Council Tax Benefit How many are aware of this?

[drop47]

I still don't get it. How can someone on 71 per week be expected to pay towards council tax as well

[Nystagmite]

That's what I don't get. Income based benefits are the minimum the law says you need to live on, without housing and council tax costs on top.

[dpick]

I still don't get it. How can someone on 71 per week be expected to pay towards council tax as well

 

Because our lords and masters do not give a **** if we live or die just the same as the poor bloody infantry in the war we/they are expendable.

 

dpick

[Kevin Bolt]

I think you will find it will be worse than many people think.

 

Yes the money available for CTB is being reduced by 10%, but the crucial thing is that pensioners are protected from the cuts in this instance.

 

So if a local authority decides that the way forward is to spread the cuts on working age claimants then the percentage cuts for these claimants is dependant upon the number of pensioners in the area that receive CTB. Now not all pensioners will receive CTB, but a good proxy measurement is the number that receive Pension Credit.

 

This results in large cuts in areas with a lot of pensioner claimants. It has been estimated that in areas such as Craven & Richmondshire in North Yorkshire that the cuts may be in the region of 30% - 40%.

[frank_begbie]

You'll be better off in jail the way things are going.

[osdset]

You'll be better off in jail the way things are going.

Ain't that a fact

[Nystagmite]

Well, if you're in jail, you wouldn't have to worry about paying rent and struggling to pay the bills out of your benefits...

[osdset]

You could always ask for the comfy cell, you know the one they stick the OAP's in that have been banged up for not paying the fine they received for not having a TV licence, it's a bit more civilised but still has all the security to prevent the escape of these very dangerous offenders.

[drop47]

I have read my local council website but the consultation has finished. However it does say that the change in law was still being debated. Is this right?

[estellyn]

Thought this was a good blog post on the issue:

 

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/09/30/tory-tax-on-the-poor-coming-to-a-council-near-you/

[worried33]

Incapacity benefit is more than IS. (which you would be on if you were sick prior to October 2008 and hadn't paid enough NI)

 

they both the same.

before ESA introduced if you was ill but hadnt paid enough NI you would be put on IS but it was the same rate as IB.

 

Like ESA contribution and income based are also the same as each other.

[estellyn]

they both the same.

before ESA introduced if you was ill but hadnt paid enough NI you would be put on IS but it was the same rate as IB.

 

Like ESA contribution and income based are also the same as each other.

 

Actually the basic long term rate of incap was higher than IS (just), and if you got one of the two age additions was even higher.

[worried33]

Actually the basic long term rate of incap was higher than IS (just), and if you got one of the two age additions was even higher.

 

I remember for a short time there was about 30p difference. I never seen difference of any note.

 

Fair enough if the age additions werent on the IS version. But the basic lower and upper rates were very similiar.

[estellyn]

I remember for a short time there was about 30p difference. I never seen difference of any note.

 

Fair enough if the age additions werent on the IS version. But the basic lower and upper rates were very similiar.

 

Long-term Incapacity Benefit

99.15

Short-term Incapacity Benefit (under state pension age)

lower rate

74.80

higher rate

88.55

Short-term Incapacity Benefit (over state pension age)

lower rate

95.15

higher rate

99.15

Increase of Long-term Incapacity Benefit for age

higher rate

11.70

lower rate

5.90

 

 

The age additions used to be more but have been gradually reduced, but added to the long term rate do make a difference.

[Nystagmite]

But the basic lower and upper rates were very similiar.

 

They weren't. If you were on IS, you'd just get basic IS unless you receive DLA. In which case, you'll receive disability premiums. After 52 (?) weeks you'd get a disability premium.

[estellyn]

They weren't. If you were on IS, you'd just get basic IS unless you receive DLA. In which case, you'll receive disability premiums. After 52 (?) weeks you'd get a disability premium.

 

That's right, plus of course on Incap, there are age additions - higher if under 35, and lower if 35-45 (at the start of claim).

[worried33]

They weren't. If you were on IS, you'd just get basic IS unless you receive DLA. In which case, you'll receive disability premiums. After 52 (?) weeks you'd get a disability premium.

 

fairly sure wasnt the case and estellyn only posted IB figures not IS figures so nothing proven there.

 

What about now with income based ESA over £100 a week, and if you also on DLA income at £150+ a week whilst still getting full council tax and housing benefit.

 

Thats a problem for sure, for one person £105 a week is excessive for another £150 a week isnt.

 

here

 

"A disability premium (currently paid at £30.35 for a single person and £43.25 for a couple) can be added if:"

"•You've been incapable of work (under Incapacity Benefit rules) for more than one year, and continue to be incapable of work, and you claimed Income Support before October 27 2008. "

 

So basically even on the IS version it got bumped up after a year same as IB. The difference been tho that IS gives you full council tax and housing help, automatic free prescriptions without needing to ask for a HC2 and without age additions IS beats IB.

[Nystagmite]

But you're comparing two different situations.

[worried33]

But you're comparing two different situations.

 

Not really.

 

I qualify for income based benefit but was given contribution based. Because of that I get less financial help.

[dpick]

 

What about now with income based ESA over £100 a week, and if you also on DLA income at £150+ a week whilst still getting full council tax and housing benefit.

 

Thats a problem for sure, for one person £105 a week is excessive for another £150 a week isnt.

 

here

 

"A disability premium (currently paid at £30.35 for a single person and £43.25 for a couple) can be added if:"

"•You've been incapable of work (under Incapacity Benefit rules) for more than one year, and continue to be incapable of work, and you claimed Income Support before October 27 2008. "

 

As someone in receipt of DLA mobility and care I find that I have to pay extra for a car or taxies and for having people come in and do thing that as an able bodied person I could do myself. That is what the extra money is for.

 

dpick

[Nystagmite]

Not really.

 

I qualify for income based benefit but was given contribution based. Because of that I get less financial help.

 

How are they the same? You've compared a disabled person on DLA and ESA with someone just on ESA.

[worried33]

As someone in receipt of DLA mobility and care I find that I have to pay extra for a car or taxies and for having people come in and do thing that as an able bodied person I could do myself. That is what the extra money is for.

 

dpick

 

I also pay for taxis.

 

Yet I got turned down for DLA and the system is less sympathetic to IB/ESA than it is to DLA.

 

I simply think its wrong for one to not be counted as income and the other to be counted.

 

Someone on ESA income based SG and DLA HRM would be on much more income than me and get full council tax help.

[Nystagmite]

But the DLA is for extra costs due to disability and not everyday living costs.

[worried33]

How are they the same? You've compared a disabled person on DLA and ESA with someone just on ESA.

 

Income support vs IB is around the same but one counts as excesive income and the other doesnt.

 

Same with contribution ESA vs income based ESA.

 

I had contribution based because I have a work history and right up until I claimed I was working full time, however as I had no savings and still have no savings and no other income I also qualified for income based. The housing benefit and council tax benefit calculations are unfair on this.

[worried33]

But the DLA is for extra costs due to disability and not everyday living costs.

 

I have those extra costs.

 

What you dont understand is ESA/IB is higher than JSA as that also covers extra costs associated with illness, but it doesnt get the same treatment in terms of been counted as income.

 

Help with housing and council tax should be based on financial income and savings nothing else.

 

You dont find it odd you have 3k savings, a higher income and dont pay council tax yet I do?

 

I am not interested in the DLA debate on this tho its more about the contribution vs income benefits.