Unfair charge for unused Available Capacity Electrical Supply

[SimonSmith]

Hi I am a new user, could you please read below and advise which forum i should post to. I'm most grateful and please excuse my inexperience with this site.

 

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We purchased an industrial property around 7 years ago. The previous owners had a high capacity electrical supply fitted to cater for their needs.

 

Our present energy supplier SEE are charging us £805 per month! (almost £70,000 over 7 years), for the facility to use large amounts of electricity if we want to.

 

I recently joined the present owner of the property and have been auditing our expenses. I cannot understand why this hasn't been dealt with up to now, nevertheless I have queried this with the supplier and told them that for the past 7 years we have been using around 10% of the available capacity and whilst we should have queried it sooner they too should have pointed out that we had no need for this type of supply.

 

The gentleman I spoke to said there was nothing he could do as it's our responsibility to read and query invoices. I said that he was right in principal, however there was a moral obligation or at least expectation after say 6 months, a year, 2 years, for them to serve us in a morally acceptable way, in spite of our own error. He was not forthcoming.

 

I spoke to Citizen's advice who said there may be grounds for arguing that it was an unfair contract.

 

Has anyone had any experience with this they can share, or any advice on this.

 

My feeling is that SEE should return a significant part of the £70,000.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Simon

 

 

Edited May 10, 2013 by SimonSmith

[ims21]

Hi

 

I have moved your thread to the utilities forum where you may get a better response.

[SimonSmith]

thanks so much!

[nottslad]

Hi there Simon

 

The Agreed Supply Capacity (ASC) sometimes known as Availability or KVA is an agreement between the customer and the electricity distributor in the area.

 

A supply agreement will have been set up between the then customer and the distributor at some point and unless this is queried with them it won't be amended.

 

Electricity suppliers cannot amend availability. The availability charges are a pass-through charge from the distributor for having at any point a certain level of electricity available.

 

You need to call your distributor with the supply number (MPAN) from your bill and ask them to reduce the available capacity. It may also be an idea to ask your supplier to change the meter to a non half-hourly meter as the charges may well be much lower

[SimonSmith]

Thanks nottslad,

 

I have been in touch with EDF who are the distributor and hope to resolve things henceforth. Given the amount of money involved, do you think I'm flogging a dead horse. Would an ombudsman not see some unfair practice, even if unintentional?

 

Simon

[nottslad]

in my experience the Ombudsman wouldn't deem the supplier at fault if they have made available the half hourly data and the maximum demand info, is this on the bills or is there any instruction on the bills as to how to to access this?

 

it may be worth a shot as from the sounds of things you would come under the SME market rather than I&C (industrial and commercial) - if you're not using that much power I would strongly suggest looking at possibly downgrading the meter to non half hourly maximum demand (ask the supplier for a change of measurement class)

 

Not sure if you're aware, the maximum Ombudsman award is 5%, so it may be worth writing a formal complaint to the supplier and outlining you are going to go down that route, they may then make an offer?

[Surfer01]

I am a bit unsure on this but normally the Availability Charge is a signed contract between the owner and the supplier. If there is a charge of ownership I think a new contract should have to be signed, but perhaps Nottslad can confirm. Also the fact that the AC was not used for several years should have made the supplier query this and contact the owner to adjust the AC. However get onto the supplier to reduce the AC as soon as possible and make sure it is in writing also.

[nottslad]

Hi Surfer

 

Availability charges form part of the connection agreement between the distribution network operator (DNO) and the customer, this is a pass-through charge although the supplier invoices through the monthly / quarterly bill.

 

Suppliers cannot take any action to change this (unless they cut you off!)

 

It would be an interesting case to take to the Ombudsman I guess

[Surfer01]

Hi Surfer

Availability charges form part of the connection agreement between the distribution network operator (DNO) and the customer, this is a pass-through charge although the supplier invoices through the monthly / quarterly bill.

Suppliers cannot take any action to change this (unless they cut you off!)

It would be an interesting case to take to the Ombudsman I guess

 

In this case there is no connection agreement between the distribution company and the new occupier because the supplier never notified the distribution company. In light of what you have stated it may be worth SimonSmith challenging the supplier about the AC as the supplier never advised them about AC except to bill them for it.

I am fairly sure that suppliers are notified by the distribution company when AC is not been used and that the supplier is notified in writing on a regular basis and is requested to make changes.

[SimonSmith]

Thanks nottslad and surfer,

 

The original opening of the account would have happened a good 7 years ago way before my time and may well have been at our companies' request or at least knowledge.

 

Question is, if as Surfer is saying that the supplier/distributer should have highlighted the low usage against AC during the last 7 years. Ane which of them is responsible to advise the end user?

 

Simon

[nottslad]

If it is a deemed contract in place, such as a change of occupancy had occurred and the KVA was set at the previous occupier's level, the supplier should be informing the new occupier when opening the new account the level of KVA and the deemed rates, how to reduce the KVA etc.

 

I can only speak for the power company I work for but we send a special delivery letter to new companies taking over a premesis to advise of this.

 

There is no obligation for power companies to highlight this in the corporate market, as long as they can give you this information upon request

[Surfer01]

If it is a deemed contract in place, such as a change of occupancy had occurred and the KVA was set at the previous occupier's level, the supplier should be informing the new occupier when opening the new account the level of KVA and the deemed rates, how to reduce the KVA etc.

 

I can only speak for the power company I work for but we send a special delivery letter to new companies taking over a premesis to advise of this.

 

There is no obligation for power companies to highlight this in the corporate market, as long as they can give you this information upon request

 

I am not sure if OP changed suppliers or has been with the same supplier since day one. I know someone who is an independent with a good track record who may be able to resolve the AC issue for the OP.

Proving that the supplier never notified the OP could be difficult even if a SAR was raised as I am not sure if a SAR will cover the duration of the supply. Even if the OP only gets back a portion it may be worth it.

Hopefully in the meantime the OP has requested the supplier to get the AC removed.

[SimonSmith]

SAR? OP? Sorry not up with all the abbreviations.

 

I think we can assume that our company will have had some dialogue with the supplier when we took occupation and perhaps thought we might need the increased capacity.

 

So for the sake of argument let's assume that we were aware and agreed to the increased capacity, at the time.

 

My question is, during the ensuing years is there a moral duty or at least expectation for the supplier to advise their customer that they are paying for something they don't need, to a huge extent?

 

Thanks again

 

Simon

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

SAR = Subject Access Request.(click on SAR )

OP = Origional Poster (You)