Is the bank taking your Benefits ?

[TideTurner]

JunkiMunki,

 

Please see Class action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

 

This is an action brought by several people who have the same circumstances (the minimum is usually 20).

 

Tide

[Vital Spark]

Oh dear, and I have a sufficiently big bottom for them to bite.

 

I have not heard back from Lloyds since writing to inform them that much of the information (ALL of my recorded banking history with their institution), which I requested and for which I paid the statutory £10 back in No vember 2006, had not been produced by them.

[Vital Spark]

I love this which was sent to me by a friend. Just had to let you all see a copy:

 

This is brilliant-wouldn't you love to do this

 

A 98 year old woman wrote this to her bank. The bank manager thought it amusing enough to have it published in “The Times”.

Dear Sir,

 

I am writing to thank you for bouncing my cheque with which I endeavoured to pay my plumber last month. By my calculations, three 'nanoseconds' must have elapsed between his presenting the cheque and the arrival in my account of the funds needed to honour it.

 

I refer, of course, to the automatic monthly deposit of my Pension, an arrangement which, I admit, has been in place for only eight years. You are to be commended for seizing that brief window of opportunity, and also for debiting my account £30 by way of penalty for the inconvenience caused to your bank.

 

My thankfulness springs from the manner in which this incident has caused me to rethink my errant financial ways.

I noticed that whereas I personally attend to your telephone calls and letters, when I try to contact you, I am confronted by the impersonal, overcharging, pre-recorded, faceless entity which your bank has become. From now on, I, like you, choose only to deal with a flesh-and-blood person.

 

My mortgage and loan payments will, therefore and hereafter, no longer be automatic but will arrive at your bank by cheque addressed personally and confidentially to an employee at your bank whom you must nominate.

 

Be aware that it is an offence under the Postal Act for any other person to open such an envelope. Please find attached an Application Contact Status, which I require your chosen employee to complete. I am sorry it runs to eight pages, but in order that I know as much about him or her as your bank knows about me, there is no alternative.

 

Please note that all copies of his or her medical history must be countersigned by a Solicitor, and the mandatory details of his/ her financial situation (income, debts, assets and liabilities) must be accompanied by documented proof.

 

In due course, I will issue your employee with a PIN number which he/she must quote in dealings with me. I regret that it cannot be shorter than 28 digits but, again, I have modelled it on the number of button presses

required of me to access my account balance on your phone bank service.

As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

Let me level the playing field even further.

When you call me, press buttons as follows:

1-- To make an appointment to see me.

 

2-- To query a missing payment.

 

3-- To transfer the call to my living room in case I am there.

 

4-- To transfer the call to my bedroom in case I am sleeping.

5-- To transfer the call to my toilet in case I am attending to nature.

6-- To transfer the call to my mobile phone if I am not at home.

 

7-- To leave a message on my computer (a password to access my computer is required. A password will be communicated to you at a later date to the Authorized Contact.)

 

8-- To return to the main menu and to listen to options 1 through 8

 

9-- To make a general complaint or inquiry, the contact will then be put on hold, pending the attention of my automated answering service. While this may, on occasion, involve a lengthy wait, uplifting music will play for the duration of the call.

Regrettably, but again following your example, I must also levy an establishment fee to cover the setting up of this new arrangement.

 

May I wish you a happy, if ever so slightly less prosperous, New Year.

 

Your Humble Client

 

(Remember: This was written by a 98 year old woman; DOESN'T SHE MAKE YOU PROUD!!?)

 

[petcat]

this is superb, what a dear! Ive just settled for 80% but already regret it as part of my POC was the bit about benefits.The offer and acceptance were by email marked without prejudice. Is it too late to pursue on the benefits issue, I am short by almost 600pound still and never tried for CI as it was so complicated.Like the idea of a collective suit against them,in theory that sounds like a good route to take.

[ragger]

Could someone please help have received court date for the 28th of August. The account Iam claiming back charges for is used soley for benefits to be paid in. Have I left it to late to bring this to the attention of the courts or to use against the bank. Would be grateful for any advice

 

thanks Ragger

[jailbird]

Hi Tide,

 

You can also add me to the 20. My claim is from 2001-2001 and is all from benefits I should have received.

 

Let me know.......will support all the way.

 

JB

[Vital Spark]

Yes, I think it would be a good idea to take the blighters to court under criminal law for theft.

 

Think we need Jonchris. There's a woman (I am sure it is,) who appears to know her legal stuff.

 

Of course we have to find out if the same charges can be taken out against them in Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland or do we have to get 20 (or however many) people from each coun try and bring 4 separate charges?

 

Do we collectively approach the Police or do we take it to the European Court of Human Rights? How? How? How?

[JonCris]

ragger no.

 

Prepare a skeleton argument about the sanctity of benefits & spring it on them by fax the night before the hearing. Your argument should include a brief reference to that evidence you will be relying on in court

 

Make sure you have all of your aces in place, Statute, Secretary of State correspondence etc, all of which is available in this thread

[ragger]

Hi JonCris

Thanks for your reply would be grateful for help in wording a skeleton argument on the sanctity of benefits. I think I have the statutes that cover the benefits I receive namely Social Sercurity Admin Act Sect 187 and Tax Credits Act Sect 45. If you think I may have missed something I would be grateful for directions

Many Thanks Ragger

[JonCris]

ragger write your own then post it here.

 

Suggest start your argument with "I would ask the Court to consider the following etc:

[babybear39]

Had 3 DCAs, all debts are alleged and in dispute, telling me that they can and will take my DLA into account as income

 

Luckily, sought advice from national debtline and CCCS and they advised DLA CAN NOT be taken into account as income

 

Soz if this has been said before but only just found this thread...

[Vital Spark]

Vital Spark,

 

I understand that a number of class actions are in the pipeline (you need 20 people collectively for this), but can't remember where I read it.

 

Personally, I have an ongoing case, currently with the Court, and should it fail I will simply walk into a Police Station and make a formal complaint for theft against several members of the organisation I am in dispute with. I know the identity of these individuals and have a complete history of their actions (prior to all of this blowing up).

 

Take a breath, you need to be able to back up any claim you make, or it may come back and bite you on the backside.

 

Focus on getting back your charges and interest, and along the way gain as much information as possible.

 

Make notes of any phone callse you make - date, time, who you spoke to, what was said, and keep copies of all correspondence including statements.

 

I also keep news articles which show that the banks knew what they were doing is wrong but carried on regardless.

 

My God, if management don't know by now and haven't shown complete ignorance in the name of profit, they should have been removed from their position long ago.

 

Tide

What do you mean by a "class action"? I'm probably being El Thicko again, of course.

[Vital Spark]

Joncris, do you have any knowledge and advice you can give us on the possibility of having the banks charged for breaking the law regarding them taking benefits from our accounts to pay their charges?

[Vital Spark]

Had 3 DCAs, all debts are alleged and in dispute, telling me that they can and will take my DLA into account as income

 

Luckily, sought advice from national debtline and CCCS and they advised DLA CAN NOT be taken into account as income

 

Soz if this has been said before but only just found this thread...

Did the National Debtline make any comments on other benefit income?

 

What's the number for National Debtline?

[babybear39]

Hi Vital Spark ,

 

The only benefit that I'm currently on that's exempt is DLA. Don't know about others sorry...

 

Here's the site addresses for national debtline and CCCS :

National Debtline England & Wales | Contact National Debtline

CCCS - Contact Us

 

Hope this info helps

 

BB

[polonius]

Joncris, do you have any knowledge and advice you can give us on the possibility of having the banks charged for breaking the law regarding them taking benefits from our accounts to pay their charges?

 

I went into a police station last week. The police are not interested as it is, they claim, not a police matter. They said that if the bank manager had his fingers in the till, that would be a different matter. Following orders, even if that is legally debatable is not a police matter.

 

Personally I would argue that if the manager has taken money from your account for banking purposes, for the benefit of the bank, that is having your fingers in the till.

 

It seems then that civil authorities see it as a criminal matter, and criminal authorities as a civil matter. In other words, as a middle class problem, benefit claimers are just working class oiks and should be grateful that such proper people are ripping them off. How dare you expect the police to look at such a frivilous matter as theft from poor, trailer park trash, you ungrateful, feckless waster. Pay your bills like people with £1000 a week plus benefits do.

 

(Nothing has changed since Dickens really!)

Doug

[JonCris]

Had 3 DCAs, all debts are alleged and in dispute, telling me that they can and will take my DLA into account as income

 

Luckily, sought advice from national debtline and CCCS and they advised DLA CAN NOT be taken into account as income

 

Soz if this has been said before but only just found this thread...

 

Of course it can't although I doubt they knew it until you told them

 

The fact that the DCA's have claimed they CAN take your benefits is grounds to report them to TS & the OFT

[JonCris]

Hiya polonius. i relaly sympathise with you. Im going through the exactly same thing with the halifax.

 

I contacted them by letter twice then spoke to the customer relation manager thats apparently the highest person a member of the public is allowed to speak to???? so they say

 

So now i have contacted the ombudsman to try to get this money back. The main part they have taken is my daughters dla.

 

The customer relation manager told me if i want it back take them to court.

 

Good luck with your claim and keep us posted

 

karen

 

Karen may I suggest that you gather your evidence particularly that which confirms their action is unlawfull, Social Security Act 2002 + letters from the Secretary of Estate to the bankers representatives all of which are on this thread, & write together with that evidence to your local magistrates court & ask them to issue a summons on a charge of fraud based on the Fraud Act 2006 which states as follows & should be quoted when requesting the summons

 

The Fraud Act 2006 came into force on 15th April 2006

 

The act is small as it contains only 16 sections plus 3 schedules.

 

All Theft Act deception offences are abolished to be replaced by 3 new fraud offences: fraud by misrepresentation.......fraud by failing to disclose information and fraud by abuse of position.:o

 

Under section 1 a person is guilty of fraud if they are in breach of any offences in sections 2,3,4.

 

Under Section 2 representation must be made dishonestly which is established under the two-stage test as set out in Rv Gosh (1982) QB 1053, 75 Cr App R 154 in which the defendant was dishonest by the standards of ordinary people

 

Subsection (1) (b) requires that the representation is made with the intention of making a gain for himself or causing a loss or risk of loss to another. Loss and gain are defined in section 5 as being money or property

 

This section is very wide ranging & could criminalise a lie. e.g; if the bank refused a loan whilst suggesting a reason that was not true then that could be an offence as the victim would have suffered a loss or gain based on the lie of the defendant. Furthermore there is no need to show that the victim was even aware of the lie for there to have been a crime committed. The victimless crime. This could also be applied to the unlawful seizing of benefits

 

Merely an email setting out the true reasons for refusal even though not sent would constitute the crime. It would not matter to whom, if anyone the representation was addressed nor the eventual effect, if any.

 

Fraud by failing to disclose information

 

Section 3 provides that where a person dishonestly fails to disclose to another information which he is under a legal duty to disclose, & intends to make a gain or cause a loss or the risk of a loss an offence has been committed.

 

Fraud by abuse of position

 

Section 4 makes it an offence for a person who occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not act against the financial interest of another person, to abuse that position dishonestly and intend, by means of the abuse, to make gain or cause a loss or risk of a loss to another. This creates a very broad offence which may catch the banks.

[steven4064]

JonChris

 

You talk about a letter from the Secretary of State to the bankers' representatives - do you have a referenec or link?

 

Secondly, there was a lot of discussion about the possible use of the Theft Act/Fraud Act on this thread

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site

[dizzy bat]

I have only just found this thread. How dare the banks steal benefit money leaving the recipient with virutally nothing:mad: . This is actually happening to me right now. My bank closed my account earlier in the year ( WITHOUT giving me the 30 days notice they should have done) . I owed them a fair bit of money and they sold me debt on ...........but my child tax credit still goes into this closed account just to pay a firm of debt collectors, I only pay them £10.50 a week and they have been writing to me asking for more, but they are not getting a penny more from me.

 

I would really like to know how payments can still go into an account that is offically closed?????

[babybear39]

Hi dizzy bat , you could always get the child tax credit paid into another account and re-negotiate using income and expenditure...

[lynski3053]

Have you set another bank account up? If so I would call the tax credits and change your bank account details to have any future payments paid into there. I would then contact the bank who is taking your benefits and arrange a separate payment plan with them to pay them back. Alternatively copy and paste the letter at the start of this thread and send that into the bank.

[dizzy bat]

Hi dizzy bat , you could always get the child tax credit paid into another account and re-negotiate using income and expenditure...

 

 

Yes I am in the process of beginning to get my child tax credit paid into another account at the minute. I am also about to go into an IVA and have been advised not to pay any of my creditors a penny until that is up and running.

[lynski3053]

Hi

 

I am helping my sister to reclaim her charges back and am just about to send the LBA. However all the credits at the time going into her account were Benefits mainly Income Support, tax credits and family allowance. Do you think I should add something into this letter to explain about taking benefits? If so how do you think I should word it. Any help much appriciated Thanks

[steven4064]

Hi lynski

 

IN your LBA youprobably have a paragraph with a list of legislation - UTCCR 1999, etc

 

Add to the list:

 

Social Security Administration Act 1996 section 189 if she is claiming income support, job seekers, invalidity benefit, etc

 

Tax Credits Act 2006 section 45 if she is claiming working tax credit or child tax credit

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site