Suspended from work pending investigation

[Emmzzi]

I don't think it is in any way cut and dried.

 

good luck. We will be cheering you on and here for you after whatever happens! Me, I'm thinking it'll be a celebratory cider.

[Emmzzi]

Just popped by to wish you good luck!

[markl1987]

Thank you, have been up since god knows when going over everything and trying to get ready

 

I'll be back to update early this afternoon, thank you everyone

[altobelli]

Best of luck to you for today, hope all goes well.

[markl1987]

Thank you, am absolutely bricking it right now

[assisted blonde]

Good luck

[honeybee13]

Fingers crossed. You'll be great.

 

HB x

[markl1987]

Thanks again, the rep is again just telling me now that it's most likely to be dismissal. He says he can't argue or fight my case for me unless I can tell him where tickets are. He says everything I've got written down and in my notes isn't going to help because of the irregularity involving cash regulations

 

He's almost advising me not to fight it!

[honeybee13]

Don't let him tell you that, it's ridiculous. Does he understand the job?

 

HB

[markl1987]

He just keeps referring to it breaching the cash handling regulations if there is and irregularity and there isnt really much of a way to prove I'm not responsible for it

 

I'm clutching at every straw possible and don't feel like anything will work

 

Gonna get in my corner and ready to fight now

[altobelli]

Keep your chin up.

 

Remember, they need to show that they can reasonably assume that you were responsible. Just because it could have been you isn't enough. You're doing absolutely the right thing, go to the meeting and show them that you're well prepared and be ready to fight your case. I'm sorry the rep isn't being as supportive as he could be, but I think you have a good case.

[markl1987]

On an adjournment now, really not looking good at all

 

Going back soon to carry on the meeting and will let you all know soon, the rep has been really good at pulling apart the allegation of theft but we're really struggling with giving any proof that I'm not responsible for the tickets being missing which accounts for an accounting irregularity which is gross misconduct

 

My rep said and I also think that the decision has been made already and it's just a process we are going through

[assisted blonde]

Dont give up yet its not over till the fat lasy sings !!!

[markl1987]

All over and I've been dismissed.

 

The charge was totally upheld and nothing that I put in was taken into account at all.

 

The hearing manager said regardless of all the reasons I could give he still believes that I was solely responsible for the missing non issued tickets and he believes I gained financially from them so the theft etc all still stands

 

He then went on to say how I need to return uniform etc a d offered a taxi home, I've just got on the next train after politely refusing

 

Absolutely gutted!

Edited September 18, 2012 by markl1987
type-o

[markl1987]

Having never been in this situation I dont really know what to write in the appeal letter, is it just all my grounds for defence?

[altobelli]

Hi markl1987, so sorry to hear the outcome, I can't imagine how you must be feeling just now.

 

Can you take some legal advice and also advice from the union rep. Can you escalate this with the union?

 

You had a good case in your defence and it doesn't sound as if your story has been properly taken into account. Given the seriousness of the allegations, it isn't good enough for the employer to argue that you could have done it, they have no evidence whatsoever that you benefitted financially. Try and get as much information as you can prior to the appeal, find out exactly what they investigated, how they addressed the points you made in your defence, and how they reached the decision.

 

You spoke to the Transport Police earlier, is it worth speaking with them again?

 

For tonight, maybe try and relax with family/mates if at all possible. You haven't lost the battle yet, so start to think about how you'll prepare your appeal.

[wander27]

Sorry to hear that mark! Sounds like they had made their mind up long ago and didn't really want to listen to anything you said.

 

If you are guilty of theft and gaining financially like they say then isn't this is a criminal offence? If they had the proof to prove this allegation then why wasn't the police called? If the police took over this investigation and started to investigate you on the grounds of theft then I am pretty sure they would throw it out of the window. You need to be asking what their policy is on reporting such a theft?

 

It really is horrible how these company's get away with destroying people's lives and really effect their health and well being. I have an inkling I will be going through the same process as you pretty much and to be honest I've pretty much accepted it, but am I going to give up? Am I heck!!! Like others have said...this isn't the end, but once it has sunk it, you will become very angry. You need to channel this anger into all your evidence and appeal hearing, then maybe possibly the tribunal. Don't give up! You have to take it as far as you can now.....

[markl1987]

They said its not the companies in the companies prerogative to involve the police in this matter. They said that by suspending me then completing the investigation was enough for them. I told them I had informed the police myself and they didn't show any interest.

 

I think they refused to look at it from a criminal law point of view because they cannot prove anything that way but on the balance of probability they had enough to go with dismissal

 

Literally everything I brought up in relation to case they dismissed almost immediately and the over all conversation was I am ultimately for the tickets that were missing regardless of all the other angles and opportunities for them to have gone missing and the companies own flaws

 

Im very angry already, feel like exploding and almost crying at the same time. Had a couple of the guys from work call me already and they are furious about it and threatening to start some kind of petition so least I know I have the backing of my colleagues

[wander27]

I am ultimately for the tickets that were missing regardless of all the other angles and opportunities for them to have gone missing and the companies own flaws

 

 

 

 

Was you aware of this? Is it in the job description or contract? Did you have any training on what to do if they did go missing?

[markl1987]

Im aware that I am responsible for all my actions and ensuring I stick to the rule book when working but wasn't aware that I would be held accountable for these being missing. I've never had any training in what to do if they go missing. If I was being argumentative I could say I've never actually been trained to complete non issues and just picked it up when I started working.

 

They really wearnt interested in anything I had to say and I don't know where to start with my appeal, if they didn't pay attention to everything I brought up in the hearing today will they pay attention at the appeal hearing?

[Emmzzi]

The appeal will be heard by a different more senior manager. So maybe. The question is what do you have to lose? I'd say not much.

[markl1987]

Yehh definitely going to do the appeal despite the union rep who was there to 'help' me advising me that an appeal wont work in my favour.

 

I've done a draft letter but starting to stress myself out big time so leaving it where it is for now and finish it tomorrow then get it sent off when Im done

 

I really expected them to actually listen to me and take into account everything I said but it was all just ignored, the meeting went on for almost 3 hours and they just beat down everything I raised, Back to the drawing board for an appeal . . .

[assisted blonde]

Union Reps are not always the best can you speak to an employment lawyer the union one if possible, I really thought that you would be ok and it would be good news today, compared with so many cases you really seemed to have a good one, I am so sorry.

[altobelli]

Also in your appeal flag those points which you raised in your defence and which were not addressed, and state that this causes you concern. For any grievance hearing to be fair, it must at least consider the points you make in your account of events. If this isn't done, it suggests that the decision was made in advance of the the grievance meeting.

[firstclassx]

ALL railway companies are extremely notorious with dismissals being completely over the top, usually based on highly circumstantial evidence and/or false management statements and altered minutes from meetings etc. The "witness" that is supposed to be your union rep, will always back the company up, usually so they can earn a few brownie points for something later on, (pay deals, friend dismissals, getting people jobs etc), but primarily as a case of self-preservation.

 

The only fortunate point is that railway dismissals are usually quite rare and usually only for safety related issues, (unless you have a prior final warning etc).

 

No train company will EVER suspend anybody unless they fully intend to dismiss them. If they suspend someone and then have to allow them to return, the company loses face amongst the other staff and it has cost them financially.

 

The appeal will also be unsuccessful. They will not reinstate you, however, you must appeal (and lose) before you can go to a tribunal. Please do not try and convince yourself that you will win. A railway appeal should be designed as a last ditch effort to make them contradict themselves, seem unreasonable and demonstrate how poor their case really is- gather as much evidence as you can. Write absolutely everything down.

 

I have witnessed blatant corruption, dishonesty and nepotism within my own company when dealing with dismissals, but when it comes to hard proof, everything is "missing". The most shocking case I found was falsified minutes from an investigation, where it had been altered to admit guilt, and when they pointed this out, the company made out the employee was now backtracking and making wild accusations to hide their guilt. This became worse when the manager involved in the Disciplinary kept running out to the HR Director for advice, who told the manager that the employee must be dismissed regardless. The HR Director was later selected as the person chairing the appeal hearing, which, unsurprisingly, didn't go well.

 

If you have a wholly unblemished employment record, (no warnings, incidents, disciplinary etc), prior to this incident, I think you have a good chance at tribunal.

Edited September 18, 2012 by firstclassx