court baliffs forced entry threat URGENT

[BarmyRockChick]

Hi there all,

Slightly long background story so appologies in advance!

 

My son who is now 19 got a fixed penalty notice last year when he got drunk and fell asleep on some steps whilst visiting some mates who were at Uni up there.

 

On return home he confessed all and gave me the paperwork which unfortunatly didn't include details of how to pay that bit was missing.

I chased it up and tried to have it sent on but it never arrived then no-one could find any details of him on their systems!

It's been a total nightmare and I run a pub so I'm plenty busy enough!

 

Everytime (my son) has had a letter from the DCA he's tried to follow it up and sort it out but nothing has been finalised.

 

Today late morning there's a knock at the door,

some bloke from this Marstons lot says he wants £420 on the spot or he's coming back with a lock smith and the old bill to force entry to take goods.

 

Well I explain that son is at work, it's my pub in my name so I really wouldn't appreciate him marching through it heavy handed

and that if he gives me some time to sort it out and I will.

 

However is not up for negotiating or part payment or making a payment plan he wants it all and he wants it today.

 

I've done my research and want time for son to contact the court and fill out the paperwork needed for a financial assessment

so he can be given a realistic time scale to pay

 

however I'm not getting that done in the deadline I've been given as I've no idea who I need to call to find out about this paperwork!

 

I'm concerned that he's going to force entry into my pub and cause damage that I'll have to put right,

I don't want a bunch of strangers in my flat especially as I can already tell them that son has bugger all!

 

I have a sneaky suspicion he's blagging me a bit though, originally he said that the lock smith and police were booked to return at 3pm now suddenly he's saying he'll wait until 6pm.

 

Do you guys think he'll actually make good on his threat to enter the property that way?

Can he do that to a business that isn't linked to the person who owes the money?

How do I get this bloke to sod off and give me time to sort it properly?

 

I'll be open at 6pm so I really don't need him tramping through the pub, although as landlady I do have the right to chuck him out!

 

I think he's intentionally coming back once we're open to ensure he can just walk in,

he tried this morning to gain entry by asking if he could "just look around" to save time later but I wouldn't let him.

If he really was going to pop the door surely he'd of turned up mob handed earlier on?

 

Anyway, any help and advice would be much appreciated guys!

Jo

[hallowitch]

go to a solicitor and get a statutory DEC done to protect your goods usual cost is £5 but it might cost you more if the some of the goods (table chairs optics etc are not yours depending on what kind of tenancy /free house )

 

the paperwork the bailiff left ( should have left ) should have the name of the court that issued the warrant

 

photo copy it and send to Marstons

 

Ps the bailiffs not stupid he will know your son has no financial connection to the pub he is hoping you will make a voluntary payment to protect your property

[brassnecked]

As you have told him and it must be obvious to the scrote that the debtor is not actually connected with the business he has no right to take goods,

he is trying to force you to assume the debt imho.

 

tell him when he returns you are getting a Statutory declaration as to ownership of goods on the premises,

and it would be in his best interests to let your son sort it with him personally,

as none of the goods are his.

 

Any attempt or removal of goods for what is a third party as in not your debt will be regarded as theft,

and the police will be asked to remove the trespasser, or thief as he would be if he siezed goods when he is asked to leave.

 

Check out oldbills posts but a complaint to OFT about marston's credit fitness, and MOJ may be in order.

[hallowitch]

he might not need a financial assessment if the warrants not in his home address (if he gave his mates address) then the warrant Will be in that address which means he would not have received a further steps notice from the court

 

the further steps notice is a legal requirement it gives the debtor 14 days to pay the fine before it goes to the bailiffs

[BarmyRockChick]

Thanks guys that's proper reassuring, he was making mild threats such as "you wouldn't want us turning up when your open in front of your customers"

I told him I didn't care as it was still my choice if he came in as it's my pub not Bradley's and he has to go through MY pub and up MY stairs and through MY flat to get to Brad's room.

 

If he does end up having right of entry I will not allow him to look anywhere apart from Brad's room all doors will be closed

and I told him I would be happier if he brings the police as they can ensure he sticks to the rules properly!

 

The guy was a total menance, he really was,

I've text him and told him that son doesn't have the full amount and wants to set up payment options,

he replied saying he couldn't make payment plans that it has to be the full amount today or he siezes goods (now at 6pm not 3pm)

 

I then text back (so it's all in writing) and said that CAB had advised that son should contact the court and get paperwork for a financial review

which would then need to be handed in in person and the court would then take that into account and arrange for son to make payments to them.

 

Told him I needed time to arrange it and he has now replied claiming that is false info and that CAB always give wrong info as they aren't up to date

with "distress law" that he has a warrant blah blah he then goes on to give son until tomorrow "want to work with you not against you" and "will do my best to hold off any further action"

 

What's everybody's feel on this guy?

Also how do I get hold of the court?

 

I really need to sort it with them as that would put a mockers on him being able to do anything else at all

 

I'm not happy about him hanging around my pub or threatening to break into it,

surely he's not allowed to do so since he would in effect be trespassing as it's not MY debt?

 

son isn't trying to deny responsibility for this he's tried sorting it we both have but we couldn't,

if only I can speak to the right person at the courts I'm sure I can get this put on hold.

 

Jo

[hallowitch]

txt him and ask him what address is on the warrant and at what court it was issued

 

3 PM 6 PM now its tomorrow LOL he is backtracking coz he knows he is on sticky ground

 

don't let him into your sons room he has no legal right to this you are not the debtor its your home

[ploddertom]

Seeing as he is so keen on the finer points of distress just remind him that he may have a Warrant of Distress that allows him to seize the goods of the Debtor

anywhere within England or Wales, it is solely the Debtors goods and not those of a 3rd Party.

 

He may well retort that he entitled to seizr goods if he believes they are his but he is just getting himself into fairy story land.

 

He may well come into the pub but that gives himno right to enter your living accomodation as that is a separate entrance even if in the same building.

 

Therefore if he kicks off you within your rights to bar him and exclude him from your property the same as any other person who causes a nuisance.

[BarmyRockChick]

Seeing as he is so keen on the finer points of distress just remind him that he may have a Warrant of Distress that allows him to seize the goods of the Debtor anywhere within England or Wales, it is solely the Debtors goods and not those of a 3rd Party. He may well retort that he entitled to seizr goods if he believes they are his but he is just getting himself into fairy story land. He may well come into the pub but that gives himno right to enter your living accomodation as that is a separate entrance even if in the same building. Therefore if he kicks off you within your rights to bar him and exclude him from your property the same as any other person who causes a nuisance.

 

Cor I'd enjoy baring him lol (in the style of Peggy Mitchelle)!

Interesting how he's suddenly backing off I've asked for the warrant details but he won't tell me what they are. It would solve a lot if he would! Seems to me he doesn't want me contacting the court so it appears I should!

[sgtbush]

there will be a warrant of distress issued, what is the address on the warrant tho,

if its the same as the pub then he can enter and do a search for him, or any assests of his.

your assets and the assests owened by the pub company are safe and cannot be siezed or levied, as are any of your assets.

 

i hope you have recipts or bank statements handy to prove this,

if not you have to contact the courts and make a stat dec to safe gaurd your possesions,

 

if the courts have been sendind letters to the pub address has he been hiding/ignoring the letters.

marstons will have writtenn to him aswell,

 

try to get your son to be truthful with you so you know all the facts in case the bailiff re-attends

i would get in touch with the courts asap

[hallowitch]

Seems to me he doesn't want me contacting the court so it appears I should

 

thats because if the address on the warrant is not yours it means he may be able to go down the statutory dec route because he didn't receive the further steps notice if accepted it no beer money for him

 

get your son to text him and ask where he can view the warrant

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/60/part/52/made

 

The Criminal Procedure Rules 2010

 

PART 52 ENFORCEMENT OF FINES

 

 

(5) A person executing a warrant of distress shall

 

(a)either

 

(i)if he has the warrant with him, show it to the person against whom the distress is levied, or

 

(ii)otherwise, state where the warrant is and what arrangements may be made to allow the person against whom distress is levied to inspect it;

[BarmyRockChick]

That's very interesting I'm definitely going to be asking to check the warrant especially as he certainly didn't have it today and had to resort to trying to blag his way in! I've just had another text again giving extra time apparently 6pm tomorrow is the new deadline!

I've responded explaining that £420 can't suddenly appear I also tried a blag of my own out of interest told him I'd spoken to a very helpful lady at the courts and she was sending brad some forms regarding a financial hearing and that the court would see what he could pay & when (I'd looked all this up and knew how it worked) be interesting to hear his reply....

[old bill]

Also remember that as the licensee of licensed premises, you have a duty, in law, to keep an orderly house. If the scrote kicks off, you have a duty to order him out or have him removed for Disorderly Conduct on Licensed Premises (Licensing Act). The other thing that comes to mind is that is the scrote willing to risk having a pub full of regulars beat the crap out of him?

[RaeUK]

... I'd enjoy baring him ...

 

Please ensure you only use the minimum amount of force necessary to evict him. Whatever that may be ...

[brassnecked]

There is something unsettling here, as in Marstons, are constantly contacting by text and mobile telephone the parent, who as son was 19 at the time he had the FPN has no responsibility for the bahaviour in public, or his debts. The texts could count as harassment under S1 protection From Harassment Act 1997. An avenue to explore with a Formal Complaint once this is sorted, so keep all the texts sent by the bailiff imho to use later if you decide you write to the MOJ, and send a complaint to OFT regarding Marston'f fitness to hold a Category F debt collection licence.

[old bill]

There is something unsettling here, as in Marstons, are constantly contacting by text and mobile telephone the parent, who as son was 19 at the time he had the FPN has no responsibility for the bahaviour in public, or his debts. The texts could count as harassment under S1 protection From Harassment Act 1997. An avenue to explore with a Formal Complaint once this is sorted, so keep all the texts sent by the bailiff imho to use later if you decide you write to the MOJ, and send a complaint to OFT regarding Marston'f fitness to hold a Category F debt collection licence.

 

As well as Section 2, Protection from Harassment Act 1997, BN, you can also throw Section 1, Malicious Communications Act 1988 (Sending Communications Containing Threats) and Section 127, Communications Act 2003 (Misuse of A Public Electronic Communications Network) at the scrote. Another thing that has just dawned on me is Section 4A, Public order Act 1986 (Causing Intentional Alarm, Distress or Harassment) which can be used to deal with the scrote if he kicks off in the pub or its precincts.It can also be used, to very good effect, to deal with workplace bullying.

[BarmyRockChick]

Hi guys,

Mr Monday from Marstons is constantly calling and texting, basically he's saying that if we haven't got full payment a distress warrant will be used to gain entry to the pub and goods removed to cover it and costs added on for doing that too!Brad doesn't own anything of value but obviously we do, if it does come to this then does anyone know my rights in respect of where their allowed to go and what they can take? I don't want them in our daughter's room (she's 9) our bedroom or living room or my office. Can anyone who knows or has been there tell me how this goes down? I'm currently waiting to speak to the enforcement department as none of the paperwork apart from a letter from Marstons has ever been sent here.

 

Phew this has really put a mockers on my day!

 

Jo

[Surfer01]

Also a complete breakdown of the £420 woudl be appreciated as surely the FPN would only have been about £60?

[brassnecked]

Hi guys,

Mr Monday from Marstons is constantly calling and texting, basically he's saying that if we haven't got full payment a distress warrant will be used to gain entry to the pub and goods removed to cover it and costs added on for doing that too!Brad doesn't own anything of value but obviously we do, if it does come to this then does anyone know my rights in respect of where their allowed to go and what they can take? I don't want them in our daughter's room (she's 9) our bedroom or living room or my office. Can anyone who knows or has been there tell me how this goes down? I'm currently waiting to speak to the enforcement department as none of the paperwork apart from a letter from Marstons has ever been sent here.

 

Phew this has really put a mockers on my day!

 

Jo

Please dbit out the scr.... oops bailiffs name.

 

You need to swear that stat dec, asap, and send to the court and marstons, write to them explaining that your son occupies one room, and has nothing of value, but that as YOU personally are not the debtor, you cannot accept or pay for a third party debt, as it is unlawful to threaten removal of your goods for this debt, and the continuos texts are being saved to use to ground a claim of Harassment contrary to section 1 of the Protection From Harrasment Act 1997,

marstons Bailiff cannot use this defence

 

(3)Subsection (1) does not apply to a course of conduct if the person who pursued it shows—

(a)that it was pursued for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime,

(b)that it was pursued under any enactment or rule of law or to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by any person under any enactment, or

©that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable.

 

As you are not the debtor, so it should be your son he is contacting not you.

 

Complain to tne issuing court and your MP imho. If you were to try demand a breakdown they would most likely refuse under Data Protection as you are not the debtor.

 

Others will know much more, but I think they are trying to get mummy to pay, which is illegal.

[BarmyRockChick]

your definately right, he's already suggested that Brad borrow the money from someone to pay up which is totally immoral! The lady at the enforcement office was really helpful, she said (off the record) that I should email proof of Brad's lack of funds to Marstons asap and that way there's a good chance that they'll give it up as a poor show and pass it back to the enforcement office in which case he'll only owe the £120 fine and their charges will be dropped.

Also she said that it's very very rare for them to actually enter the property and take belongings especially when it's obvious that the actual debtor won't have anything worth taking! I'm annoyed because I've got tons to do today but have only been working on this constantly lol!

 

Well the nasty man can wait 10 minutes while I sort out the scans and email them also the enforcement lady said make a complaint and send a copy to their office too as they will chase it up during their regular meetings with Marstons

 

Jo

[brassnecked]

your definately right, he's already suggested that Brad borrow the money from someone to pay up which is totally immoral! The lady at the enforcement office was really helpful, she said (off the record) that I should email proof of Brad's lack of funds to Marstons asap and that way there's a good chance that they'll give it up as a poor show and pass it back to the enforcement office in which case he'll only owe the £120 fine and their charges will be dropped.

Also she said that it's very very rare for them to actually enter the property and take belongings especially when it's obvious that the actual debtor won't have anything worth taking! I'm annoyed because I've got tons to do today but have only been working on this constantly lol!

 

Well the nasty man can wait 10 minutes while I sort out the scans and email them also the enforcement lady said make a complaint and send a copy to their office too as they will chase it up during their regular meetings with Marstons

 

Jo

 

I think they have twigged that you know they are committing a criminal act, and can't now rely on trying to get mummy to pay, you need to pursue this with Formal Complaints once the matter is settled. I would submit the harassment evidence to trading Standards the OFT under Credit Fitness, and the MOJ, as well as letting plod know there are rogue bailiffs on their patch.

[BarmyRockChick]

Email sent! Will text nasty man with what I've done and why and that I will not be responding to anything else until I get a reply to the email, to be on the safe side I will be locking the door that leads to our upstairs and keeping the key in my pocket.

 

Don't reckon that he should attempt getting ****ty when I'm open though, we're in a village and our regulars are not keen on strangers throwing their weight around......!

[brassnecked]

Email sent! Will text nasty man with what I've done and why and that I will not be responding to anything else until I get a reply to the email, to be on the safe side I will be locking the door that leads to our upstairs and keeping the key in my pocket.

 

Don't reckon that he should attempt getting ****ty when I'm open though, we're in a village and our regulars are not keen on strangers throwing their weight around......!

Whilst he is in the pub if he cracks off he can be asked to leave and must do so, and if you call them the police must assist a licencee to remove an undesirable who is causing a disruption on licenced premises. Get one of your regulars or you film him even with a mobile phone if he starts spouting threats and lies regarding taking your property for someone else's debt. It is immaterial the debtor is a family member, it isn't your debt so he can't touch your property.

[Surfer01]

Please dbit out the scr.... oops bailiffs name.

 

 

Complain to tne issuing court and your MP imho. If you were to try demand a breakdown they would most likely refuse under Data Protection as you are not the debtor.

Well bailiff considers OP to be debtor so cannot refuse Data Protection casue then they will be admitting that they got the wrong person! LOL!

[brassnecked]

Well bailiff considers OP to be debtor so cannot refuse Data Protection casue then they will be admitting that they got the wrong person! LOL!

Agreed Surfer01, but they will refuse when they realise the hole they just dug for themselves,.

[BarmyRockChick]

Well had a bulshy text back saying he's turning up tonight with removals clearly not impressed with my email and info will continue to stick to the can't pay and wait to hear back from Marstons by email.

Still concerned about him trooping into the pub we're away at darts tonight leaving staff in charge

Jo