work programme after 2 years

[doobydoo]

I think that is croydon standard procedure - I live up the road so it's bearable for 2 weeks - just.

 

This states you Have to sign up to UJM & create a profile and public CV - Am I Wrong ?

 

"51. Where you have explained the benefits to claimants of creating a profile

and public CV in Universal Jobmatch and they will not do so willingly, they

can be mandated to create a profile and public CV. "

 

Iwill not give them the email I used for this though and make my cv without personal details and print out jobs I've applied for.

[Mr K]

Going in every day for two weeks! You already are a special case.

 

It will be a mistake for you to sign up to UJM as once you've done it that's it, there's no going back.

 

The Jobcentre cannot mandate you to give them your CV, telephone number or, importantly, your email address. And, as the Government Gateway and UJM both require an email for registration, they can't force you to register.

 

Signed up to UJM, not worth even looking at. Looks like they copy and paste ads from other sites from the net on there. Have been on post WP with the JC for a month now and have applied for jobs to be told that they have been filled. Yet the next day the exact same advert appears again. Think it is being used specifically by agencies to fish for cv's. Also there are a lot of training courses and dubious 'work from home for £50 outlay' ads on there which I assume are counted when the government release their figures stating how many vacancies are in filled.

[JustInterested]

I think that is croydon standard procedure - I live up the road so it's bearable for 2 weeks - just.

 

This states you Have to sign up to UJM & create a profile and public CV - Am I Wrong ?

 

"51. Where you have explained the benefits to claimants of creating a profile

and public CV in Universal Jobmatch and they will not do so willingly, they

can be mandated to create a profile and public CV. "

 

Iwill not give them the email I used for this though and make my cv without personal details and print out jobs I've applied for.

 

This is policy, it is not backed up by ANY legislation. Note that they do not say you WILL be made to register because they know the legislation is not in place to do that (if you doubt this ask yourself why there is a tick box on the JSAg to agree to register with UJM and not a straight statement that you WILL register with UJM!). It's a game of chicken where the first one to give loses.

 

Here's the only legislation that supports the creation of an "online profile":

 

The Welfare Reform Act 2012, chapter 2, section 17(3)© states:

 

(3) Action which may be specified under subsection (1)(b) includes in particular—

creating and maintaining an online profile.

 

Now you'll note that there is absolutely no mention of UJ. So, if you have an "online profile" with any other job search website you have met the legal requirements of the Act. This is one of the reasons I have given to successfully avoid being mandated to register with UJ.

 

However, while it is true that you cannot be made to give your email address, using that as a reason for not registering with UJM is, as far as I know, untested in practise. Logic dictates though that if you cannot be mandated to give your email and you cannot register with UJM without giving your email, then you cannot be mandated to register with UJM!

 

Everything you are asked to do by the Jobcentre has to be reasonable in your circumstances. If you argue that UJM does not in any way improve your chances of finding work compared to that which you already do it is unreasonable and they cannot mandate you to register with it.

Edited August 21, 2013 by JustInterested

[doobydoo]

mmm interesting JustInterested

[doobydoo]

Makes interesting reading --- from wikipedia

 

"Universal Jobmatch has replaced the Jobcentre Plus job search tool. The service has been introduced as part of a Government campaign to assist the DWP to monitor client's jobsearch activities directly. The service went live on schedule in November 2012, and is quickly gaining momentum with some 460,000 employers posting jobs and the site receiving over 6 million searches per day. By February 2013 there were some 2 million registered users.[1]

 

It is not a requirement to register, and anonymous searches can be made and applications made directly to companies that have posted their contact details. However, as of 01/03/2013 Jobcentre advisers can, if giving a good reason, require Jobseekers Allowance claimants to use the site through a Jobseeker Direction. If they refuse to comply, they can be recommended for a benefit sanction. A decision-maker takes the final decision over whether benefit should be removed.[2]

 

Registered users have the option to allow the DWP to have access to their accounts. Whilst this is not mandatory, claiments are threatened with a sanction to do so to aid their jobsearch activity and to enable the DWP to monitor claimants' activity.[3] Universal job match is home to false job vacancies that don’t exist; universal job match is also known to allow and encourage false job advertisements by job agencies in direct contradiction of The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 which states that advertising jobs which do not exist (r.27) is now illegal. Despite this the universal job match is encouraging this practice in direct conflict and disregard to the 2003 act.

 

Universal Jobmatch is a British government website where unemployed people can try to find job vacancies. The website has been subject to a number of criticisms including concerns over data security, the appearance of bogus job adverts on the site,[4] and the suitability of some job postings. In 2012 it was reported that an advertisement for a pornographic actress and a mafia hitman had appeared on the site.[5] The site was developed by Monster,[6] at a cost of over £17 million. Controversy has arisen due to people having registered with Universal Jobmatch and then finding that they are targeted by dubious organisations and individuals in financial scams.[6] Instead of resolving this issue, the DWP has now asked all users to accept the contents of a disclaimer document,[7] including the clause that they "don't accept liability for loss or damage incurred by users of the website."

[Mr K]

Makes interesting reading --- from wikipedia

 

"Universal Jobmatch has replaced the Jobcentre Plus job search tool. The service has been introduced as part of a Government campaign to assist the DWP to monitor client's jobsearch activities directly. The service went live on schedule in November 2012, and is quickly gaining momentum with some 460,000 employers posting jobs and the site receiving over 6 million searches per day. By February 2013 there were some 2 million registered users.[1]

 

It is not a requirement to register, and anonymous searches can be made and applications made directly to companies that have posted their contact details. However, as of 01/03/2013 Jobcentre advisers can, if giving a good reason, require Jobseekers Allowance claimants to use the site through a Jobseeker Direction. If they refuse to comply, they can be recommended for a benefit sanction. A decision-maker takes the final decision over whether benefit should be removed.[2]

 

Registered users have the option to allow the DWP to have access to their accounts. Whilst this is not mandatory, claiments are threatened with a sanction to do so to aid their jobsearch activity and to enable the DWP to monitor claimants' activity.[3] Universal job match is home to false job vacancies that don’t exist; universal job match is also known to allow and encourage false job advertisements by job agencies in direct contradiction of The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 which states that advertising jobs which do not exist (r.27) is now illegal. Despite this the universal job match is encouraging this practice in direct conflict and disregard to the 2003 act.

 

Universal Jobmatch is a British government website where unemployed people can try to find job vacancies. The website has been subject to a number of criticisms including concerns over data security, the appearance of bogus job adverts on the site,[4] and the suitability of some job postings. In 2012 it was reported that an advertisement for a pornographic actress and a mafia hitman had appeared on the site.[5] The site was developed by Monster,[6] at a cost of over £17 million. Controversy has arisen due to people having registered with Universal Jobmatch and then finding that they are targeted by dubious organisations and individuals in financial ****s.[6] Instead of resolving this issue, the DWP has now asked all users to accept the contents of a disclaimer document,[7] including the clause that they "don't accept liability for loss or damage incurred by users of the website."

 

Also worth mentioning that if you don't agree to allow them access they can get shirty and issue a direction to attend daily (at a different time each day) just to be awkward. I raised a written compliant to the manager and copied in Caxton House. Review visits have now returned back to once a month. Was told last week that only actual job applications are counted as activity and firing off spec letters or cold calling does not count (although I log them anyway). Noticed also that my green agreement booklet states call zero employers, write to zero employers and visit zero employers each week. The only actions on it were to register with UJM and sign up for the twitter feed.

[doobydoo]

I already am attending daily at different times for the first 2 weeks - unfortunately

[Mr K]

I already am attending daily at different times for the first 2 weeks - unfortunately

 

Our post WP advisor is pretty clueless with regards to what takes place on the WP. It was as if she was expecting all of us that were on it to come back after 2 years with industry recognised skills and qualifications.

 

Im on ESA at the moment for a life long illness, I've returned to work three times through agencies to avoid the WP as much as possible but now find myself back at the starting line again. I have to be selective about the type of work I do due to health and safety etc. The JC don't seem to be as laid back as the WP.

 

I'm expecting to be sent on MWA next time I go in.

[tfp]

I already am attending daily at different times for the first 2 weeks - unfortunately

 

This is madness! Counter productive madness at that. Does JCP+ and the DWP actually believe that making a jobseeker attend daily suddenly make more jobs appear? Do they think that it makes jobseekers instantly more suitable for the jobs they may be rejected for? Do they not think this costs the taxpayer more money due to the increased paperwork and processing? All this does is widen the gulf in mistrust between jobseeker and adviser. And people wonder why G4s security guards are employed in large numbers?

 

Daily signing esp. at random times seems to be petty and vindictive and very if little to do with offering genuine help.

[osdset]

The current attitude toward job seekers especially returners from WP has IDS written all over it.

He has his own customised copy of the Malleus Maleficarum where witches are replaced by benefit claimants.

[Mr K]

This is madness! Counter productive madness at that. Does JCP+ and the DWP actually believe that making a jobseeker attend daily suddenly make more jobs appear? Do they think that it makes jobseekers instantly more suitable for the jobs they may be rejected for? Do they not think this costs the taxpayer more money due to the increased paperwork and processing? All this does is widen the gulf in mistrust between jobseeker and adviser. And people wonder why G4s security guards are employed in large numbers?

 

Daily signing esp. at random times seems to be petty and vindictive and very if little to do with offering genuine help.

 

I think that the government are under the impression that all Jobseekers live the 'Life of Riley' and are really working cash in hand on the side.

 

I sent out 1500 nicely printed letters and cvs out (ordered some letterheads when Vistaprint had an offer on their printing) to local businesses and still this isn't enough to please them.

 

I have a business idea that could make a living and keep me off benefits, just need that little push to get it going. Being on or ex Work Programme renders us exempt from applying for the New Enterprise thing so we become snookered by the system that is supposed to be there to help us. I have a clean and fluent work history and until I was diagnosed with the big E 2years ago had worked since the age of 16. I'm 35 in 3 weeks time and don't know where else to turn.

[doobydoo]

I think that the government are under the impression that all Jobseekers live the 'Life of Riley' and are really working cash in hand on the side.

 

I sent out 1500 nicely printed letters and cvs out (ordered some letterheads when Vistaprint had an offer on their printing) to local businesses and still this isn't enough to please them.

 

I have a business idea that could make a living and keep me off benefits, just need that little push to get it going. Being on or ex Work Programme renders us exempt from applying for the New Enterprise thing so we become snookered by the system that is supposed to be there to help us. I have a clean and fluent work history and until I was diagnosed with the big E 2years ago had worked since the age of 16. I'm 35 in 3 weeks time and don't know where else to turn.

 

I hear you Mr K - hope things pick up for you soon

[JustInterested]

Daily signing esp. at random times seems to be petty and vindictive and very if little to do with offering genuine help.

 

It has three main designs.

 

First, it prevents people they think are working and claiming benefit from working and second, it wears the jobseeker down in the hope they will sign off benefits and third, it increases the chances of them sanctioning you for being late or failing to do some required task. In other words it is IDS' dream.

 

None of it is designed to help jobseekers into work.

Edited August 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[doobydoo]

It has three main designs.

 

First, it prevents people they think are working and claiming benefit from working and second, it wears the jobseeker down in the hope they will sign off benefits and third, it increases the chances of them sanctioning you for being late or failing to do some required task. In other words it is IDS' dream.

 

None of it is designed to help jobseekers into work.

 

Absolutely spot on JustInterested !

Edited August 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[Mr K]

I hear you Mr K - hope things pick up for you soon

 

I've been accepted back at college to start 16th of next month. Already fighting a sanction for not attending an interview where the letter arrived after the interview. Seems that this might be a new tactic - sanction, then in the job centre hand over a copy of the letter that is dated 24 hours before your appointment.

 

Will sign off if they force me off my course.

[Mr K]

It has three main designs.

 

First, it prevents people they think are working and claiming benefit from working and second, it wears the jobseeker down in the hope they will sign off benefits and third, it increases the chances of them sanctioning you for being late or failing to do some required task. In other words it is IDS' dream.

 

None of it is designed to help jobseekers into work.

 

Well there is a 4th purpose.. It keeps the [edited] employed in the job centres in a job!

Edited August 21, 2013 by honeybee13

[tfp]

I think that the government are under the impression that all Jobseekers live the 'Life of Riley' and are really working cash in hand on the side.

 

I sent out 1500 nicely printed letters and cvs out (ordered some letterheads when Vistaprint had an offer on their printing) to local businesses and still this isn't enough to please them.

 

I have a business idea that could make a living and keep me off benefits, just need that little push to get it going. Being on or ex Work Programme renders us exempt from applying for the New Enterprise thing so we become snookered by the system that is supposed to be there to help us. I have a clean and fluent work history and until I was diagnosed with the big E 2years ago had worked since the age of 16. I'm 35 in 3 weeks time and don't know where else to turn.

 

That odious toad, Mark Hopeless Hoban was on BBC R5L this morning. I phoned in hoping to put a couple of points to him. Sadly, I was unable. He was banging on about how the New Ent Allowance had helped people into starting their own business. I was going to mention that the NEA requires someone to have their business up and running from making £0.00 to being able to pay them a living wage in six months, preferably three. Not realistic for most businesses. Secondly, if on the WP the NEA is out of bounds. So if wishing to start the NEA, one has to effectively waste TWO years being on the WP. Bravo Smith, Hoban and the rest of the incompetent shower charged with welfare in this country!

[Mr K]

That odious toad, Mark Hopeless Hoban was on BBC R5L this morning. I phoned in hoping to put a couple of points to him. Sadly, I was unable. He was banging on about how the New Ent Allowance had helped people into starting their own business. I was going to mention that the NEA requires someone to have their business up and running from making £0.00 to being able to pay them a living wage in six months, preferably three. Not realistic for most businesses. Secondly, if on the WP the NEA is out of bounds. So if wishing to start the NEA, one has to effectively waste TWO years being on the WP. Bravo Smith, Hoban and the rest of the incompetent shower charged with welfare in this country!

 

The idea I have would work, I have the equipment and skills to do it. I used to do it as a sideline when I was in full time work and it kept my car on the road. All it would require is a little cash injection to get the ball rolling. Even put my idea forward to local businesses and they said it was something they would consider. Being out of work renders normal high street bank loans out of bounds. All that is required is a small van and advertising. I could be up and running before Christmas, not fantastic money but better than benefits

[osdset]

That odious toad, Mark Hopeless Hoban was on BBC R5L this morning. I phoned in hoping to put a couple of points to him. Sadly, I was unable. He was banging on about how the New Ent Allowance had helped people into starting their own business. I was going to mention that the NEA requires someone to have their business up and running from making £0.00 to being able to pay them a living wage in six months, preferably three. Not realistic for most businesses. Secondly, if on the WP the NEA is out of bounds. So if wishing to start the NEA, one has to effectively waste TWO years being on the WP. Bravo Smith, Hoban and the rest of the incompetent shower charged with welfare in this country!

 

 

Mark 'finger on the pulse' Hoban incompetent? Read this http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2013/08/20/dwp-minister-hoban-gets-jsa-amount-wrong-and-jobseeking-unaffordable/

[doobydoo]

Went in today and explained that I had setup an account for UJM uploaded a CV and applied for a job from the system - showed them print outs of screens to prove this - they asked me if I had allowed them access to view/edit my account & I explained that I was not happy with the Data Protection implifications of this and explained how there were reports of duplicate and false jobs on there and the pay for job problems as well - also that instead of the government dealing with the situation they put an indemnity clause in the agreement saying they " dont accept liability for loss or damage incurred by users of this website". They said that was OK but asked what email I had used to set up the account - I told them I dont have to give you that information - to which they replied - oh ok then.

 

They are now looking at putting me on a 13 week "Idiot" 9-5 full time course in the jobcentre - unbelievable.. seeing as I have to revise for and take some exams which will finish 3 years of study and enable me to get a job for myself !

The job centre course will get in the way of that.

Edited August 22, 2013 by doobydoo

[osdset]

Went in today and explained that I had setup an account for UJM uploaded a CV and applied for a job from the system - showed them print outs of screens to prove this - they asked me if I had allowed them access to view/edit my account & I explained that I was not happy with the Data Protection implifications of this and explained how there were reports of duplicate and false jobs on there and the pay for job problems as well - also that instead of the government dealing with the situation they put an indemnity clause in the agreement saying they " dont accept liability for loss or damage incurred by users of this website". They said that was OK but asked what email I had used to set up the account - I told them I dont have to give you that information - to which they replied - oh ok then.

 

They are now looking at putting me on a 13 week "Idiot" 9-5 full time course in the jobcentre - unbelievable.. seeing as I have to revise for and take some exams which will finish 3 years of study and enable me to get a job for myself !

The job centre course will get in the way of that.

 

 

Retribution for standing your ground.

[doobydoo]

Retribution for standing your ground.

 

No - I dont believe it is - as they were refering to an internal memo on their desk which I picked up and had a look at.

 

Also I conduct myself in a way that is not antagonistic - but calm and friendly.

 

Again this seems to be their standard procedure

[osdset]

No - I dont believe it is - as they were refering to an internal memo on their desk which I picked up and had a look at.

 

Also I conduct myself in a way that is not antagonistic - but calm and friendly.

 

Again this seems to be their standard procedure

 

 

Perhaps you are unlucky, I still smell retribution.

[Mr K]

Perhaps you are unlucky, I still smell retribution.

 

Tried to log into UJM this morning to try and keep JC happy and its locked me out. They have a lovely surprise coming their way so wouldn't be shocked if I end up with a 3 year sanction and all the rubbish courses they can throw at me. I had confirmation in the post this morning saying that the people above the DWP (Case examiner) will be looking into my complaints of bullying by JC, WP and Atos.

[JustInterested]

They are now looking at putting me on a 13 week "Idiot" 9-5 full time course in the jobcentre

 

Wow! That is brutal! I think that's the worst punishment I've seen so far from any Jobcentre. Do you have any more details of the "course"? Do you actually mean it will be run at the Jobcentre?