Halifax/1st Credit

[PGH7447]

subbing

[caledfwlch]

Thanks Linus!! !! im going to reply Im rather bemused that youe ASKING me for supporting evidence..If you have brought this debt then you will hav all the paper work ..now can you answer my Question RE my letter dated Blah blah Blah

 

and Yellow ..no one has got hold of Barry Davis ..maybe he the INVISABLE MAN

 

Is'nt that a breach of the Insolvency rules, if the person named on an SD is uncontactable?

[Yellow160]

Is'nt that a breach of the Insolvency rules, if the person named on an SD is uncontactable?

 

i think you maybe correct.. but the way cr@pquest send the SD's out is questionable itself. Sometimes when you call them and ask for him you get the reply, Who?

[babydoll0141917]

Is'nt that a breach of the Insolvency rules, if the person named on an SD is uncontactable?

 

Yep I beleive it is CALEDFWLCH..One of the reasons im ignoring mine !!

[babydoll0141917]

i think you maybe correct.. but the way cr@pquest send the SD's out is questionable itself. Sometimes when you call them and ask for him you get the reply, Who?

 

They issue them like confetti YELLOW ..Has it cost them nothing..and they hoping it scares you !! NOT ME!! If the personally serve..I will SETASIDE

[nicklea]

Is'nt that a breach of the Insolvency rules, if the person named on an SD is uncontactable?

 

Well, as in all sorts of cases, it's not quite as simple as that.

 

It's often said on this forum that if you try to contact someone on the telephone 3 times and you can't then this is enough to get the SD set aside.

 

Unfortunately, I would suggest that this isn't the case.

 

If you actually have a read of the relevant part of the Insolvency Rules, it just mentions ''communication'' - not ''communication by telephone'':-

 

(2) The demand must specify one or more named individuals with whom the debtor may, if he

wishes, enter into communication with a view to securing or compounding for the debt to the

satisfaction of the creditor or (as the case may be) establishing to the creditor's satisfaction that

there is a reasonable prospect that the debt will be paid when it falls due.

In the case of any individual so named in the demand, his address and telephone number (if any)

must be given.

 

I would suggest that the inclusion of the words ''if any'' indicates that there is no presumption that communication MUST be by telephone. Even if no telephone number were to be given then an address would be sufficient for the debtor to enter into communication. Therefore, even if you have not been able to communicate by means of the telephone, as long as there is an address the debtor has been given the ability to communicate with the named individual.

 

I know this may be poorly worded but, I would suggest, any half-competant solicitor that a debtor is facing would be able to word it much more effectively in front of any judge.

[Yellow160]

maybe a letter sent for his attention via recorded post and see what happens then. But i guess anyone at Cr@pquest could respond and claim to be him. Im sure i saw a thread on here where a judge asked him to attend court and he didnt show..

[Tingy]

Totally agree Nick, though I do think there's likely to be an issue here over the legality of whether or not the SD's have actually been served. With the sheer number they are obviously issuing at the moment, they cannot be trying to serve every one personally before reverting to post.

[Yellow160]

on a side note, wasnt the ghost of Barry Davies at 1st credit at some point and in a similar position dishing out SD's for fun?

[Tingy]

Already posted elsewhere, but from another site developed with sequenci, so must be OK here too.

 

Debt Collection agencies & Statutory Demands

 

a few strategies

 

 

Of late, more and more Debt Collection agencies seem to have a penchant for bankruptcy proceedings rather than going down the traditional route of County Court money judgments. It may seem that these agencies send out Statutory Demands purely as a scare tactic but each case should be treated as if the intention is to issue the Creditor’s petition.

 

The service of a Statutory Demand can be by various means, it may be possible to speculate on how serious the creditor is depending on their choice of service, however, the fact that the demand is posted shouldn’t allow an assumption to made that the creditor will not follow up with the petition. 1st Credit/Connaught have been sending their Statutory Demands out via 2nd class pot, this I was hoping to challenge.

 

The wording of CPR PD INSOLV 11.1 states: "where it is not possible to effect prompt personal service, service may be effected by other means such as first class post...", which does not entirely rule out second class post. However, it would probably be possible to obtain an extension of time in which to respond to the demand if sending it by second class post meant that it actually arrived later than the seventh day after posting, which is deemed to be the date of service for a Statutory Demand sent by first class post.

 

Under further investigation of the Insolvency practice directions it should be noted that the service of the Statutory Demand should only be served by post if the creditor has tried to bring it to the debtor’s attention via a personal service, where possible. The process involved is set out in CPR PD INSOLV 11.4 .

 

The creditor is under obligation to take reasonable steps to bring the demand to the debtor’s attention and if, practicable, personal service should take place. Where this is not possible, the creditor is allowed to serve the demand either via post or through a letterbox, but it is expected that following steps have taken place first:

• One personal visit to each of the debtor’s known residencies and places of business
  
• If it is not possible to serve the Statutory Demand during the visit(s), a letter should be sent to the debtor making her/him aware of the visit(s) have taken place and purpose of the visit(s). The letter should also state that another visit will be made for the same purpose and specify the date, time and place. At least two business days’ notice must be given. The letter should also state that if the time and place are inconvenient, the debtor should name a reasonable alternative. The letter can also state that if the debtor fails to keep the appointment, the demand will be posted/inserted through a letterbox and, if a bankruptcy petition is presented, the court will be requested to accept this as a service of demand. Copies of the letter should be sent to all known addresses of the debtor.
  

If the creditor presents a bankruptcy petition to the court, an affidavit has to be sworn giving details of service of the Statutory Demand. If a demand was not served personally and no written acknowledgement of service has been received from the debtor, the creditor must set out the steps it has taken to ensure the demand has been served on the debtor. If the court is not satisfied that the creditor has carried out their obligations, it can refuse to issue a petition.

 

So, to move forward with challenging the creditors there are a few things the debtor could consider doing.

• Check whether the creditor or agency has the right to chase the debt in the first instance. Has the debtor received a default notice? If the debt has been transferred, a notice of assignation?
  
• Request a copy of the agreement/statement of account under s77-79 CCA 1974. Some debt collection agencies are very bad at having the correct paperwork; some might try and fob you off with an application form. Check if the amount being chased is inclusive of any excessive fees and charges. There may be the opportunity to have the Statutory Demand set aside on the grounds that the debt is disputed. It could well be that the debtor has a counterclaim equal or greater than the sum claimed by the creditor.
  
• The demand doesn’t comply with the Insolvency Rules 1986, in this ground it must be shown that an injustice has been caused, eg, the demand is confusing and the debtor cannot reasonably understand the true position between her/himself and the creditor.
  

Stopping the Creditor’s Petition

 

 

If all attempts to halt the Statutory Demand fail it is still possible to avoid bankruptcy. Any opposition to the order being made will need to be filed at least 7 days prior to the hearing setting out the grounds. In order to justify a dismissal, the debtor would need to show a “substantial injustice”. The courts’ powers to make a bankruptcy order are discretionary, under r6.25(1) IR 1986 a court may make an order if it is satisfied that the statements in the petition are true and that debt on which it is founded has not been paid or secured or compounded. s271(1) IA 1986 prohibits the court from making a bankruptcy order unless it is satisfied that:

• The debt has not been paid; or
  
• The debt has not been secured to the creditor’s satisfaction; or
  
• The debt has not been compounded for; or
  
• The debt is one which will become payable in the future and the debtor does not have a reasonable prospect of being to pay it when it becomes due
  

s271(3) IA 1986 gives the court power to dismiss the petition if it is satisfied that any of the following apply:

• The debtor is able to pay ALL her/his debts; or
  
• The debtor has made an offer to secure or compound for the debt and the creditor has unreasonably refused it. (The onus would be on the debtor to prove that the debt was unreasonable refused – the offer would have to be realistic and practicable. A creditor is entitled to consider their own interests, but a rigid application of an organisation’s policies could amount to “institutional unreasonableness”. My own interpretation is that if a creditor doesn’t adhere to the OFT debt collection guidance then I would argue there is institutional unreasonableness being carried out. Whether or not a judge would agree is another story!
  

Other possible defences:

• The debt is subject to a judgment or order of the court which is payable by instalments and no default has occurred or enforcement has been suspended
  
• The debt is subject to a judgement or order of the court and an appeal is pending.
  

 

• It might be possible to apply for a Time Order under s129 of the CCA 1974.
  
• The debt is subject to a judgment or order, but the court considers, in the particular circumstances of the case, that this does not prove there is a legitimate bankruptcy debt .
  
• The amount of the debt was overstated on the Statutory Demand and the actual amount owed has been paid within 21 days of service.
  
• The debt is £750 or more but there is a bona fide dispute, which would bring the undisputed amount to below £750.
  
• An IVA interim order has been made
  
• There is an outstanding application for the Statutory Demand to be set aside.
  
• If any of the rules have not been complied with or the court feels that the petition should be dismissed or proceedings stayed “for any other reason”.
  

In summary

 

As it seems that the use of bankruptcy proceedings is likely to increase the question should raised whether or not it is fair for debt collection agencies to use these tactics as a first resort. The whole question of “is it reasonable?” should be aired and the debtor should certainly consider complaining about any unfair tactics adopted by these firms. Is a debt collection agency “fit” to hold a consumer credit licence if they seem not to adhere to the OFT’s guidance on debt collection guidance? Here is hoping that the recent changes to allow the FOS to investigate consumer credit complaints and the forthcoming changes to the Consumer Credit Act assist in preventing growth in this current oppressive trend.

 

 

Things to check

 

• Was the Statutory Demand served correctly?
  
• Are there any possible grounds to set the Statutory Demand aside?
  
• Does the Debt Collection Agency have the right to chase the debt?
  
• Is it likely that the DCA will issue a Creditor’s petition?
  
• Is it possible to oppose the Creditor’s petition?
  
• Is it possible to arrange an alternative to bankruptcy? (i.e. Voluntary Charge)
  

 

Yes this is a CAG rip but Sequenci and I spent alot of time on this subject.

Debt Collection Agencies Statutory Demands, a few strategies - The Consumer Forums

 

We are going to be seeing more and more of these coming through when the DCA's realise that they are on to a looser with dodgy agreements.

 

SD's used to be the preserve of Connaught Collections for 1st Credit, but now RED debt and Capquest are getting in on the act. I'm not even going to mention GoDebt as I don't really have alot of experience with them.

______________

[nicklea]

Tingy,

 

I totally agree with you.

 

In most of these cases, where SDs are just sent by oridinary post, I would suggest that the creditor has got absolutely no intention of followiing through with the threat. In these cases, I really would suggest the best thing is to ignore them.

 

But there are a few cases where people have had these delivered personally through the door or sent by recorded delivery and these have then been followed by bankruptcy petitions.

 

The issue that I'm trying to highlight here is that people shouldn't try to set aside SDs without having appropriate grounds for doing so and, unfortunately, not being able to telephone the named individual is not grounds to get a SD set aside - in my opinion.

[Yellow160]

fully agree with that, im disputing the amount owed due to the high amount of charges that have been applied to the account. If the charges were removed then the amount owed would be £400 (ish) and not the £1200 they claim, Which at £400 would prevent them from trying to scare me with a SD.

[Tingy]

fully agree with that, im disputing the amount owed due to the high amount of charges that have been applied to the account. If the charges were removed then the amount owed would be £400 (ish) and not the £1200 they claim, Which at £400 would prevent them from trying to scare me with a SD.

 

I think there are two things you need to do (you may already have done them). Firstly you need to cover your back and take the SD seriously just in case. Secondly you need, as urgently as possible, to get an accurate breakdown of the fees from the DCA. If your debt is only £400 obviously they cannot send you a SD, but if you ended up in court, I doubt the judge would have much sympathy with you standing there saying I thought my debt was only £400. You'd need at least to be able to show why it SHOULD be only £400.

[Yellow160]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?302343-Capquest/page2

as not to hijack this thread, mine is here.. will post a reply to yours on there.

 

Ta

[maxedout]

Hi babydoll. Same here with capquest and marbles. They told me mine was on hold while they look into complaint but still sticking charges on about 300 on default amount in about four months. Maybe if they inflate the amount owed when they sell it on they get a better price ? sell for same % but on larger debt.

[babydoll0141917]

they havent even tryed to deleiver my SD by personnal service !! Just the normal postie brought it!! If I did hav to get it set a side..The amount is wrong ..the recon CCA is def not one I signed..it has a new card number on it( Ive never had a card with the new number on it) the cca was just printed off Crapys printer..I know because robberways chased this once and they printed the same off but the writting of my address was different on both..CQ was the way they head their letters and RW the way they do !! I know theyhavent got aleg to stand on ..mind you BR wouldnt be to bad for me..I hav nothing..so they would all get nothing and end off

[babydoll0141917]

BUMPPPPPPPP!! has no1 has given me any idea as to what letter to write ..I think ill just ignor them

 

Thanks guys

[babydoll0141917]

UPDATE!! Capquest hav now passed this over to Muck/hall,,2 letters arrived this AM one saying they are collecting on behalf of capquest and all the usual threats and riff raff,,the other stating doorstep visit has i haavent answered any of their letters LOL..be a bit difficult if i only got them 2day and 2 the same day ..!! gonna totally ignore ..Still in dispute with Crap..they can go and play with the traffic on the M25

[PGH7447]

nope best to send them the being chased while in dispute letter, found in the templates section, cut them off at the pass

[babydoll0141917]

OH OK ..will Do !! Thanks

[silverfox1961]

Hi

Did anything come of the SD? Did you try to set it aside?

[babydoll0141917]

Hi Silver

 

No nothing came of it!! didnt get it set aside!! Postman Brought it..so they werent serious!! if one was hand deleivered Id get SETASIDE )

[silverfox1961]

Hi

 

 

Capquest have gone a little quiet now so think it is about time you reported them to the OFT if you haven’t done so already.

 

 

Please bear in mind that the template letter on the first page of this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...=1#post3422496

 

may not be suitable for all and you will have to adapt it to your own circumstances I.E

You applied to get it set aside and CQ didn't turn up

You applied and CQ agreed to discontinue

You ignored and CQ did nothing

 

 

Today the OFT set out some new guidance and sending SD's as a debt collection tool is now frowned upon.

If you want to read it, here's the link

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/con.../OFT664Rev.pdf

 

You can complain by email and the OFT will email you back a form to sign and post back to them for them to be able to add your complaint to their list.

 

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/contactus;jses...1D83BF0004F6EA

 

I will be sending this post to every Cagger I have on my list so you may receive it again.

[babydoll0141917]

UPDATE!! after seeing off robbers way with this Debt..a few years back ..all was quiet until today .Halifax have a signed this debt to 1st Crud..Looking over the site seems 1st crud have brought alot of Halifax accounts....the account has always been in dispute,,Only an application was sent ..T&Cs on the back codes on front and back dont match so def dodgy,,DN only giving 6 days to redeem,,Never received a TN,,Have kept all letters from 2008,Where do I go from here?? Ive seen that 1st crud are issuing SD,,they did send me one for a citi account 2 years ago ..Nothing happened and not heard from them since..Do I wait and see what their nxt move is ?? tell them the account was stilll in dispute( not that it will do any good) Or send them a CCA

 

thanks guys

[dpick]

Hi just reading the thread as they have not fore filled a CCA request they should not be able to take to court but you know how these ******* work so I would CCA them or send the bemused letter then wait out until they send you something that needs a reply and if they try SD go for set aside and wasted costs make them pay for a change.

 

dpick

 

dpick