ESA Knockback

[estellyn]

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/changes-to-contribution/

 

Scroll down to the bottom and click on the questions and answers link. A few papagraphs in, it states clearly, no time in the support group counts towards the 365 days.

[Charlie996]

Really sorry I cannot fathom what I should be looking for ??

[Charlie996]

Is it this part ?

When the claimant moves into the Support Group the time they spent in the

Assessment Phase immediately before placement in the Support Group will

not count towards the 365 days time-limit (although previous periods spent in

the Assessment Phase may still count). If they move out of the Support Group

in the future and are placed in the Work Related Activity Group, the 365 days

will re-start from the point it previously stopped

[Charlie996]

Or is it this ?

 

To limit the amount of time people can receive contributionbased Employment and Support Allowance to 365 days if the claimant is in

the Work Related Activity Group or assessment phase. The 365 day time-limit

does not include any time spent in the Support Group or the time spent in the

assessment phase if they moved from the assessment phase into the Support

Group at the start of their claim.

To remove the special contribution conditions that allowed some young

people to qualify for contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance

without paying National Insurance contributions.

The 104 week linking rule has also been abolished by separate regulations

 

Please bear with me as I am getting some help with understanding this and the typing as I cannot cope alone.. These I promise though are my words ..

 

It says that time spent in the support group do not count... You are right !! But as I am now disallowed can they be made to count ? Is there an example of this happening before ?

 

I cannot thank you enough for this as it genuinely has given me a lifeline !!

 

I just need to get the facts absolutely right before I ring again as I feel like making a complaint about being told twice that I will get no more help..

 

Thank You !!

[estellyn]

Or is it this ?

 

To limit the amount of time people can receive contributionbased Employment and Support Allowance to 365 days if the claimant is in

the Work Related Activity Group or assessment phase. The 365 day time-limit

does not include any time spent in the Support Group or the time spent in the

assessment phase if they moved from the assessment phase into the Support

Group at the start of their claim.

To remove the special contribution conditions that allowed some young

people to qualify for contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance

without paying National Insurance contributions.

The 104 week linking rule has also been abolished by separate regulations

 

Please bear with me as I am getting some help with understanding this and the typing as I cannot cope alone.. These I promise though are my words ..

 

It says that time spent in the support group do not count... You are right !! But as I am now disallowed can they be made to count ? Is there an example of this happening before ?

 

I cannot thank you enough for this as it genuinely has given me a lifeline !!

 

I just need to get the facts absolutely right before I ring again as I feel like making a complaint about being told twice that I will get no more help..

 

Thank You !!

 

This is what you want - don't bother explaining it to the person on the enquiry line, ask for a call back from a decision maker - if they don't understand, ask to speak to their manager.

[Charlie996]

Once again I have phoned and again told that I have had my 365 days

 

I read from the sheet kindly linked to me by estellyn...

 

The 365 day time-limit

does not include any time spent in the Support Group or the time spent in the

assessment phase if they moved from the assessment phase into the Support

Group at the start of their claim.

 

Again the person on the phone said that I have had my 365 days........................... So I am now awaiting a call from the benefits centre ......

 

I am absolutely terrified !! I worry that by standing up to them that they will get back at me in some way !!

 

Other than the statements above is there ant other links or information that I can offer them when they call ??

 

Thanks !!

[Charlie996]

Right,, I have had the call from the Manager.....

 

Same result ! I read out the part above..

 

The 365 day time-limit

does not include any time spent in the Support Group or the time spent in the

assessment phase if they moved from the assessment phase into the Support

Group at the start of their claim.

 

He maintains that I will get NO further payments until an appeal is heard and if of course I win....

 

I cannot understand how such a document can say one thing but it means nothing !!!

[abc123def]

If you go into a CAB they will intervene on your behalf. Agencies listen to them.

[estellyn]

If you go into a CAB they will intervene on your behalf. Agencies listen to them.

 

Yes with the dWP staff being so obtuse about this, you need some muscle behind you.

[Charlie996]

Thank You for the replies.

 

The fact is is that I just cant cope any more.. Making just the phone calls to these people fills me with dread and I am so upset since the call. Upset that is as someone who is ill in the way I am has a very bad day after just a call like today's one.

 

I phoned my Consultant today and broke down in tears as I tried to explain what is going on.. He was furious and is going to write on my behalf in an effort to get this ridiculous decision overturned..

 

I have to go into hospital today as they consider I am at risk due to the pressure I am under at this time. This is not just about this thing with the DWP though I have other issues ........ This is not helping though >

 

Again these are my words but typed by someone else..

 

I really am genuinely grateful for the help you have given me !!

[Nystagmite]

If this was me, I would send them a letter with the documentation / link explaining the rules.

[Charlie996]

If this was me, I would send them a letter with the documentation / link explaining the rules.

 

They say that even though it says in the link that time in the Support group does not count the rules say I cannot and will not be paid !!

 

I had a letter today asking for more proof of how things are and to send anything I have in to help them with their decision as to whether to overturn the original decision.....

I am getting some help not only with the posting here but with composing letters to DWP so when I get the letter from the Consultant over the weekend or on Monday I will send it all in together ..

 

I do not have the strength to argue any more and the stress is just unbearable so I will have to concede.. It really is making me ill.... Sorry..

[Nystagmite]

I am sorry to hear this. I may have missed this; but do you have someone to help you fight this?

[Charlie996]

Back no as I was in the hospital for the night .....

 

No I am alone with my Wife and the advice I get here......

 

I cannot face talking to someone from the CAB as I just cant cope. Other thing is is that one of our neighbours works at the CAB and I just cannot discuss this with him as I am so embarrassed. I know this may sound ridiculous but that is how it is and is the truth.

 

I have to phone the Consultant on Monday to arrange to go in to see him so will see what happens then...

 

This is not the cause of my illness but hell it is not helping !!

 

DWP simply refuse to accept that the 365 days is not counted if the time is spent in the support group. Simple as and end of....

 

Thanks you all so much again..

[estellyn]

Back no as I was in the hospital for the night .....

 

No I am alone with my Wife and the advice I get here......

 

I cannot face talking to someone from the CAB as I just cant cope. Other thing is is that one of our neighbours works at the CAB and I just cannot discuss this with him as I am so embarrassed. I know this may sound ridiculous but that is how it is and is the truth.

 

I have to phone the Consultant on Monday to arrange to go in to see him so will see what happens then...

 

This is not the cause of my illness but hell it is not helping !!

 

DWP simply refuse to accept that the 365 days is not counted if the time is spent in the support group. Simple as and end of....

 

Thanks you all so much again..

 

Can you write a letter rather than talking to someone? Write a letter asking for a reconsideration of their decision not to pay you benefit while appealling. Explain that you were told that support group days counted towards the 365 day limit and that you have received advice that they don't - even on the dWP website it says they don't. This way you wouldn't have to speak to someone - just send a letter off and see what happens.

[Charlie996]

Can you write a letter rather than talking to someone? Write a letter asking for a reconsideration of their decision not to pay you benefit while appealling. Explain that you were told that support group days counted towards the 365 day limit and that you have received advice that they don't - even on the dWP website it says they don't. This way you wouldn't have to speak to someone - just send a letter off and see what happens.

 

I can try.... It is difficult getting my point across . This is why my wife helps with the typing and the forming of words on this forum..

 

Finding the words to put into a letter is hard as I cannot seem to force the point across. I was a builder so word writing is very hard and both myself and my wife are exhausted now...

 

I asked the Manager I spoke to last time to please put it in writing that the time in the support group did count but that request was refused point blank..

 

When I was in the hospital yesterday evening they told me to stop worrying but that is easy to say and very hard to do..

 

Thanks.

[Nystagmite]

I asked the Manager I spoke to last time to please put it in writing that the time in the support group did count but that request was refused point blank..

 

Why was it refused? Asking for something in writing isn't unreasonable.

[Charlie996]

Why was it refused? Asking for something in writing isn't unreasonable.

 

The Manager on the phone refused to accept what I was saying. I simply read out the following from the linked document above

IE.

The 365 day time-limit

does not include any time spent in the Support Group or the time spent in the

assessment phase if they moved from the assessment phase into the Support

Group at the start of their claim.

 

He said that whist it does say what it says the facts are that I have exhausted the 365 day allowance..

 

Several times I asked why the document says what it says and yet he refuses to accept it insisting that I would definitely be getting no further assistance unless I win an appeal and get put back into the support group.

 

When I asked for his name I was given only a Christian name and a letter stating in writing the exact position was refused as he said this is/was never done.

 

Honestly by this time I could cope no longer so had to give up..

 

Unless I can find an example case of this happening before then I feel I cant ask again.. I am just tired and exhausted now and am struggling to hold things together..

 

Thanks.

[estellyn]

hopefully this will help you, it is a letter you can copy and just insert the dates, name, and national insurance number where indictated (and obviously address where you normally would on a letter). Send it recorded delivery. At least they will have to give a response in writing and it saves you more hassle with phone calls. It might take a while for them to respond - just give them a call in say 3 weeks to check that they received the letter.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

RE: ESA, NINO (insert national insurance number)

 

I am writing to request a reconsideration of the decision dated (insert date) that I have exhausted my 365 day time limit on contribution based ESA.

 

I dispute this based on the following facts:

 

No days spent in the support group, or in the assessment phase directly prior to being allocated to the support group count towards the 365 day time limit.

 

I initially claimed ESA on (insert date), and was on the assessment phase until I was allocated to the support group on (insert date). I then stayed in the support group until my my most recent WCA decision on (insert date).

 

I have never spent any time in the WRAG group which does count towards the 365 day time limit.

 

Therefore I have not used up any of my 365 day time limit until the day of my most recent WCA decision, and should be paid ESA at assessment rate while appealling my WCA decision.

 

I have had several difficult conversations with DWP staff about this, who do not appear to understand the legislation as it applies to this matter. the phone calls have caused me much distress. I would appreciate that this matter be dealt with as a matter of urgency.

 

Regards

 

(insert name)

[Charlie996]

hopefully this will help you, it is a letter you can copy and just insert the dates, name, and national insurance number where indictated (and obviously address where you normally would on a letter). Send it recorded delivery. At least they will have to give a response in writing and it saves you more hassle with phone calls. It might take a while for them to respond - just give them a call in say 3 weeks to check that they received the letter.

 

Thank You very much for taking the time to do the above !!

 

I'm not sure I have the dates of when I actually went onto the ESA benefit so may have to miss that out but they will have all the dates anyway...

 

I must admit taking them on is scaring the wits out of me.. The whole thing has been like a bad dream !!

 

I have to go back to the hospital on Monday morning at 9.0 to see the Consultant as to be honest I have been in a bad way over this weekend. I really am struggling at this time and am having bad thoughts. There is only so much a person can take...

 

Im hoping / expecting that my Consultant who is very supportive will write a letter to the decision makers that will be deciding whether or not to overturn the recent decision.

 

Honestly challenging them again is something I don't think I can cope with...

 

The kindness and support you have given me over the last few weeks has made a real difference.. Talking to you all with the help of my wife has helped me keep my feet on the ground...

 

Thanks..

[worried33]

This seems a clear case for a MP to step in.

 

MPs may have views but generally they should help when a public body is clearly not abiding by the law.

 

Contacting your MP should be way less stressful than CAB as CAB's are limited opening hours and often overloaded with people asking for help meaning standing in large queues etc.

[Charlie996]

This seems a clear case for a MP to step in.

 

MPs may have views but generally they should help when a public body is clearly not abiding by the law.

 

Contacting your MP should be way less stressful than CAB as CAB's are limited opening hours and often overloaded with people asking for help meaning standing in large queues etc.

 

Sorry I really am.... But I cant cope with MPs or going to the likes of CAB ....

 

I can do 1 of two things here..

 

I can step back and try to get things together with my health which is in tatters at the moment.

 

Or

 

I can get in and take the DWP on...... I just cant cope. I feel really desperate now and truly am at my wits end.

 

My wife and I are going to send the letter estellyn so kindly wrote.. Other than that I cant do any more as my health is just not up to it.....

 

Thanks.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I fully understand about not being up to a battle, when I had problems with the DWP and others I wasn't either. Believe me, I think I've been where you are right now.

 

If you send in Estellyn's letter, I think that's a great move. Once you get a reply, you can come back and talk to us a bit more. Just give yourself time, there's no huge rush.

 

My best, HB

[**Margaret**]

:Charlie996:

None of us cope with Atos/Jobcentreplus 24/7. Can't be done! Eighteen months ago I was at the end of my tether with Atos/Jobcentreplus in general and their call centre roundabout in particular.

I'm echoing everything :honeybee13:'s said. Post the letter that :estellyn:'s kindly helped you with, accept whatever help your consultant can offer, then give yourself and your wife a break.

Best wishes to you both, Margaret.

[bluetoffees]

I disagree eith estellyn. I was in support group for 6 months but had to switch to income based when I passed the 365 day for contributions based. I was awating an appeal for 13 months and lost it. I will make a fresh claim for esa when the DWP finally get round to notifying me that my benefit has stopped, even though they have already stopped by payments.