work programme after 2 years

[Bakatcha]

This is the form they want me to complete prior to my Hit Squad intro interview[ATTACH=CONFIG]45625[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]45624[/ATTACH]

[Lorise]

Hey guys/gals as I have posted before I am now back at the JCP have had to register on Universal Job match as part of my new JSA agreement, I didn't tick the box to let them view my activity (although I have done all the job search requirements they have asked of me) at my last signing (yesterday) they tried to check my activity and as it was set to private I was told that they couldn't check that I had done what they asked of me and that by next time I sign on I should tick the box that allows them to view, now I know everyone's reasons why to not tick the box and I don't really want to let them spy on me all the time what I am wondering today is could I tick the box the morning I sign on so they can see I have done what I needed to do then un tick when I return home so they can't keep check or once you tick box does it disappear and you can't change it???? Thank you in advance for any replies

[Dom86]

READ THIS comment !

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/they-wont-be-lovin-it-mcdonalds-admits-90-of-employees-are-on-zerohours-contracts-without-guaranteed-work-or-a-stable-income-8747986.html#comment-990138715

 

The biggest [edited - please refrain from trying to circumvent the filter] is yet to be revealed. I was "offered" a health and social care course with an offer of a "job" (dependent on suitability, obviously) through the "WORK PROGRAM". Did the "course" (nice DVD). Offered a "job" on zero hours. Never got any hours, although the company got its £thousands bonus from the tax payer for "employing" someone. What a con. Some journo needs to look into this.

Edited August 6, 2013 by honeybee13

[RebeccaPidgeon]

This is the form they want me to complete prior to my Hit Squad intro interview[ATTACH=CONFIG]45625[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]45624[/ATTACH]

Thanks for posting the copy. Interesting format - and some of the information required (such as email address on page 2 for UJM) is likely to be in conflict with Data Protection Legislation.

 

However, can you rescan the document, and post an enlarged copy. Unfortunately, some of the text is indistinct.

 

Thanks

[Charlotte_Henderson]

Hey guys/gals as I have posted before I am now back at the JCP have had to register on Universal Job match as part of my new JSA agreement

 

I registered on UJM as soon as it was launched, i sign in every day but find most of the jobs on there. 2-3 days behind other job sites

[JustInterested]

Hey guys/gals as I have posted before I am now back at the JCP have had to register on Universal Job match as part of my new JSA agreement, I didn't tick the box to let them view my activity (although I have done all the job search requirements they have asked of me) at my last signing (yesterday) they tried to check my activity and as it was set to private I was told that they couldn't check that I had done what they asked of me and that by next time I sign on I should tick the box that allows them to view, now I know everyone's reasons why to not tick the box and I don't really want to let them spy on me all the time what I am wondering today is could I tick the box the morning I sign on so they can see I have done what I needed to do then un tick when I return home so they can't keep check or once you tick box does it disappear and you can't change it???? Thank you in advance for any replies

 

Why bother with that just quote their own regulations to them: "82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this – it is not therefore possible to require JSA claimants to give DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account."

 

From: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/165908/response/410266/attach/html/5/Chapter%2003%20Using%20Universal%20Jobmatch.pdf.html

[JustInterested]

Thanks for posting the copy. Interesting format - and some of the information required (such as email address on page 2 for UJM) is likely to be in conflict with Data Protection Legislation.

 

However, can you rescan the document, and post an enlarged copy. Unfortunately, some of the text is indistinct.

 

Thanks

 

I can't read the form at all but you certainly do not have to give them your email address. This FOI response from the DWP also makes it clear that there should be no forms to fill in: "There are no forms or questionnaires that Work Programme completers will be asked to complete by Jobcentre Plus staff."

 

From: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/165970/response/403624/attach/html/3/Response%202830.pdf.html

[Mr.P]

they tried to check my [uJM] activity and as it was set to private I was told that they couldn't check that I had done what they asked of me and that by next time I sign on I should tick the box that allows them to view

 

If it was a verbal request, just blow a raspberry and be done with it. If, on the other hand, it was a Jobseeker Direction made in writing, refer it to a DM and point out it is in direct contravention of published UJM guidance. See the UJ Toolkit link in post#486.

[Bakatcha]

Sorry about the quality of the copy but it took me ages to get even the poor images posted! I'm afraid I'm not prepared to spend any more hours on it. Try zooming in to magnify.

It's interesting that the DWP claim in the FOI that returners won't be asked to complete any forms then I get sent a form to complete!

I won't be filling in the form.

Form image can be seen here

http://www.mediafire.com/view/77dzpbgprdnp0bj/hitsqdform.jpg

page 2

http://www.mediafire.com/view/j0dt1m5e6bb5xd7/06-08-2013_13%3B21%3B41.jpg

 

Best I can do I'm afraid!

Edited August 6, 2013 by Bakatcha

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Sorry about the quality of the copy but it took me ages to get even the poor images posted! I'm afraid I'm not prepared to spend any more hours on it. Try zooming in to magnify.

It's interesting that the DWP claim in the FOI that returners won't be asked to complete any forms then I get sent a form to complete!

I won't be filling in the form.

Form image can be seen here

http://www.mediafire.com/view/77dzpbgprdnp0bj/hitsqdform.jpg

page 2

http://www.mediafire.com/view/j0dt1m5e6bb5xd7/06-08-2013_13%3B21%3B41.jpg

 

Best I can do I'm afraid!

Thanks for reposting - the quality is perfect. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, possibly down to a glitch within the site upload facility for images, the original images lacked resolution, and when magnified, some of the content was indistinct.

 

I hope that when others are presented with a similar form that they will ignore the form as well... although some will, unfortunately, simply complete the form.

 

Aside from an attempt to coerce candidates into releasing secure information on their Universal Job Match Account (if they even admit to having one), rather than simply using UJM as a Job Search Facility, the form is a pathetic substitute for any interview which is to be conducted by the FLA (as part of the Hit Squad), and will even provide justification for JCP to send candidates (if they admit to coping with drugs and alcohol problems) onto some remedial programme.

 

Perhaps even delivered by their favourite Work Programme Provider, A4E, which has branched out into (say) deploying Neuro Linguistic Programming to candidates who admit having drugs/alcohol problems.

 

Of course, if candidates admit to not possessing recent "work experience", the FLA will simply use this as defacto justification for sending the candidate onto Mandatory Work Experience - despite the fact that candidates, having recently completed the Work Programme, should not be conscripted.

Edited August 7, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[JustInterested]

It's interesting that the DWP claim in the FOI that returners won't be asked to complete any forms then I get sent a form to complete!

 

This is just the usual disconnect between the people who make the rules (the DWP) and the people who implement them (the Jobcentre managers). Some people were being made to fill in a booklet from the discredited nudge unit!

 

By the way the two jpgs show as blank pages on my computer and the original version was tiny and I couldn't zoom into it! Must be a peculiarity with my computer.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

This is just the usual disconnect between the people who make the rules (the DWP) and the people who implement them (the Jobcentre managers). Some people were being made to fill in a booklet from the discredited nudge unit!

 

By the way the two jpgs show as blank pages on my computer and the original version was tiny and I couldn't zoom into it! Must be a peculiarity with my computer.

 

Perhaps you could try a different browser, or download and install the most recent version.... I use Firefox, but occasionally will go to Safari, Opera, Flock, Chrome if there is a problem in accessing a web page. This problem may have nothing to do with the browser, but an incompatible (or less developed) plug in for the browser - Adobe Flash being one example.

 

I have taken screenshots of both pages of the form, have uploaded them, and attached them here.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45644[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45643[/ATTACH]

Edited August 7, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[Chester6]

I think they haven't a clue what to and each office makes it up as they go along

There's no standard procedure across the offices

[Mr.P]

This is the form they want me to complete prior to my Hit Squad intro interview

 

"giving information about the kind of work you want" - But no space for text to describe the type of work being sought. Also note the use of the word "please" as in "please complete" and "please bring along [a CV]" - Indicating a request that is purely optional.

 

I would certainly be asking how the data collected would be used to help, and why it is needed having just finished with the WP - Unless it is an admission that the WP was a waste of time.

[Bakatcha]

"giving information about the kind of work you want" - But no space for text to describe the type of work being sought. Also note the use of the word "please" as in "please complete" and "please bring along [a CV]" - Indicating a request that is purely optional.

 

I would certainly be asking how the data collected would be used to help, and why it is needed having just finished with the WP - Unless it is an admission that the WP was a waste of time.

Don't worry Mr. P - I am quite capable of asking awkward questions - have had >50 years of practice.

[jasta11]

Regarding the two forms Bakatcha posted up, I seem to recall filling in very similar forms some years ago on a previous period of unemployment, albeit slightly shorter - the bits about 'I am confident at interviews' and 'I know how to look for jobs' definitely ring a bell, as I remember being careful to give only positive answers to everything, in case I was sent on a course for that subject. This was before UJ so obviously no mention of that but the rest of the content looks eerily familiar.

 

Perhaps they're hurriedly dredging up old forms in an effort to look like they're doing something new. What a shame that now we all know we don't have to fill them in..

[jasta11]

Of course, if candidates admit to not possessing recent "work experience", the FLA will simply use this as defacto justification for sending the candidate onto Mandatory Work Experience - despite the fact that candidates, having recently completed the Work Programme, should not be conscripted.

 

The DWP now seem to have re-written their MWA Guidance to include candidates who have recently completed the Work Programme - obviously they've spotted the loop-hole whereby claimants could be excluded.

 

Previous MWA Guidance stated:

 

Given the policy intent of MWA, the following claimants must

not be considered for referral to MWA:

 

currently working (paid or voluntary)

undertaking employment related study / training

taking part in or recently completed* another employment measure

(contracted or non-contracted) aimed at helping them move closer to the labour market

 

All well and good as FOI stated that the Work Programme was indeed an 'employment measure' thereby excluding us. However, a recent FOI reply dated 29th July 2013 shows the DWP has added an extra line;

 

Given the policy intent of MWA, the following claimants must not be considered for referral to MWA:

 

currently working (paid or voluntary)

undertaking employment related study / training

on the Work Programme

taking part in or recently completed* a Jobcentre Plus employment related measure (contracted or non-contracted), other than the Work Programme, aimed at helping them move closer to the labour market

 

Apparently we're now candidates for MWA.. Full MWA Guide is here, see Section 19

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/166532/response/414117/attach/3/Mandatory%20Work%20Activity%20Procedural%20Guidance.pdf

 

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Apparently we're now candidates for MWA.. Full MWA Guide is here, see Section 19

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/166532/response/414117/attach/3/Mandatory%20Work%20Activity%20Procedural%20Guidance.pdf

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Until such time as the provider guidance is updated { http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pg-part-p.pdf , 15 January 2013}, Feature 12 of the revised guidelines is of interest

"be additional to any existing or expected vacancies the host organisation may have", which remains similar to part of the Jan 15 2013 Provider Guidance:

3.13 It is not necessary (although it’s desirable wherever possible) for the placement to be in the same sector or type of work as the customer’s job goal, as MWA is designed to help the customer develop disciplines associated with employment. Customers cannot choose their placements.

:

:

:

3.15 Placements must be additional to any existing or expected vacancies. You must ensure that employers are not taking advantage of MWA as a source of labour at the expense of employing workers in the open labour market.

Depending on the candidate, potential options to minimise the risk of being conscripted would be i) to contact a local FE College to assess part time education - some courses are free, ii) explore distance learning options related to your job/career interests, iii) explore Self Employment (and identify local courses).

Edited August 7, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[JustInterested]

Depending on the candidate, potential options to minimise the risk of being conscripted would be i) to contact a local FE College to assess part time education - some courses are free, ii) explore distance learning options related to your job/career interests, iii) explore Self Employment (and identify local courses).

 

I tried that today at the Jobcentre. I strolled in with my 3 month part time course details and asked if I could do it. I was told I wouldn't be able to arrange it until I'd officially finished the WP (fair enough), so I'd have to discuss it with my PWPS adviser! Darn it, I just know they're going to refuse as that would give me an opt out of MWA.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I tried that today at the Jobcentre. I strolled in with my 3 month part time course details and asked if I could do it. I was told I wouldn't be able to arrange it until I'd officially finished the WP (fair enough), so I'd have to discuss it with my PWPS adviser! Darn it, I just know they're going to refuse as that would give me an opt out of MWA.

I dont think the WP should constrain you... if the course has merit, is a part time course (total study time

[Bakatcha]

Regarding the two forms Bakatcha posted up, I seem to recall filling in very similar forms some years ago on a previous period of unemployment, albeit slightly shorter - the bits about 'I am confident at interviews' and 'I know how to look for jobs' definitely ring a bell, as I remember being careful to give only positive answers to everything, in case I was sent on a course for that subject. This was before UJ so obviously no mention of that but the rest of the content looks eerily familiar.

 

Perhaps they're hurriedly dredging up old forms in an effort to look like they're doing something new. What a shame that now we all know we don't have to fill them in..

Now here's a thought - supposing I answer the first question "I can fill in forms" with a "NO" and I then go on to fill in the rest of the form - would I be sanctioned for lying?

or put a "Yes" and then not fill in the rest of the form!

 

A strange world we live in

[Mr.P]

Now here's a thought - supposing I answer the first question "I can fill in forms" with a "NO" and I then go on to fill in the rest of the form - would I be sanctioned for lying?

 

Depends on how you "fill in the rest of the form". Would glyphs, doodles, and/or demented ramblings qualify ?

 

The form gives no indication that responses must be honest and truthful under threat of (il)legal retribution...

[atum2013]

i think they haven't a clue what to and each office makes it up as they go along

there's no standard procedure across the offices

 

very true

[jasta11]

I can refine that statement even further..every advisor makes it up as they go along It is up to us to show them the error of their ways and preach the gospel according to whatdotheyknow.com. Amen.

 

I still think the prize for 'Most Ridiculous DWP Question' is the one on your initial benefit application form asking you about your savings, etc, where they ask if you have any cash lying around at home.. I defy anyone to answer that one truthfully!

[JustInterested]

I still think the prize for 'Most Ridiculous DWP Question' is the one on your initial benefit application form asking you about your savings, etc, where they ask if you have any cash lying around at home.. I defy anyone to answer that one truthfully!

 

It does make you wonder what goes through the heads of the DWP bean counters doesn't it? How exactly do they imagine they would ever find out if you did have some cash at home if you denied it on the form? In a world of their own.