Son's Council Tax

[glynisd]

Hello

 

My son is 29 and is currently living with us. He had moved into a house of his own a few years ago but became unemployed and put the house on the market just as the credit crunch and housing market crashed. The house remained empty for 2 years and we managed to pay his mortgage and council tax for part of the time but eventually our finances no longer permitted it. We contacted the council and told them that the property was standing empty but we were struggling to find a buyer. They waived the council tax for 6 months only.

 

Chris is suffering from a form of depression - he rarely leaves the house - the last time was before Christmas. He doesn't even sign on for JSA. Luckily my husband and I both have good jobs.

 

Last year, he had a visit at our address from a bailiff (he didn't answer the door but a letter was pushed through) regarding his council tax arrears. I presume they took our address from the electoral roll. A further letter followed warning of imprisonment. An appointment had been made for him to attend but he couldn't leave the house so I got him to authorise me to deal with the council and I explained everything to the lady there. I said that, if the council sent me an itemised account of what was owing, from when and what had been paid already (because it was much more than it should have been), I would contact her with an offer of repayment. I presume either Chris had received communications from the court or the had been sent to his old address where the council tax was owed from.

 

I didn't receive any documents but I emailed the lady I'd spoken to at Capita and offered to repay the debt at £20 per month, asking again for an itemised bill and bank details so I could arrange a standing order. That was in October last year.

 

2 weeks ago, Chris received 3 separate letters with different amounts, from Equita, demanding payment or they would visit and seize goods. After a couple of days he received 3 further letters (in the same post), saying they were going to visit over the weekend with a van. We decided to wait and see if anyone came - we thought it might be interesting as this is not Chris's house, everything in it is in my husband's name (he's Chris's step-dad so our name is different) and we have always paid our council tax in full. Nobody came. I think my husband was disappointed to be honest

 

Yesterday Chris received 3 more letters (presumably trying to maximise on their charges). The amounts are £548, £769 and £855. My husband is certain that the amount outstanding is much less than this and that some payments have not been deducted. He is currently going through all the old paperwork which was in the loft.

 

I think the thing that angers me most is that I've already informed the council that this is OUR property, Chris is staying here but has no real disposable assets - the TV and computer he uses were bought by us. He earns zero per month and doesn't leave the house because he's unwell. I have offered to pay the money at £20 per month, which is more than they would get if Chris were on JSA but got no reply.

 

We have no intention of dealing with bailiffs or paying them charges x 3! The original demand last year was for a single sum.

 

Can someone advise me the best way to proceed with this please?

 

Thanks. Sorry for the long-windedness.

 

Glynisd

[ploddertom]

Is the Council tax still mounting up or has the house now been disposed of? For your information Capita own 2 Bailiff Co's one which happens to be Equita.

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[ploddertom]

Send off to the Bailiffs for a breakdown of the fees they are charging. Send initially by post followed by a copy in the post.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[ploddertom]

Equita have recent form for sending the details back minus the dates that the charges were made on. There is no law that states you have to speak to or deal with a Bailiff. As your son is the debtor then only his goods may be seized. You can of course make payment direct to the Council using online banking, Council website or automated phone. Providing the Bailiff is prevented from gaining a levy on goods then the fees are capped at £42-50 max.

 

You say he was summonsed for a Committal Hearing - did this actually take place & if so what was the result?

[padja]

I'm wondering PT if the letter about imprisonment was from court or bailiffs, one of their 'threats'. If it was a court date and he didn't attend and it was committal hearing a warrant will have been issued for his arrest, however as a court officer hasn't been to arrest him I suspect it was more likely a letter from either council or bailiff. If he hasn't been given prison sentence (normally 3 months suspended) then this may be what this was, he will be given one last chance pay (by monthly repayments)

on the point of being arrested it isn't police who come what happens is (on the first occasion) a court apointed official actually arrests him (no handcuffs no carting him away) and gives him a court hearing date if he then misses this the police will come take him to court or police station to appear in court.

 

But do what PlodderTom has said first, and then lets see where we are dont worry too much sending him to prison is not what council or courts really want to do

[glynisd]

Thanks for the reply. The house was sold almost 4 years ago and it's changed hands again since. It was just the one address. The reason I asked fora breakdown is because we paid a whole years' worth not long before the house was sold as they were threatening court action. My husband thinks the £800-odd bill was paid in full and they haven't deducted it so he's looking back through all the old paperwork.

 

We did google Capita/Equita and found that they were Capita's own bailiffs. I think I'm going to put your points in writing and send it recorded delivery along with a copy of the offer I made in October.

 

It's bloody annoying - paying tax to an incompetent council on an empty house we couldn't sell because of incompetent banks/government

 

 

Is the Council tax still mounting up or has the house now been disposed of? For your information Capita own 2 Bailiff Co's one which happens to be Equita.

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[ploddertom]

The dates of the Liability Orders will be very much part of the key here. Did he live there on his own and if so did he also claim Single Person Discount?

[glynisd]

Hi, it was the council mentioning imprisonment and yes, I got the impression they were trying to scare him - more a statement of what they "could" do. Anyway, they'd have to get past me first and I don't rate their chances :>

 

I've offered them a repayment - he has no income at all - but they never got around to sending me the breakdown I asked for, or bank details to set up a standing order.

 

I have everything documented (including the fact that my emails were read) so they're just showing their incompetence really.

 

 

I'm wondering PT if the letter about imprisonment was from court or bailiffs, one of their 'threats'. If it was a court date and he didn't attend and it was committal hearing a warrant will have been issued for his arrest, however as a court officer hasn't been to arrest him I suspect it was more likely a letter from either council or bailiff. If he hasn't been given prison sentence (normally 3 months suspended) then this may be what this was, he will be given one last chance pay (by monthly repayments)

on the point of being arrested it isn't police who come what happens is (on the first occasion) a court apointed official actually arrests him (no handcuffs no carting him away) and gives him a court hearing date if he then misses this the police will come take him to court or police station to appear in court.

 

But do what PlodderTom has said first, and then lets see where we are dont worry too much sending him to prison is not what council or courts really want to do

[glynisd]

No, it wasn't a committal hearing, the appointment was with a person from Capita at the council offices. I spoke to her on the phone instead and she was fine - I told her I'd make an offer of repayment but that I'd want to see a breakdown of where he'd got the figures from. She said that would be okay and I confirmed it in an email and requested bank details to set up the payment. The reference to imprisonment was one of those, "you could end up with a prison sentence" statements on a letter. After I sent the email... nothing until now. I'm inclined to think it's an end of financial year automatically generated process.

 

 

Equita have recent form for sending the details back minus the dates that the charges were made on. There is no law that states you have to speak to or deal with a Bailiff. As your son is the debtor then only his goods may be seized. You can of course make payment direct to the Council using online banking, Council website or automated phone. Providing the Bailiff is prevented from gaining a levy on goods then the fees are capped at £42-50 max.

 

You say he was summonsed for a Committal Hearing - did this actually take place & if so what was the result?

[renegadeimp]

Prison only would happen if you stood in front of a judge and said to his/her face.. " I have no intention of paying this council tax arrears and i never will". There is a whole wealth of other options that a judge can use to get repayments goings.

[ploddertom]

At the end of the day your son in my view would be classed as vulnerable under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents and the Council need to deal with this themselves. As he has no income &/or assets they are going to find it pretty difficult to do anything and it is in their power to remit all that is owing. The fact you are offering to pay is a bonus and I don't see they can kick up a fuss. Although nothing Councils/Capita/Equita do surprises me as they are son incompetent.

 

It would be interesting to exhaust the Council complaints procedure and put htis before the LGO?

[brassnecked]

Whatever they say, if they are stupid enough to levy any of your property, it would look good(not) when Crapita get a slap like Blaby Council and Dossers. Send proof of the vulnerability then if they persist send in that Formal Complaint, you have had excellent advice thus far., and ploddertom has summed up the situation very well in post #11

[glynisd]

I'm thinking along those lines Although I work full time, I have a number of serious health problems that classify me as disabled so it would look even worse on them that the person offering them payment is classified as vulnerable as well (physically maybe but in every other sense I'm quite dangerous ). I pay my taxes and never play the disability card but I'm willing to make an exception for these idiots just to make them look bad.

 

Thanks so much for your responses - it's a great help to chew things over like this.

 

 

At the end of the day your son in my view would be classed as vulnerable under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents and the Council need to deal with this themselves. As he has no income &/or assets they are going to find it pretty difficult to do anything and it is in their power to remit all that is owing. The fact you are offering to pay is a bonus and I don't see they can kick up a fuss. Although nothing Councils/Capita/Equita do surprises me as they are son incompetent.

 

It would be interesting to exhaust the Council complaints procedure and put htis before the LGO?

[glynisd]

Excellent point Mind you, they'd have to get in the door first and that's not going to happen. I'll take all the advice on board and get a letter put together.

 

Thanks.

 

Whatever they say, if they are stupid enough to levy any of your property, it would look good(not) when Crapita get a slap like Blaby Council and Dossers. Send proof of the vulnerability then if they persist send in that Formal Complaint, you have had excellent advice thus far., and ploddertom has summed up the situation very well in post #11

[lookinforinfo]

I wonder what address the L/Os are made out to.

[matt v atos]

" it wasn't a committal hearing, the appointment was with a person from Capita at the council offices." Interesting !

[brassnecked]

I wonder what address the L/Os are made out to.

I would assume son's old address, either way bailiff is goosed, he cannot seize anything at the OP's address.