4 wks missed to BH - now demanding good backs - help

[Jason BrightHouse Web Rela]

Good Morning marcus6,

 

I can confirm that we will be sending our letter via recorded delivery and this will be posted out to you today.

 

The Customer Relations Team will also send you an email this morning, with the letter attached, including the tracking reference number.

 

Once again, I would like to thank you for your patience in the meantime and welcome you to continue to provide any updates or feedback using this thread once you have once you have received this.

 

Many Thanks

 

Jason

 

Web Relations Team

[marcus6]

what this one, i do like BH delaying tactics as thats all they are, I will be taking this up with the FOS & FCA

 

and FYI i asked for all OSC to be taken of all my items why would i just keep it on one item??

 

5 Hercules Way

Leavesden Park

Watford

Hertfordshire WD25 7GS

 

Tel 0800 526 069

 

Caversham Finance Limited

Registered Office

5 Hercules Way, Leavesden Park,

Watford, Hertfordshire WD25 7GS

Registered in England No 785922

 

Mr M

 

30th October 2013

Dear Mr m

Our Reference: F0

 

I write following your recent request to be reimbursed for all monies paid towards

the Optional Service Cover (“OSC”) and Damage Liability Cover (“DLC”).

 

You have stated that the reason for your refund is that you were mis-sold these covers

as you were told you had to have OSC and that DLC was added without your consent.

 

We have investigated your claim, and comment as follows;

 

As part of our standard procedure we provide all our customers with an explanation of the key terms of the credit agreement,

and also any additional covers they may have chosen.

 

This includes, but is not limited to, the following information.

 

1. Statutory rights under the credit agreement, including;

 

i) Right of withdrawal

ii) Rights to return goods provided they are in reasonable condition, and at least half the credit payments have been paid

iii) Rights to repairs

 

2. The additional benefits, that are above your statutory rights, that are available if OSC is taken,

such as;

 

i) Right to return at any time with nothing to pay

ii) Right to unlimited repairs during the agreement, including loan items provided for certain products

 

3. The requirement to keep the goods insured against accidental damage, fire and theft.

We advise that this cover may be provided by a home contents policy.

 

We offer DLC if a customer does not wish to take out home insurance policy or alternative cover.

We also advise that both the OSC and DLC can be cancelled with just 7 days notice.

 

Looking at some further detail of your case,

I note the following;

You signed the credit agreement, and separately signed for OSC and DLC on each occasion.

You have also initialled the explanatory notes, which indicate our standard process has been fully followed.

You also re-signed the agreements including a separate signature for both covers, upon your transfer to our Gravesend store in August 2011.

 

Furthermore,

I note that in December 2012 you visited the Gravesend store to request OSC to be removed from a number of your agreements.

However you chose to continue with the OSC on an agreement for a large screen television.

 

The local Store Manager has confirmed that you did so because you wanted to retain OSC benefits on this product.

This indicates your understanding of both the ability to cancel the cover at anytime and the benefits offered beyond of your statutory rights.

 

I also note that you have used the benefits of the OSC on items prior to removal.

For example, when your washing machine was repaired in June 2011, you had use of a loaner item;

a benefit that would not have been available to you should you not have chosen to take out the OSC.

 

In relation to DLC,

I again note that you signed for this cover with a separate signature on more than one occasion;

most recently during the removal of OSC in December 2012.

 

Since your first agreement in 2007, you have not previously indicated that you did not want this cover.

You have also never suggested that you have your own insurance policy or provided the store with any documentation to confirming an alternative insurance policy.

 

This suggests that you chose to take out the DLC to fulfil the obligations under the terms and conditions of the agreements.

 

To conclude;

You have been through our standard sign up process

You have signed for the credit agreements,

and separately for OSC and DLC

and initialled the explanatory notes, on more than one occasion

 

Through removal of OSC on some products and retaining the cover on a television,

you have indicated that you were fully aware of the benefits offered

and also the cancellable nature of the cover

 

We have not received proof of an alternative insurance policy to show that the goods were covered for fire, theft and accidental damage

 

We have found no records to show that you have queried either of these covers prior to your claim; received at our office on 8 October 2013.

 

Therefore, we can find no evidence of mis-selling of OSC or DLC.

 

I would again like to confirm that you have the right to terminate the OSC and DLC;

subject to the goods being insured against loss or damage caused by theft, fire or accident.

 

Please accept this is as our final decision in relation to this matter, under the terms of our complaints procedure.

 

If you remain dissatisfied you may be able to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

If you do, you are required to do so within six months from the date of this letter.

 

For more information please read the enclosed guide ‘Your Complaint and the Ombudsman’.

 

I do appreciate that this may not be the response that you were hoping for

but thank you for allowing us to investigate the points into your claim for reimbursement.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Customer Relations Department

 

Good Morning marcus6,

 

I can confirm that we will be sending our letter via recorded delivery and this will be posted out to you today.

 

The Customer Relations Team will also send you an email this morning, with the letter attached, including the tracking reference number.

 

Once again, I would like to thank you for your patience in the meantime and welcome you to continue to provide any updates or feedback using this thread once you have once you have received this.

 

Many Thanks

 

Jason

 

Web Relations Team

Edited October 31, 2013 by citizenB
removing personal details

[marcus6]

what dont BH undersatnd that i was told to sign for OSC & DLC or i could not get the item!

 

 

You have been through our standard sign up process You have signed for the credit agreements, and separately for OSC and DLC and initialled the explanatory notes

[dx100uk]

before I launch into them, because they have left themselves WIDE open there

 

this IS the org untouched text, bar redaction for pers info needs?

 

dx

[marcus6]

Hi dx, yes the only thing missing is my full name and there Ref/number, and thats what they emailed me and i have the same letter in the post on its way to me,

 

and yea i was thinking the same they have left them selfs wide open with this response!

 

 

all they have done is point to detail of there agreement, and left out the FACT i was told i had to take OSC when i got my 1st item and the DLC was added as well.

 

just delaying tactics

 

Thanks

 

 

 

before I launch into them, because they have left themselves WIDE open there

 

this IS the org untouched text, bar redaction for pers info needs?

 

dx

Edited October 30, 2013 by marcus6

[citizenB]

I have removed the name of the sender of the email.

[marcus6]

I have removed the name of the sender of the email.

 

Thanks citizenB,

[marcus6]

This response from CFL/BH is so wrong in so many ways,

 

I know there is more in the Act i just need to go over it. 1 or 2 points in Red.

 

 

Misleading actions, BH say if you have contents insurance then and only then you dont have to have there DLC as you can see , they have no right saying you have to have contents insurance.

 

 

 

5. (1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

 

(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph—

 

(a)if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and

(b)it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(3) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph if—

 

(a)it concerns any marketing of a product (including comparative advertising) which creates confusion with any products, trade marks, trade names or other distinguishing marks of a competitor; or

(b)it concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply with, if—

(i)the trader indicates in a commercial practice that he is bound by that code of conduct, and

(ii)the commitment is firm and capable of being verified and is not aspirational,

and it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise, taking account of its factual context and of all its features and circumstances.

 

(4) The matters referred to in paragraph (2)(a) are—

 

(a)the existence or nature of the product;

(b)the main characteristics of the product (as defined in paragraph 5);

©the extent of the trader’s commitments;

(d)the motives for the commercial practice;

(e)the nature of the sales process;

(f)any statement or symbol relating to direct or indirect sponsorship or approval of the trader or the product;

(g)the price or the manner in which the price is calculated;

(h)the existence of a specific price advantage;

(i)the need for a service, part, replacement or repair;

(j)the nature, attributes and rights of the trader (as defined in paragraph 6);

(k)the consumer’s rights or the risks he may face.

(5) In paragraph (4)(b), the “main characteristics of the product” include—

 

(a)availability of the product;

(b)benefits of the product;

©risks of the product;

(d)execution of the product;

(e)composition of the product;

(f)accessories of the product;

(g)after-sale customer assistance concerning the product;

(h)the handling of complaints about the product;

(i)the method and date of manufacture of the product;

(j)the method and date of provision of the product;

(k)delivery of the product;

(l)fitness for purpose of the product;

(m)usage of the product;

(n)quantity of the product;

(o)specification of the product;

(p)geographical or commercial origin of the product;

(q)results to be expected from use of the product; and

®results and material features of tests or checks carried out on the product.

(6) In paragraph (4)(j), the “nature, attributes and rights” as far as concern the trader include the trader’s—

 

(a)identity;

(b)assets;

©qualifications;

(d)status;

(e)approval;

(f)affiliations or connections;

(g)ownership of industrial, commercial or intellectual property rights; and

(h)awards and distinctions.

(7) In paragraph (4)(k) “consumer’s rights” include rights the consumer may have under Part 5A of the Sale of Goods Act 1979(1) or Part 1B of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982(2).

 

what this one, i do like BH delaying tactics as thats all they are, I will be taking this up with the FOS & FCA

 

and FYI i asked for all OSC to be taken of all my items why would i just keep it on one item??

 

5 Hercules Way

Leavesden Park

Watford

Hertfordshire WD25 7GS

 

Tel 0800 526 069

 

Caversham Finance Limited

Registered Office

5 Hercules Way, Leavesden Park,

Watford, Hertfordshire WD25 7GS

Registered in England No 785922

 

Mr M

 

30th October 2013

Dear Mr m

Our Reference: F0

 

I write following your recent request to be reimbursed for all monies paid towards

the Optional Service Cover (“OSC”) and Damage Liability Cover (“DLC”).

 

You have stated that the reason for your refund is that you were mis-sold these covers

as you were told you had to have OSC and that DLC was added without your consent.

 

We have investigated your claim, and comment as follows;

 

As part of our standard procedure we provide all our customers with an explanation of the key terms of the credit agreement,

and also any additional covers they may have chosen. nice to know there standard procedure is to Add DLC & make you take OSC (which is not imposed by legal or administrative requirements) .

 

This includes, but is not limited to, the following information.

 

1. Statutory rights under the credit agreement, including; i had the right to not take OSC & DLC but they told me i had to have OSC, and DLC was added also, so much for my Statutory rights

 

i) Right of withdrawal

ii) Rights to return goods provided they are in reasonable condition, and at least half the credit payments have been paid

iii) Rights to repairs

 

2. The additional benefits, that are above your statutory rights, that are available if OSC is taken,

such as;

 

i) Right to return at any time with nothing to pay

ii) Right to unlimited repairs during the agreement, including loan items provided for certain products

 

3. The requirement to keep the goods insured against accidental damage, fire and theft.

We advise that this cover may be provided by a home contents policy.

 

We offer DLC if a customer does not wish to take out home insurance policy or alternative cover.

We also advise that both the OSC and DLC can be cancelled with just 7 days notice.

 

Looking at some further detail of your case,

I note the following;

You signed the credit agreement, and separately signed for OSC and DLC on each occasion.

You have also initialled the explanatory notes, which indicate our standard process has been fully followed.

You also re-signed the agreements including a separate signature for both covers, upon your transfer to our Gravesend store in August 2011.

 

Furthermore,

I note that in December 2012 you visited the Gravesend store to request OSC to be removed from a number of your agreements.

However you chose to continue with the OSC on an agreement for a large screen television.

 

The local Store Manager has confirmed that you did so because you wanted to retain OSC benefits on this product.

This indicates your understanding of both the ability to cancel the cover at anytime and the benefits offered beyond of your statutory rights.

 

I also note that you have used the benefits of the OSC on items prior to removal.

For example, when your washing machine was repaired in June 2011, you had use of a loaner item;

a benefit that would not have been available to you should you not have chosen to take out the OSC.

 

In relation to DLC,

I again note that you signed for this cover with a separate signature on more than one occasion;

most recently during the removal of OSC in December 2012.

 

Since your first agreement in 2007, you have not previously indicated that you did not want this cover.

You have also never suggested that you have your own insurance policy or provided the store with any documentation to confirming an alternative insurance policy.

 

This suggests that you chose to take out the DLC to fulfil the obligations under the terms and conditions of the agreements.

 

To conclude;

You have been through our standard sign up process

You have signed for the credit agreements,

and separately for OSC and DLC

and initialled the explanatory notes, on more than one occasion

 

Through removal of OSC on some products and retaining the cover on a television,

you have indicated that you were fully aware of the benefits offered

and also the cancellable nature of the cover

 

We have not received proof of an alternative insurance policy to show that the goods were covered for fire, theft and accidental damage

 

We have found no records to show that you have queried either of these covers prior to your claim; received at our office on 8 October 2013.

 

Therefore, we can find no evidence of mis-selling of OSC or DLC.

 

I would again like to confirm that you have the right to terminate the OSC and DLC;

subject to the goods being insured against loss or damage caused by theft, fire or accident.

 

Please accept this is as our final decision in relation to this matter, under the terms of our complaints procedure.

 

If you remain dissatisfied you may be able to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

If you do, you are required to do so within six months from the date of this letter.

 

For more information please read the enclosed guide ‘Your Complaint and the Ombudsman’.

 

I do appreciate that this may not be the response that you were hoping for

but thank you for allowing us to investigate the points into your claim for reimbursement.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Customer Relations Department

 

have to stop there as i can feel my blood boiling....

Edited October 31, 2013 by marcus6

[marcus6]

Offences relating to unfair commercial practices

 

8. (1) A trader is guilty of an offence if—

 

(a)he knowingly or recklessly engages in a commercial practice which contravenes the requirements of professional diligence under regulation 3(3)(a); and

(b)the practice materially distorts or is likely to materially distort the economic behaviour of the average consumer with regard to the product under regulation 3(3)(b).

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(a) a trader who engages in a commercial practice without regard to whether the practice contravenes the requirements of professional diligence shall be deemed recklessly to engage in the practice, whether or not the trader has reason for believing that the practice might contravene those requirements.

[marcus6]

The more i look over the BH agreement the more i find.....how have they got away with giving this Agreement to consumers for so long?

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft311.pdf

Edited November 2, 2013 by marcus6

[marcus6]

Well i thuink DLC could come under this, as i was never asked if i wanted DLC it was just added, and even if i did get to Read them the fact they say you have to have them insured!?

9.3 We also object to terms which require consumers to accept that they are

bound by the terms of other linked contracts (for example, insurance

contracts) or rules or regulations unless they are given an appropriate

chance to read them.

 

as for OSC this one of many could be used. ( as i was told i had to have OSC)

 

14.1.3 Consumers commonly and naturally rely on what is said to them when they

are entering a contract. If they can be induced to part with money by claims

and promises, and the seller can then simply disclaim responsibility by using

an entire agreement clause, the scope for bad faith is clear. Even if such a

term is not deliberately abused, it weakens the seller's incentive to take care

in what he says, and to ensure that his employees and agents do so

 

 

 

 

I think this one can be used for both OSC & DLC

Group 18(a): Allowing the supplier to impose unfair financial

burdens

18.1.1 If a contract is to be considered balanced, each party must be subject only

to obligations which he or she has agreed to accept. Any kind of term

which allows the supplier to impose an unexpected financial burden on the

consumer gives rise to concern. It has an effect similar to a price variation

clause (see Group 12) and, like such a clause, cannot be considered an

exempt 'core term' because it does not clearly set an agreed price.

 

I never accepted DLC as it was just added with out me knowing, and OSC i did not want it but was told i had to have it

Edited November 3, 2013 by marcus6

[marcus6]

complaint will be sent this week to FOS.

[AcceptedWalnut]

Are you back on track and paying now marcus? I'm just interested in how you went about removing the insurances (if you have) and more interested in if you managed to remove dlc without your own insurance?

[marcus6]

I got the OSC taken of ( as i had been on CAG to ask the Q, and seen all the posts) But they would not take DLC off, all i can say is they have passed it on to DCA,

 

 

Are you back on track and paying now marcus? I'm just interested in how you went about removing the insurances (if you have) and more interested in if you managed to remove dlc without your own insurance?

[renegadeimp]

So basically theyre in breach of regulation and guidance.

[marcus6]

@dx let me know what you are thinking?

[marcus6]

Well when you take a good look over the Consumer Protection Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, so much in there!

 

one Big Unfair Trading Regulation in that act, is the fact BH have a clause in there old agreements, and i think thats why they have new agreements now with the OSC & DLC all rolled into it. and thats why they have put there cash prices up and there APR up to take in the fact they can not have that in there agreements no more, but they are not going to say that are they??

 

Clause 4.

 

This clause 4 is about Relevant claims. A "Relevant Claim" is any claim which you may have against any Brighthouse party relating to this Agreement,

any DLC policy, OSC policy, or OSC contract you have. by a"Claim" we mean all claims of any sort resulting from same incident or matter.

This includes any claims that a Brighthouse party:

* has breached this Agreement, any DLC Policy, OSC Policy or OSC contract you have

* has been negligent ( that is, has failed to take reasonable care) or

* has failed to comply with any statement made to you.

By a "Brighthouse party" we mean us, the insurers, any other member of the Brighthouse group of companies and any employee,agent or sub-contractor of us or any other Brighthouse party.

We hold the benefit of this clause 4 on trust for each other Brighthouse party, so they may rely on it even though they are not party to this agreement

 

 

That from the back of one of the agreements i have, How can they have this on there?, thats like saying to your staff! you can do what you like as we have this get-out Clause 4, if there is any claims

 

 

 

I think that C-4 would come under this part>>>

 

14.1.3 Consumers commonly and naturally rely on what is said to them when they

are entering a contract. If they can be induced to part with money by claims

and promises, and the seller can then simply disclaim responsibility by using

an entire agreement clause, the scope for bad faith is clear. Even if such a

term is not deliberately abused, it weakens the seller's incentive to take care

in what he says, and to ensure that his employees and agents do so

 

 

BH know it as well thats why they have had to re'write there contracts as they know FCA would come down hard on them, and the only way to do it, is put there cash prices & APR up, but still have the OSC & DLC benefits but with out having the wording there like they use to.

 

 

So basically theyre in breach of regulation and guidance.

Edited November 6, 2013 by marcus6

[dx100uk]

cant fault what you are doing.

 

practically everything I would have picked up on..

 

one point: you posted in post 158...

 

You have also never suggested that you have your own insurance policy or provided the store with any documentation to confirming an alternative insurance policy.

 

just be careful.

 

law no...T&C's yes.

 

but we all know T&C's can be challenged, hence the PPI/PENATY charges we get back.

 

the other int point is your complaint has mostly been fobbed off using your acceptance of signing docs

and having them/the insurance for a long period so could have acted sooner..

 

the fca are clearly down on record as stating that:

using what amounts to mere speculation that your selling processes were foolproof

or

referring to the fact that the complainant signed the agreement

and so thus must have read or had the insurance products terms explained to them

or

latterly had paperwork or statements that showed they were being levied the insurance product

................should not be used as a reason to reject a claim.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

got internet speed issues

above post has been clarified sri.

 

dx

[marcus6]

cant fault what you are doing.

 

practically everything I would have picked up on..

 

one point: you posted in post 158...

 

You have also never suggested that you have your own insurance policy or provided the store with any documentation to confirming an alternative insurance policy.

 

just be careful. you say be careful? have i said anything out of turn Reg BH

 

law no...T&C's yes.

 

but we all know T&C's can be challenged, hence the PPI/PENATY charges we get back.

 

the other int point is your complaint has mostly been fobbed off using your acceptance of signing docs

and having them/the insurance for a long period so could have acted sooner..

 

the fca are clearly down on record as stating that:

using what amounts to mere speculation that your selling processes were foolproof

or

referring to the fact that the complainant signed the agreement

and so thus must have read or had the insurance products terms explained to them

or

latterly had paperwork or statements that showed they were being levied the insurance product

................should not be used as a reason to reject a claim.

 

dx

 

Thanks dx

 

 

some of the points in Red & Black bold.

Edited November 6, 2013 by marcus6

[marcus6]

Hi all,

 

I have not been to well for some weeks now, but as i am feeling a lot better now! i will get all the info i have sent of to FOS! watch this space.

[Anus Horribilis]

Well done Marcus - keep your boot on their neck until they do the decent thing. It's the only approach that BH understand.

[marcus6]

Complaint has been sent today to the FOS, i have also been to court to get the paper work! i need to take this to court if i have to!

 

Thanks

[marcus6]

Hi all,

 

I got letter back from the FOS, just to say thank you for contacting them and they will get back to me ASAP with in 6 weeks.

 

Thanks

[marcus6]

Hi all,

 

I had a letter from the FOS last week, asking me about the dates that i had put down, and also asking when did i receive the advice about reclaiming the OSC & DLC, so i called them like they asked me to, and give them the info, i then sent them an Email (as i wanted to let them know what i had to do to get my Paper work from BH) Telling them about the Time it took for my SAR and that i had to get the ICO onto BH to get my paper work that they should have sent once they got my SAR, FOS have sent me an Email saying they will add the email to my case and thanking me for sending it.

 

I also pointed out in my email that BH now use new Agreements and that the New ones dont have the OSC or DLC as its all rolled into one now as they come under FCA.....