ESA Knockback

[Charlie996]

Some of You may recall me being given 0 points at an ATOS assessment some weeks ago and many of you kindly gave me the advice needed to fill in the GL24 form in order to lodge an appeal against the decision so as to be put onto the assessment rate until the appeal could be heard..

 

Prior to the o score I had been in the support group for 18 months....

When I went to the assessment I was in acute distress as I am suffering from diagnosed clinical depression and acute anxiety. I also handed in a letter from the Consultant Psychiatrist that is treating me stating that I would be unfit for work for some months.. Still I scored a zero...........

 

Anyway I filled in the GL24 and have now received a letter telling me that because I was on ESA in the support group for more than 365 days I would be receiving no money at all !

 

I actually had to phone in as in one sentence the letter said I would be paid and in the next it said I would not !! The Lady on the phone says I will get no further help or any money.

 

I am in total shock over this as it leaves me really struggling. In fact I had been depending on at least something coming through....

 

So what the heck do I do now ????????????????

 

365 Days may be a long time to be off sick and in my case its been 18 months but it took 9 months to get to see a Consultant Psychiatrist and I am still awaiting a course of therapy to begin.. So 18 months to get the right treatment and now before it starts they cut the money that I was to use to get me to the treatments.. The drugs I am on are so powerful I am not allowed to drive and it is my Wife who has typed this up.

 

I really do feel desperate now !! Before this lot kicked off I had worked from the age of 15 until two years ago and never missed a day from work. I went 6 months without claiming anything as I though I would just get better..

 

Sorry to go on but I am at my wits end again here and feel truly desperate..

 

Thanks.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Charlie996

[Slatted]

It sounds as if you were on Contribution based ESA which is only payable for a year.

 

It would seem that as you are now appealling the decision, you are not exactly in Support Group anymore, that has triggered the 12 month rule.

 

If you do not have savings of over £6000 nor other income (DLA is not included in this category) you may be able to get Income Based ESA which has no such time limit, I believe. Unfortunately, though. your marital status may also count against any further income as a working partner is meant to support you if they are doing sufficient hours.

 

I know it is little consolation but should your appeal be successful you would be entitled to back pay from the date they stopped paying, but that can take quite a while. Sorry.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Slatted

[Charlie996]

Thanks for the reply !!

 

I'm a lot confused here ! As I understand it an appeal can take 6 to 12 months ? So If I get better either fully or partially surely I will not be able to demonstrate how I am at this time so will lose ?

 

At the moment I have the Consultant Psychiatrist and my Doctor along with the people who assessed me for the up coming course of treatment all saying I am unfit for work.... But that position will I hope change !

 

As for whether I was on income based or contribution based ESA frankly I haven't a clue !! This episode is the first time I have claimed in my life and I am 55 now...

 

Thanks .

[Slatted]

It is very confusing, even if you have claimed benefits before it is no clearer believe me!

 

And yes it is the "piece of string" as to how long to wait for an appeal. Some regions are quicker than others and some are fast tracked.

[debt4get]

if they are pulling the 365 day rule then you are definitely claiming contribution ESA, if you have a partner who is working or even in receipt of some benefits then you will get next to nothing on income based ESA, as i found to my cost, it meant a cut of about 70 quid a week...you will need to find out whether you are entitled to income based ESA and wait for appeal

have a look here input figures and it is pretty accurate

http://www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits_search.aspx

[flumps1976]

You do need to establish of you have any entitlement to Income Related ESA and the link debt4det gave is really good, if you do have entitlement then you need to request form ESA3 from the benefit centre and request the payment is taken back to the date to your last payment.

[Charlie996]

Right honesty time.. We have savings of 17800 pounds. This however we have saved over the years and have promised this money for my daughters wedding which is next year....

 

When on the phone today I was asked if I had savings so I told the truth. I do not wish to claim anything I am not entitled to ! Nor would I lie as I have enough worries without adding to them by adding fraud to the list !

 

I worked very hard up until my accident in 2007. I worked hard and I paid a huge amount in taxes and other contributions .....

 

I feel a real fool now though as I wish like many I had taken a shall we say slightly less honest approach to the way I filled in those tax returns .. But I didn't. I played a straight game as this was instilled onto me by my Dad.................... More fool me eh ??

 

Sorry rant over..

 

But Im still please looking for an answer to the question above ?

 

If I get better and take this to tribunal will I loose ? I am at this moment very unwell indeed ( I should also repeat these are my words typed by someone else) and the decision though both I and the Consultant and the family GP is ridiculous what happens if when I go to tribunal will happen ?

 

If the tribunal was tomorrow I feel I could honestly demonstrate the decision was wrong.

 

If the tribunal is in 6 or 12 months time that may not be the same ??

 

Thanks !

[honeybee13]

Hello Charlie.

 

I don't know the answer about savings I'm afraid, but I think people here will.

 

Is there any chance you could edit your first post so it's easier to read please? It should get you more answers.

 

My best, HB

[Charlie996]

Sorry I don't know what has happened to the first post ??

In what way should I edit it ??? Sorry very confused its been one of those days ...

[debt4get]

Some of You may recall me being given 0 points at an ATOS assessment some weeks ago and many of you kindly gave me the advice needed to fill in the GL24 form in order to lodge an appeal against the decision so as to be put onto the assessment rate until the appeal could be heard..

 

 

 

Prior to the o score I had been in the support group for 18 months.....

 

When I went to the assessment I was in acute distress as I am suffering from diagnosed clinical depression and acute anxiety. I also handed in a letter from the Consultant Psychiatrist that is treating me stating that I would be unfit for work for some months.. Still I scored a zero...........

 

 

 

Anyway I filled in the GL24 and have now received a letter telling me that because I was on ESA in the support group for more than 365 days I would be receiving no money at all !

 

 

 

I actually had to phone in as in one sentence the letter said I would be paid and in the next it said I would not !! The Lady on the phone says I will get no further help or any money.

 

 

 

I am in total shock over this as it leaves me really struggling. In fact I had been depending on at least something coming through....

 

 

 

So what the heck do I do now ????????????????

 

 

 

365 Days may be a long time to be off sick and in my case its been 18 months but it took 9 months to get to see a Consultant Psychiatrist and I am still awaiting a course of therapy to begin.. So 18 months to get the right treatment and now before it starts they cut the money that I was to use to get me to the treatments.. The drugs I am on are so powerful I am not allowed to drive and it is my Wife who has typed this up..

 

 

 

I really do feel desperate now !! Before this lot kicked off I had worked from the age of 15 until two years ago and never missed a day from work. I went 6 months without claiming anything as I though I would just get better..

 

 

 

Sorry to go on but I am at my wits end again here and feel truly desperate..

 

 

 

Thanks.

unfortunately your first post looks like this so it is difficult to read, your savings alone are going to stop you getting ESA income based, and they will expect you to live on the money until you have got that down to about 6k....i think paying for your daughters wedding will be classed as 'deprivation of capital' though that decision will be taken by a DM (decision maker) inside the DWP...

[debt4get]

Right honesty time.. We have savings of 17800 pounds. This however we have saved over the years and have promised this money for my daughters wedding which is next year....

 

When on the phone today I was asked if I had savings so I told the truth. I do not wish to claim anything I am not entitled to ! Nor would I lie as I have enough worries without adding to them by adding fraud to the list !

 

I worked very hard up until my accident in 2007. I worked hard and I paid a huge amount in taxes and other contributions .....

 

I feel a real fool now though as I wish like many I had taken a shall we say slightly less honest approach to the way I filled in those tax returns .. But I didn't. I played a straight game as this was instilled onto me by my Dad.................... More fool me eh ??

 

Sorry rant over..

 

But Im still please looking for an answer to the question above ?

 

If I get better and take this to tribunal will I loose ? I am at this moment very unwell indeed ( I should also repeat these are my words typed by someone else) and the decision though both I and the Consultant and the family GP is ridiculous what happens if when I go to tribunal will happen ?

 

If the tribunal was tomorrow I feel I could honestly demonstrate the decision was wrong.

 

If the tribunal is in 6 or 12 months time that may not be the same ??

 

Thanks !

unfortunately none of us can answer the question of will you win at tribunal? it is obviously difficult for us to judge how your illness affects your ability to do any work...you have to remember it is not a test designed to see if you can do the work you used to do, but is designed to reflect that you could do ANY work, even press a button with your finger...the test that ATOS does is nonsense and we all agree is not fit for purpose, but it is the one we are stuck with for the time being....i can understand your anger at the system, a lot of us are angry at the system, but you have to look at how your illness fits in the descriptors and how it affects YOU

[flumps1976]

The tribunal is an independant panel and they will be looking at your condition for that time wheb you failed the WCA medical so anything after that date will have no bearing on that decision. Nobody can give you the answer on how the decision will made though sorry, you need to ensure the appeal is submitted asap.

You can also spend you money however you want but if it is not deemed as an essential spend then the Decision Maker could determine that you still have the monwey available (called deprivation of capital), yes it is a lovely thought that you want to pay for your daughters wedding and very traditional but in all honesty I can't see that being an amount they could allow iygwim? (They don't usually acceot paying off a mortgage or credit card unless the balance has been requested by the lender!)

[Charlie996]

The tribunal is an independant panel and they will be looking at your condition for that time wheb you failed the WCA medical so anything after that date will have no bearing on that decision. Nobody can give you the answer on how the decision will made though sorry, you need to ensure the appeal is submitted asap.

You can also spend you money however you want but if it is not deemed as an essential spend then the Decision Maker could determine that you still have the monwey available (called deprivation of capital), yes it is a lovely thought that you want to pay for your daughters wedding and very traditional but in all honesty I can't see that being an amount they could allow iygwim? (They don't usually acceot paying off a mortgage or credit card unless the balance has been requested by the lender!)

 

Yes I realise paying for the wedding or some of it is not classed as essential. I realise also that it could as you say be classed as capital deprivation. Fact is though or as I understand it I am 17 0r 1800 pounds above the limit for applying for the other type of ESA ?? Blimey the money has been dropping anyway as I am not managing to survive on the £105 per week anyway !!

 

All I was trying to do was be sensible and honest ..

 

I was told by a couple of clued up folk some months ago that if I were to unload some of Our life savings I could then apply for all other sorts of benefits like council tax ect ect..

 

I chose not to take this path. I could not live with doing something like this........... I will admit though after the way I have been treated I think now that I should have listened....

 

I actually have no doubt that the decision was a joke ! My GP and the Consultant are both amazed and furious at the decision.

 

Im sure getting letters from them will be no problem to prove how I am at this time...

 

Is the basis of the tribunal to decide how I was at the time of the assessment ? Is that what its about ?

 

As said above in a rather clumsy way... If in say six months time when the tribunal takes place I have improved in my condition then will that influence the panel ? Or are we as talking about now ???

 

Sorry to keep asking but this is just so confusing..

[debt4get]

the tribunal is based on how you were at the time of assessment, you could indeed be a lot better by the time that the tribunal comes around, but providing you supply the tribunal the evidence of how you were, and providing you fit the descriptors at that time then they should theoretically rule in your favour....you have the evidence from your doctors etc, this will be looked at by the tribunal in the meantime collect as much evidence as you can get....

[Charlie996]

the tribunal is based on how you were at the time of assessment, you could indeed be a lot better by the time that the tribunal comes around, but providing you supply the tribunal the evidence of how you were, and providing you fit the descriptors at that time then they should theoretically rule in your favour....you have the evidence from your doctors etc, this will be looked at by the tribunal in the meantime collect as much evidence as you can get....

Thanks ! That clears things up ......

[sadone]

I always thought that when in the support group the 355 day rule didn't apply? Only when you were on the WRAG group?

[Nystagmite]

Yes. There's no limit on how long you can receive contributions based ESA whilst in the support group.

[45002]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Illorinjured/DG_171891

 

Entitlement conditions

 

There are two types of Employment and Support Allowance:

 

• contribution-based
  
• income-related
  

Contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance

 

You may be entitled to claim contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance if you have paid enough National Insurance contributions. The length of time you can get contribution-based Employment Support Allowance depends on your circumstances. If you are not in the support group, contribution-based Employment Support Allowance is time limited to 365 days.

Income-based Employment and Support Allowance

 

You may be entitled to claim income-based Employment and Support Allowance if you do not have enough money coming in, or you have not paid enough National Insurance contributions, and you satisfy the entitlement conditions.

This means that you have savings of less than £16,000 and, if you have a partner or civil partner, they work for less than 24 hours a week on average. There is no limit on the amount of time you can claim income-based Employment and Support Allowance as long as you satisfy the entitlement conditions.

 

[Zarbafi]

 

Prior to the o score I had been in the support group for 18 months....

 

365 Days may be a long time to be off sick and in my case its been 18 months but it took 9 months to get to see a Consultant Psychiatrist and I am still awaiting a course of therapy to begin.. So 18 months to get the right treatment and now before it starts they cut the money that I was to use to get me to the treatments.. The drugs I am on are so powerful I am not allowed to drive and it is my Wife who has typed this up.

 

 

Firstly I really don't see how they can move people straight from the support group to nothing, I really feel that especially as they were the once who placed that person in the support group in the fiest place that at the very least they should be transitioned off ESA via WRAG as they are obviously still recovering from some major health issues. In terms of your finances even that doesn't help you much I know if they feel you have too much in savings or your wife earns too much. It's a very cruel system indeed.

 

Secondly you make a good point about the disconnect between what support is available from the NHS and what you get in benefits. So that the doctor assessing you at ATOS may think (and he is no psychiatrist) that 18 months is a reasonable time frame for you to recover from anxiety and depression however as you state it took 9 months of that time to get an appointment with a psychiatrist and you are still waiting on a major part of your treatment to begin. Not to mention the effects of the drugs you take.

 

I see this issue over and over for those on ESA, I believe the NHS does the best it can under strained circumstances but many people who now see a consultant and say that their condtion is bearable and managable when they are at home but that they are under pressure to return to work so they need more help, better, stronger drugs, treatment etc are being told by consultants that the best thing would probably be just for them to stay home and not work, easy for them to say but the DWP just isn't having that anymore. In addition the reassement times are too frequent and don't take into account the slow pace of the NHS i.e. having to wait six months inbetween appointment times to see consultant so far it has taken me a who year to try one pretty unsuccessful treatment regime which had some pretty nasty side effects. If I had ben able to see my consultant more often I might have been able to try something else sooner and be better by now however that is just not the way they NHS works and I do appreciate that. However the DWP / ATOS seems to take the most optimistic outlook on a persons illness progression and the reality is never so straight forward.

 

 

I am not sure how this really helps you but it is an important point and one you should discuss with anyone supporting you with your appeal which I hope you do go ahead with, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with these things.

[estellyn]

Yes days in the support group do not count towards the 365 day limit. You should challenge this decision - sadly the DWP seem to be getting this wrong a lot.

[Charlie996]

Yes days in the support group do not count towards the 365 day limit. You should challenge this decision - sadly the DWP seem to be getting this wrong a lot.

 

Today I got another letter from DWP which was again very confusing !!

 

So once again I phoned them.. Once again the operative told me that my time in the support group was more than 365 days so I would receive no further payments !

 

Are you sure that time in the support group does not count ?? Could you please give me any documentation or a link to something that would prove what you are saying is correct ?

 

If I have something then I will get back on the phone to them ASAP but something concrete would really come in very handy !! Thank You !!!

[debt4get]

the link is on post 18

[Charlie996]

Yes. There's no limit on how long you can receive contributions based ESA whilst in the support group.

 

My understanding is..

 

There is no time limit or at least no limit of 365 days when in the "support" group.. I was definitely in the support group and was paid 105 pounds a week paid every 2 weeks..

 

Having failed to score at the ATOS assessment means I am in no group at all now as effectively DWP have kicked me off..

 

They say that because I have been on ESA for more than 365 days I will get no payments while under appeal. I will only get any more help if I am successful at the appeal...

 

If the time in the "support group" does not count then I will be back onto them straight away ....

 

Thank You all very much !! You have given me hope !!

[Charlie996]

the link is on post 18

 

I cannot find the part I need in there ?? Can You help please ?? Thanks !!

[Charlie996]

the link is on post 18

 

I cannot find the part I need in there ?? Can You help please ?? Thanks !!