Arrow Global/Brian Carter court proceedings - need help!***Discontinued***

[DCAtarget]

Thanks mate, I paid for the tamper proof one off this site last night so I am all sorted. Personally do you think it wise that I send the CPR18 and 31.14 separately to prove I sent two different letters or will they be ok sent together in same envelope. Sending special delivery of course.

[citizenB]

Thanks mate, I paid for the tamper proof one off this site last night so I am all sorted. Personally do you think it wise that I send the CPR18 and 31.14 separately to prove I sent two different letters or will they be ok sent together in same envelope. Sending special delivery of course.

 

 

Excellent

 

Hmm, yes now that is a question..

 

Why not just put a covering letter in with both CPRs.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ALL THE COURT REFERENCES ETC..

 

Please find enclosed

 

CPR31.14

CPR18

 

I look forward to your early responses.

 

Etc, etc,

 

 

That way you only need pay one Special/recorded Delivery postal fee

 

IMHO, I would if at all possible pay for the special delivery postage as you are guaranteed a signature.

[cerberusalert]

Is there a six year period where you never made a payment?

[dx100uk]

yes good question

 

how old IS this account.?

 

it must be old if its been defaulted and the default has dropped off already.

 

dx

[DCAtarget]

Is there a six year period where you never made a payment?

 

Sadly not mate.

[DCAtarget]

Why not just put a covering letter in with both CPRs.

Good idea Citizen B - I'll do that, thanks.

[DCAtarget]

Hi,

 

Got back from my first holiday in years yesterday and found a reply from Brian Carter which is as follows:

 

To paraphrase they say they say that as it was issued in Northampton practice direction 7C point 1.4 (3A) eliminates the requirement to attach documents to particulars of claim. Further to this they say that as it will likely be small claims Part 31 of the CPR will not apply.

 

They confirmed that nevertheless they have requested documents from their client although not within 7 days. Their client have confirmed that they will agree to an extension of time for filing my defence to 14 days after documents are provided to me.

 

Their closing paragraph reads.... "It was the policy of the original creditor. Visa Classic credit card, to issue agreements on or around the date of contract, statements throughout the duration of the agreement, and notices of default and termination at the relevant times. The Claimant beleives a notice of assignment was sent to you in or around the time of assignment, and you were referred to your own records for such documentation."

 

What are my next steps? Do I need to contact the court to confirm they've agreed an extension?

 

With respect to the other parts of their letter, where do I stand? Is this a fairly standard response?

 

I SAR'd both Moorcroft and Natwest but as they have 40 days nothing through door as yet.

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer me.

[citizenB]

Yes, you must write to the Court Manager and enclose a copy of the letter that confirms an extension of time.

 

I have popped a draft for you below. Can you please check the address against your court claim to make sure it is being sent to the correct address. Enclose a copy of Bryan Carter's response - I would highlight the bit where he says that they will give a further 14 days from date of RECEIPT by you, of the documents. Send a copy of the letter below to BC.

 

 

 

 

 

Her Majesty’s Court Service

County Court Bulk Centre

Northampton County Court

St Katherine’s House

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

FAO: The Court Manager

Dear Sir or Madam

Re:

Case No:

Claimant’s ref:

NOTIFICATION OF EXTENSION OF FILING DATE – CPR15.5

I have been in contact with the Claimant's solicitors in respect of documents requested under CPR31.14.

It would appear they have now been requested from the Claimant but these will take some time to arrive .

It has been agreed that due to the fact they are unable to provide these documents, vital to my defence, in time for the original filing date of XXXX, that an extension in accordance with CPR15.5 will be appropriate.

As you can see from the attached letter from XXXXXX they have confirmed that once they have supplied the documents to me, I will be permitted a further 14 days in which to submit my defence.

I trust this is acceptable.

Yours faithfully

Enclosed : copy letter from BC - solicitor to claimant XYZ

[citizenB]

Their closing paragraph reads.... "It was the policy of the original creditor. Visa Classic credit card, to issue agreements on or around the date of contract, statements throughout the duration of the agreement, and notices of default and termination at the relevant times. The Claimant beleives a notice of assignment was sent to you in or around the time of assignment, and you were referred to your own records for such documentation."

 

 

 

If the claimant did indeed send this information - there will be a record of it at the very least on their communications log. So yes, pretty standard response.

[DCAtarget]

Thanks again Citizen B. You have been a massive help to me with all this, I appreciate it.

 

I'll get that letter posted today and send BC a copy. Guess then I play the waiting game. Is it a good idea to check claim status with court if I don't hear anything from BC?

I'll keep posting with any developments in the meantime.

Edited September 4, 2012 by DCAtarget

[DCAtarget]

Hi,

 

Just had a quick look at other threads by people "in the same club" as me but can't find anyone else who has been offered an extension of 14 days after receiving documents. Others have had no reply, offered a general extension of 14/28 days.

 

Say Bryan Carters send documents - would I need to contact the Court and let them know I've received them so that the 14 days could start or would the onus be on Bryan Carter to let them know? Also, should they not send documents what would happen then - would the case just stay as "pending" indefinitely?

 

Also, I sent the letter CitizenB kindly drafted for me (recorded delivery) which was received by the court yesterday. Is is a good idea to follow up with a phone call just to make sure all is ok or is this overkill?

 

Thanks.

[citizenB]

It is likely that in this instance they will send the documents by recorded post so there is a record.

 

If they dont, then I suspect the onus is on you to be honest about the day of receipt you might even be advised to acknowledge receipt so the count down can start.

 

I am not sure what happens if they dont send the documents. Their response to you earlier was quite clear, they will give you 14 days from receipt. In which case it is likely the case could either be stayed indefinitely or you personally could probably ask for a strike out on the basis that they dont have this information.

 

You really would need to take advice from andyorch, Mike_Hawke or other caggers with legal backgrounds/experience.

[Mike_hawk]

Hi,

 

Just had a quick look at other threads by people "in the same club" as me but can't find anyone else who has been offered an extension of 14 days after receiving documents. Others have had no reply, offered a general extension of 14/28 days.

 

Say Bryan Carters send documents - would I need to contact the Court and let them know I've received them so that the 14 days could start or would the onus be on Bryan Carter to let them know? Also, should they not send documents what would happen then - would the case just stay as "pending" indefinitely?

 

Also, I sent the letter CitizenB kindly drafted for me (recorded delivery) which was received by the court yesterday. Is is a good idea to follow up with a phone call just to make sure all is ok or is this overkill?

 

Thanks.

 

Hi DCA

 

The rule is for an extension of 28 days maximum by agreement of the parties, ie; defence to be filed 56 days post aos, in your case now 42

 

Parties can't agree to extend the period of defence to a future unknown service date of documents + 14 days as this could be an indefinite period.

 

I don't believe BC would intentionally abuse the rule and file for default or sj absent defence after agreeing to an extension, there is I suppose estoppel in effect

 

From reading the threads on here it does appear to either end up stayed and/or bounced back to the claimant to act or appoint counsel. CPR 15.11 applies to cases absent defence. Copied below for reference

 

Claim stayed if it is not defended or admitted

 

15.11

 

(1) Where –

(a) at least 6 months have expired since the end of the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4;

 

(b) no defendant has served or filed an admission or filed a defence or counterclaim; and

 

© the claimant has not entered or applied for judgment under Part 12 (default judgment), or Part 24 (summary judgment),

 

the claim shall be stayed(GL).

 

(2) Where a claim is stayed(GL) under this rule any party may apply for the stay to be lifted.

 

 

 

Not sure why it agreed 14 with you and anything from 0 to 28 with others, could just be that its treated as a production line and it wants to retain a balanced case load during holiday season.

 

It may be sensible to chase again [if no disclosure] a few days prior to the 42 day deadline and see if it wants to agree a further 14 day ext.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Mike_hawk

[DCAtarget]

Thanks for your post Mike_Hawk. I thought it sounded a bit vague with there not being a specific date mentioned.

 

For reference I thought I'd add a copy of the letter received.

Response to CRP 18 & 31.pdf

Edited September 8, 2012 by DCAtarget

[Mike_hawk]

I think it's a fairly standard response from BC, there are a few others dotted around the forum with similar.

 

I'd be inclined to keep an eye on the date for filing defence, if nothing received by say 7 days prior to extended filing date [that's 28 days max by agreement] chase for disclosure.

 

If no response and still no docs it would seem sensible to file a defence on time based on the known, ie, poorly plead statement of case, unable to understand the cause or quantum of claimants case, claimant in default of request for disclosure, relief to amend defence if claimant deigns to disclose in the future etc etc.

 

There's a fair few defences on here that you could adjust to suit your own individual circumstances. Take some time to read a few other cases and you'll get an idea of possible defence positions.

 

Hi DCAt

 

Just read my post again and it didn't make much sense, that's what happens when posting and BBQing at the same time I guess :-)Amended a couple of lines above so it should appear a tad more logical.

 

Do you ever have days when something made perfect sense only to realise your fingers overtook your brain when typing!

 

Change this from the previous post:

 

'The rule is for an extension of 28 days maximum by agreement of the parties, ie; defence to be filed 56 days post aos, in your case now 42'

 

to this........

 

'The rule is for an extension of 28 days maximum by agreement of the parties, ie; defence to be filed 56 days post service, in your case now 42 post aos period'

Edited September 9, 2012 by Mike_hawk

[Mike_hawk]

Hi DCAt

 

Is the POC at post #1 verbatim? Was there no mention of assignment or does it just refer to an agreement with the claimant?

 

Visa Classic [bC response] really doesn't identify an original creditor, if I search online now I can find the brand Visa Classic offered by Cap 1, Barclays, HSBC, RBS to name but a few.

 

If no disclosure don't get drawn into making a case for them by referring to any possible known creditor in defence.

[DCAtarget]

Hi Mike_hawk,

The POC was word for word. Only account number mentioned and just refers to an "agreement".

 

I have worked out it's for an old Natwest account and have SAR'd them as suggested in a previous post although not had anything back as yet. BC haven't mentioned the OC in any communication with me to date and I haven't referenced them either.

 

Thank you for your help with this, appreciate it.

[Mike_hawk]

I wouldn't be inclined to help them with that information If I understood your earlier posts regarding service correctly; issue date 13.08 deemed service 18.08 your last possible extended day of filing defence would be 12th October [13th being a Saturday and assuming no disclosure in the meantime]

 

You should have ample time to consider your possible defences. Assuming they can't provide documentation in time you can only defend on the known elements. 'If' they can sort themselves out with documentation do you have any indication of the 'true' balance at default with Natwest, and whether any post default notices have ever been sent regarding app of interest or charges?

[DCAtarget]

I wouldn't be inclined to help them with that information If I understood your earlier posts regarding service correctly; issue date 13.08 deemed service 18.08 your last possible extended day of filing defence would be 12th October [13th being a Saturday and assuming no disclosure in the meantime]

 

Deadline for defence was 15th Sept, however their letter extended deadline to 14 days after documents received. I now know (thanks to you ) that they can't offer such a deadline although I did send letter in post #33 to the court. Would they automatically take that as being a straight 14 days? Think I might call the court tomorrow to double check, I definitely don't want BC to get what I am guessing they want (a default judgement).

 

I don't have any indication of defaulted balance as the alleged debt no longer appears on my credit reference. I am guessing this will be sent by Natwest as part of my SAR though (received by them on 21st Aug).

I asked BC for this info as part of my CPR Part 18 request too.

 

Ps How did your BBQ go yesterday? It was pretty good weather everywhere I think so guessing it went well on that front.

[Mike_hawk]

Deadline for defence is effectively now variable depending on the other sides response, ie; disclosure tomorrow, file defence by 24th Sept, disclosure 17th, file defence by 1st october... and so on up to last extended filing date available of 12th October.

 

Check with the court that they've interpreted in the same way.

 

My opinion of the standard BC response is to catch out the unwary and file for default absent any defence.

 

Imagine a scenario where the defendant is not procedure savvy, receives a response as yours, decides that having not received any disclosures does not need to enter a defence. The likelihood is that [whether intentional or not] a default judgment would be filed, whilst I imagine there would be cause to set aside its not really an ideal argument to have.

 

BC and his ilk do not spend too much of their resources on concerning themselves with cause or evidence, for them its just a cost defined system for managing cases.

 

As for Natwest, they aren't [by most accounts] doing too well with SAR responses at the mo. If you need any info urgently and time is pressing give me a nudge and I'll sort out a few contact numbers for you.

 

BBQ......... way too much lager, and wine, and cider and whatever else it was I drank........ paying for it today though

Edited September 9, 2012 by Mike_hawk

[citizenB]

Do you ever have days when something made perfect sense only to realise your fingers overtook your brain when typing!

 

Always

[DCAtarget]

I phoned the court today to check their interpretation of the letter I received from BC allowing extra time for filing defence. The lady who answered the call however stated that they were behind in their workload and there was nothing about the extension on her screen. I did send this letter to the court by recorded delivery which was received by them on (according to Royal Mail tracking) 5th Sept.

 

She said that if I didn't submit a defence by 28 days after 18th August (15th Sept by my reckoning) there would be nothing to stop them filing for a default judgement.

 

Can you please advise me of the best way forward? Should I submit a defence this week???

 

Thanks.

Edited September 11, 2012 by DCAtarget

[AndyOrch]

I would DCAtarget just to be on the safe side.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[DCAtarget]

Thanks Andy,

 

In your opinion would the following defence found on another thread be a good one to use in this case?

 

Without any of the documents I have asked for and which they will rely on I can't properly defend myself, they haven't even named the original creditor (rather just stated Visa Classic card).

 

 

 

• I, ********** of ************** make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by **************
  

• The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system
  

• No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite a request to the claimant for further information none has been forth coming and as a result I cannot plead in defence to the claim
  

• Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit, the defendant asks to be allowed to submit a fully particularised defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents he will rely upon.
  

• Further to that above 4 paragraphs, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.
  

[DCAtarget]

In addition to my last post would it also be a good idea in your opinion to chase BC now (in writing) for documents in light of submitting defence?

 

Many thanks.