside?

[ZENTRIX9]

Thanks Bazooka

[ZENTRIX9]

I have to submit my defense by the 19th.

 

HSBC didnt supply me with a copy of my CCA so they failed to comply to my CCA request.

I have a letter from HSBC stating that this debt has been sold to Marlin Europe.I also have a letter from HSBC stating that they cannot find the original paperwork for this debt. The debt was and still is in dispute with HSBC as they did not follow CPR guidelines. HSBC has sold the debt while it is still in dispute and I would like this claim struck out.

 

Anything I should add?

 

POC is #2

Edited June 13, 2013 by ZENTRIX9

[gem77]

Hi Zen,

Take a look at this thread. It has a defense in it and seems to be very similar to our situation just a different creditor.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?392653-County-Court-Claim-Form-Response&p=4259728#post4259728

[TM123]

The above defence could fail. HSBC does not need the original agreement.

 

Error 1) If a bank or creditor cannot provide the original credit agreement then they cannot enforce the agreement in Court. Also if they don’t have the original then they cannot reconstitute the agreement.

 

http://Link removed

Edited June 17, 2013 by Andyorch
Link removed

[TM123]

So what if you don’t have the original agreement? well the burden does rest on the debtor to make a positive assertion about the original agreement, as the law stands , unless the debtor is able to make a positive assertion that the agreement was unenforceable because….. or that there never was a signed agreement…………………….(Please note: This only applies for agreements signed before 6th April 2007) then it is going to be very difficult to challenge the enforceability of the credit agreement.

[gem77]

The POC is actually stating that there is a written agreement. Surely if they cant show that written agreement or more to the point don't have the written agreement it would not stand in court?