Benefit Fraud - Please help!!

[Weetabix999]

Hi,

 

my friend is a single Mum.

After leaving her ex (who lives abroad), she moved back to the UK.

The ex paid her first 6 months rent, but she still claimed Housing Benefit, intending to pay him back in monthly installments.

He then told her to keep it as he wasn't going to pay any maintenance, so she used the money (£3K in total) for maintenance, although she was also claiming Income Support and Child Benefit.

 

She's been invited to an interview and told me that she's quite looking forward to 'coming clean' and intends to pay the money back immediately.

Ironically, the interview is exactly three days *after* the first Housing Benefit money is actually going to the landlady, so she's worried that they will accuse her of planning to continue this set-up, even though she set up the standing order to the landlady a couple of weeks ago.

 

So - questions:

 

1. Will she have to go to court?

2. Will she go to prison (she wants to train as a teacher and is worried about the criminal record)

3. Will her benefits be stopped/reduced - if so for how long - she's really worried about paying the rent if this happens.

 

Many many thanks - she's worried sick x

Edited February 23, 2013 by Weetabix999

[renegadeimp]

They can accuse of of anything. They still need to PROVE it. If she comes clean right away it will look much better than if she is hiding anything. As for prison, i wouldnt worry about that. it's pretty much a non-factor for a small amount plus she owned up to it.

[Weetabix999]

Thanks Renegadeimp x

 

How about benefits - will they cut them? She'll be stuck without them as her kid's not even at nursery yet.

[renegadeimp]

Now that i cant say. Mainly because each case is evaluated on its own merits.

[Weetabix999]

Thanks!

 

We're really worried as other forums are saying that she 'will' be prosecuted - can I ask - how do you know she won't be?

[renegadeimp]

You need to take forum posts with a grain of salt, including mine. All we can offer, including myself, is advice. What actually happens completely depends on the day. If she is honest from the start, admits to everything and gives full details, then even if the interviewer looks down on her, it still has to go through the courts, who would hear the evidence and make their own decision.

 

A number of things can happen in the interview and at court if it goes there. However the best way is to deal with it on the day. If she is upfront at all times then she'll be ok. It is very unlikely that she will go to prison, as there are people who fraudulently claim tens of thousands knowingly and willingly, and even set out from the start to do so, and only get a suspended sentence.

[Weetabix999]

OK - thanks - really appreciate your advice x

[Weetabix999]

Sorry - one more thing - do you know how long courts take to decide over these kind of matters?

[hine moa]

Been there, know how she is feeling it's horrible and nothing anyone can say can stop how bad she feels right now, it's the not knowing what will happen.

 

It will all come down to how much they think she has been overpaid, they deduct overpayments from your benefits so she would have to 'top up' her rent in future.

Did he pay the landlady direct, or did the money keep appearing in your friends account each month for her to pay the rent with?

 

 

You may be able to look around and find out what your local authority do with these cases, for instance, in my case, my local authority automatically send any overpayments of £6000 to court, no consideration taken. I've seen that with some authorities the figure is higher and with some its lower.

 

Your friend needs to get to a solicitor that deals with this sort of thing, she should be entitled to legal aid if she's on benefits and has no savings. If she can get a solicitor appointed they are able to speak with the authority and get all the information of what exactly they are investigating and your friend can then meet with the solicitor prior to the Interview and sort out what she is going to say and be semi prepared for all the questioning that will follow.

 

Hugs to your friend, its a horrible time but she will survive it, I did, and I had to go to Court, I thought I wouldn't make it through but I did. My biggest worry was prison too, it's not in the public interest to send a single mother to prison, just keep reminding her of that fact.

[id6052]

not sure what there is to come clean about

 

from what you have said, there is no fraud

[hine moa]

not sure what there is to come clean about

 

from what you have said, there is no fraud

 

That's why I asked about where the money went, the authority could have evidence of the money going into her bank account which would therefore suggest an undeclared income.

 

Also, is someone else paying your rent just not allowed, especially if they are family or a person that could be considered to be your partner?

[renegadeimp]

There might not be any fraud, but in the interview she needs to be honest and open. Hide ANYTHING, and if they find out, theyll come right down on you.

[estellyn]

It depends whether she can argue whether the payments were inded 'maintenance' which I believe is no longer counted towards means tested benefits, though it should be declared. The problem may come if the money was paid direct to the landlord and if there is any suggestion that they were still a couple during the period he was contributing towards the rent.

[hine moa]

It depends whether she can argue whether the payments were inded 'maintenance' which I believe is no longer counted towards means tested benefits, though it should be declared. The problem may come if the money was paid direct to the landlord and if there is any suggestion that they were still a couple during the period he was contributing towards the rent.

 

I think you're right, maintenance is no longer deducted from benefits. I didn't think of it from that angle, just that if they've seen the 'income' if it has been paid to the friend they'd be suspicious.

[Weetabix999]

Hi All,

 

the money went straight to the landlady via the lettings agency. That was 6 months ago and now she's set up a standing order for the money to leave her account and go directly to the landlady.

 

Also - just to clarify - she's been invited for an interview, but it hasn't mentioned anything about being under 'caution' as I've seen on other forums.

All they've asked for is her last 3 month bank statements, but it's then that they'll see that the HB money's been going in, but not going out on rent - obviously - so she's intending to come clean there and then.

 

Should she start looking for a solicitor now?

[id6052]

am sorry, but i think you may be over-reacting, it is not that uncommon for people to pay 6 months rent in advance then claim HB during the 6 months

 

usually happens where people are returning from abroad and haver no credit history/record in UK

[estellyn]

Hi All,

 

the money went straight to the landlady via the lettings agency. That was 6 months ago and now she's set up a standing order for the money to leave her account and go directly to the landlady.

 

Also - just to clarify - she's been invited for an interview, but it hasn't mentioned anything about being under 'caution' as I've seen on other forums.

All they've asked for is her last 3 month bank statements, but it's then that they'll see that the HB money's been going in, but not going out on rent - obviously - so she's intending to come clean there and then.

 

Should she start looking for a solicitor now?

 

If it's money from the father of the child, it will be maintenance and disregarded. If it were my client, I'd advise them not to mention that it was for a specific purpose, but that it is a private child maintenance arrangement and to apologise for not declaring it.

 

However, just be aware there is always the possibility of them questionning whether her and ex and still a couple, but, for instance, living apart temporarily due to him being employed abroad.

[hine moa]

Hi All,

 

the money went straight to the landlady via the lettings agency. That was 6 months ago and now she's set up a standing order for the money to leave her account and go directly to the landlady.

 

Also - just to clarify - she's been invited for an interview, but it hasn't mentioned anything about being under 'caution' as I've seen on other forums.

All they've asked for is her last 3 month bank statements, but it's then that they'll see that the HB money's been going in, but not going out on rent - obviously - so she's intending to come clean there and then.

 

Should she start looking for a solicitor now?

 

My apologies, I assumed it was an Interview Under Caution. No, don't think she's needing a solicitor at this point then.

 

So has she only been receiving Housing Benefit for three months then? Otherwise I can't understand why they only want to see three months back statements.

[Weetabix999]

Sorry Hine Moa - I should have mentioned that it wasn't under caution initially.

She's been receiving HB for 6 months now.

 

Estellyn - it is the money from the father (he's now in a new relationship and has since been made redundant too).

 

I'm really sorry - but I don't understand:

"If it were my client, I'd advise them not to mention that it was for a specific purpose, but that it is a private child maintenance arrangement and to apologise for not declaring it."

 

The father paid the money directly to the lettings agency - so it 'was' for a specific purpose - for the rent...it didn't go into her bank account so she had nothing to declare...oh hang on - should she have declared the initial payment of 6 months rent - is that what you mean?

[hine moa]

Sorry Hine Moa - I should have mentioned that it wasn't under caution initially.

She's been receiving HB for 6 months now.

 

Estellyn - it is the money from the father (he's now in a new relationship and has since been made redundant too).

 

I'm really sorry - but I don't understand:

"If it were my client, I'd advise them not to mention that it was for a specific purpose, but that it is a private child maintenance arrangement and to apologise for not declaring it."

 

The father paid the money directly to the lettings agency - so it 'was' for a specific purpose - for the rent...it didn't go into her bank account so she had nothing to declare...oh hang on - should she have declared the initial payment of 6 months rent - is that what you mean?

 

No worries, to me at this point it seems not as serious as it could be if that makes sense.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but I read it as maybe Estellyn is in the legal profession, therefore she's more knowledgeable on these matters than me!

 

Surely a point can be made at the interview that even though the couple had split, he wanted to ensure his child had a roof over his head, therefore he paid rent to ensure they were settled back in the UK. There was never an intention for this to continue but was just agreed to in lieu of maintenance for his child whilst both the child and mother got themselves sorted.

That's more a question for Estellyn really, don't want to advise you to say something the authority may not accept at all!

[Weetabix999]

Thanks Hine Moa - that's exactly what the scerio was/is anyway.

[hine moa]

oh hang on - should she have declared the initial payment of 6 months rent - is that what you mean?

 

I think the declaration part Estellyn was referring to is you must make them aware of any Child Maintenance received, that includes telling the DWP. Even though they no longer take it into account they still want to know of any Child Maintenance you are receiving. I guess it just saves any unnecessary investigations if they come to find out there is an undeclared amount of money appearing in your account.

[Weetabix999]

Oh dear - she's just told me this:

 

In November, he paid an additional £600 maintenance fee into her account on top of the original 6 months rent which she didn't declare, so the plot thickens somewhat doesn't it..

[Weetabix999]

Sorry - just seen your post Hine Moa - so - she couldn't argue that as the £600 was for maintenance, she didn't think she had to declare it?

[antone]

Have to say I'm with id6052 on this one - I'm not seeing what's fraudulent about any of this, based on what's been posted.

 

But still, best not to mess around where these things are concerned, so let's make sure we have the facts clear:

 

 

 

• She lived abroad with her partner and young child. The relationship ended
  
• She and her child returned to the UK
  
• Her ex made a one-off payment of £3000 to the landlord to cover six months rent in advance
  
• This was in lieu of a child maintenance arrangement
  
• She claimed HB from the start of her tenancy
  
• The period covered by the £3000 has now run out, so she's arranging to pay the HB to the landlord
  
• She is no longer in a relationship with this man, and this can be demonstrated
  

Is this correct?