WRAG and the new proposals

[osdset]

The government plan for the sick and disabled to lose 70% of their benefit support if they fail to comply with mandated work-related activities, this equates to £71 per week- hang on! I recognise this figure, the good old assessment rate.

 

So let me get this right, if a claimant fails to comply with work related activity they get to keep the work related component and lose the non work related component, and this makes sense?

 

The government now considers that, as a claimant has either passed the WCA or won a place on WRAG via appeal, that they are unfit for paid employment but fit for unpaid employment.

 

What happens at the next WCA? The claimant is told that as they managed to successfully complete periods of work related activity they are obviously fit for work?

 

OK I'll appeal, feel free but from next year we are bringing in mandatory revision before appeal, so you won't get any benefits while waiting for your appeal, unless you want to claim JSA in which case you're fit for work.

[down'n'out]

The government plan for the sick and disabled to lose 70% of their benefit support if they fail to comply with mandated work-related activities, this equates to £71 per week- hang on! I recognise this figure, the good old assessment rate.

 

Their logic is more likely to be that when JSA claimants are sanctioned they lose all their benefit which is approx £71, so those on ESA WRAG can lose the same when sanctioned.

 

So let me get this right, if a claimant fails to comply with work related activity they get to keep the work related component and lose the non work related component, and this makes sense?

Wait until they bring in universal credit, they will take a % of all benefit when sanctioned.

 

The government now considers that, as a claimant has either passed the WCA or won a place on WRAG via appeal, that they are unfit for paid employment but fit for unpaid employment.

That is what they are trying to push forward. They will push it forward as trying to get the long term sick into a routine ready for work.

 

What happens at the next WCA? The claimant is told that as they managed to successfully complete periods of work related activity they are obviously fit for work?

Yep, either lose your benefit through sanctions for missing mandated work, or lose your benefit due to being well enough to attend mandated work.

 

OK I'll appeal, feel free but from next year we are bringing in mandatory revision before appeal, so you won't get any benefits while waiting for your appeal, unless you want to claim JSA in which case you're fit for work.

It will be the only way they can cut down on appeals made. That is what they want, and they will get it by any means apart from making the WCA fit for purpose.

[debt4get]

what a crock of cr*p this govt is...once they have finished with the wrag group, they have already hinted they are looking at extending this to the support group...

[count orlok]

The Tory party are considering changing their name to the National Socialist British Workers' Party. They claim it is in order to appeal to British socialists and workers, but I suspect there are more sinister reasons behind it. Arbeit macht frei!

 

 

EDIT

 

Besides BUF is a naff sounding name for a political party, plus it's already been used

Edited September 9, 2012 by count orlok

[Nystagmite]

So, what happens if you're put in WRAG, sent on this work placement and your GP writes a fit note saying you can't work?

[count orlok]

The same as what happens when your GP and specialists say you can't wok and ATOS says you can.

 

Don't know how its going to fit in with Health and Safety at Work and employers insurance though; disabled people having accidents at work or even heart attacks. Perhaps when Joe public has to work alongside "these people" they may wake up to what is going on. They've managed to keep the protests out of the news so far but people will find out when they go too far (hopefully).

[osdset]

The Tory party are considering changing their name to the National Socialist British Workers' Party

NSBWP which is quite similar to NSDAP ( Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei)

[SWLABR9]

This accounts for the name change, Incapacity Benefit (which recognises incapacity) to Employment Support Allowance (which simply airbrushes the whole concept of incapacity conveniently out of existence).

[osdset]

Don't know how its going to fit in with Health and Safety at Work and employers insurance though; disabled people having accidents at work or even heart attacks. Perhaps when Joe public has to work alongside "these people" they may wake up to what is going on. They've managed to keep the protests out of the news so far but people will find out when they go too far (hopefully).

Which might just be the thing that scuppers the plan, 'participants' would have to be placed in work situations that could not ever endanger their or anyone else s well being, or employers will refuse referrals due to insurance implications.

 

If the proposals go ahead regardless, I would expect the no win no fee lawyers to be rubbing their collective hands together at the prospect of a huge influx of personal injury claims from WRAG participants that have injured themselves after being asked to complete inappropriate tasks, these proposals are also possibly in breach of the Equality act.

[down'n'out]

So, what happens if you're put in WRAG, sent on this work placement and your GP writes a fit note saying you can't work?

 

I am only guessing,..

As the WRAG is now, you are expected to perform "work related activity" to receive Benefit. If they are able to change the meaning of "work related activity" to include actually working, then if you do not do the work, you are not fulfilling what is needed to receive the benefit. Or, maybe they will just take the GP out of the equation, and if you feel too ill to partake, you will have to see an "Health care professional" to see if the right boxes get ticked to allow you time off.

[down'n'out]

Don't know how its going to fit in with Health and Safety at Work and employers insurance though;

 

The government will probably just throw a few hundred million per year at a private insurance company to insure those on WRAG.

[SWLABR9]

I was under the impression that no-win, no-fee lawyers weren't allowed to practice that any more in this country. Am I wrong, can someone tell me?

[down'n'out]

I was under the impression that no-win, no-fee lawyers weren't allowed to practice that any more in this country. Am I wrong, can someone tell me?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12890256

[SWLABR9]

"If they are able to change the meaning of "work related activity" to include actually working, then if you do not do the work, you are not fulfilling what is needed to receive the benefit."

If that happened they'd have to reassess everyone in the WRAG first wouldn't they? It would no longer be the same group.

[debt4get]

you have to read between the lines, esa is employment and support allowance, the wording tells it all.....employment, whilst giving support...they have already decided that everyone, and that includes everyone should work, even if it is for their benefits...the wrag group is simply the first in the queue...

they were never put into this group in order to access this benefit, it was always going to be a short term measure...remember 'no-one should be left on benefits for years and years' this includes all esa claimants, as soon as they have 'cracked' the wrag group, then rest assured they will move onto the support group, even that group now is given a 'time limited support' part of the allowance....be afraid guys be very afraid

[osdset]

What needs to happen is a shift of focus, a more general education for the working population of the country something along the lines of

 

'Consider whether the NI contributions you are currently paying from your hard earned salary, is in fact an insurance for the future, or a cash cow for successive governments to plunder, the reality of the situation is, if you fall ill or out of work the perceived support net will disappear from under your feet, and you will be subjected to an ever decreasing income level culminating in probable destitution. So in the light of that, are you going to petition government to radically reduce your weekly/monthly contributions?'

 

I think if 'Joe Public' was made fully aware of the implications for him and his family, the government might well have a revolt on their hands.

[down'n'out]

"If they are able to change the meaning of "work related activity" to include actually working, then if you do not do the work, you are not fulfilling what is needed to receive the benefit."

If that happened they'd have to reassess everyone in the WRAG first wouldn't they? It would no longer be the same group.

 

It would still be the same group, they would just be adding to what "work related activity" actually is. They already put forward it can be anything "reasonable in circumstances", they just push it forward that it is reasonable to get WRAG ready for work by sending them to work, err, "work training".

[down'n'out]

'Consider whether the NI contributions you are currently paying from your hard earned salary, is in fact an insurance for the future,...............

 

They are starting the "automatic enrolment into workplace pensions" from next month. That will be the first stage of the removal of state pensions.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/newsroom/press-releases/2012/sep-2012/dwp097-12.shtml

I wonder which bankers will be investing the money from that [into their bonus schemes]

[vicky87]

This may sound awful, but I seriously cannot wait until they force a few people with say...schizophrenia...into a public service job and they have an 'episode'. Pretty sure the work providers would live to regret taking the easy option of free workers then.

 

The government plans are just simply barbaric to me. And I seriously hope this bites them on the arse, and I suspect it might.

[Nystagmite]

As awful as that sounded, Vicky, I agree with you. Maybe that would also show that these people can not work.

[osdset]

I reckon it will only be those without obvious serious health issues that will get placed, how many business will be willing to pay out for special needs even if the labour is free? The providers will simply park the difficult cases, it's all very well for the government to assume that WP providers will place WRAG claimants, but the reality of the task might prove to be somewhat difficult.

[Nystagmite]

And how many would be willing to take on someone who can't do full time, needs a lot of time off, etc?

[debt4get]

And how many would be willing to take on someone who can't do full time, needs a lot of time off, etc?

unfortunately it won't matter, if someone is off ill, they will simply stop their benefit for 'not participating in W2W' doctors notes will be not be taken any notice of, and they will replace the one 'slave' with another ad infinitum..until we 'learn through tough love' that we either get a job or endure this farce....

I read that someone saying we ought to inform the working public that their NI contributions will leave them with no safety net....the wider population on the whole don't care, they have readily fallen for the lie that we are all benefit scroungers and unless it affects them it is a case of 'I'm all right jack' and the rest of you can get one of the non-existent jobs..of which there are plenty!!!they havent even realised that they are already paying in for a pension via NI and have been conned that they have to save extra for their pension each month by entering a new scheme!! some paid by employer and some paid by employee....the people of this country seem to half asleep to the damage this govt is causing, and dont think they will wake up until its too late

[estellyn]

The reality will be that no one can be forced to do something that Atos has assessed them as not being able to do - they cannot say you cannot do something on one hand, then expect you to do it. What I expect will happen is that work programme providers will get more detailed info on capabilities, and then will try to shoehorn some type of 'work experience' into the person's capabilities. I expect many appeals.

 

I actually have no issue with someone being asked to consider a little voluntary work if they are capable of doing it. But I don't believe it should be manadatory on WRAG, and I am very much against benefit claimants being made to do unpaid work for profit making companies.

 

I just hope that I'm well enough by next April (my next assessment date) to be able to do some part time freelance benefit work. I expect once the legal aid bill goes through there'll be a need for freelancers charging minimal fees, especially with all the changes going through and the need for people to have help and representation.

[estellyn]

The same as what happens when your GP and specialists say you can't wok and ATOS says you can.

 

Don't know how its going to fit in with Health and Safety at Work and employers insurance though; disabled people having accidents at work or even heart attacks. Perhaps when Joe public has to work alongside "these people" they may wake up to what is going on. They've managed to keep the protests out of the news so far but people will find out when they go too far (hopefully).

 

Aren't they bringing in that GP's can only sign people off for 4 weeks and then people have to be signed off by a DWP doc. I think they're piloting it at the moment.