Benefit Sanctioned

[mark1trucker]

I don't think your sanction is reasonable, no. And I fully understand your frustration, I'm just asking you to find a different way to vent it.

 

JCP staff deal with the frustrating system every day, and are routinely insulted by claimants. If they come here and are insulted further when they're off the clock, they might get fed up and leave. This would be a serious loss to the CAG benefit forum.

 

As I said before please don't take it personal its not meant to be and I appologise if I have offended anyone but this really does hurt me along with the thousands of other people from disabled to able bodied people who have had their benefit unfairly sanctioned. I dare say if I was to ring head office and try to speak to the individual responsible they would be a faceless person in the background who I couldn't get to speak to which adds to the frustration. According to the Guardian newspaper a whistleblower said they had been set targets to initialy sannction one person a week but that wasn't enough so they made it 3. He also said they had a catchphrase constantly hammered in to them which is "Save the public purse" feel good about stopping someones money you have just saved your own pocket". Obviously I don't know the accuracy of this but there is no smoke without fire as they say.

[antone]

As I said before please don't take it personal its not meant to be and I appologise if I have offended anyone but this really does hurt me along with the thousands of other people from disabled to able bodied people who have had their benefit unfairly sanctioned. I dare say if I was to ring head office and try to speak to the individual responsible they would be a faceless person in the background who I couldn't get to speak to which adds to the frustration. According to the Guardian newspaper a whistleblower said they had been set targets to initialy sannction one person a week but that wasn't enough so they made it 3. He also said they had a catchphrase constantly hammered in to them which is "Save the public purse" feel good about stopping someones money you have just saved your own pocket". Obviously I don't know the accuracy of this but there is no smoke without fire as they say.

 

No problem, we just need to keep a civil tone here.

 

You are correct in that if you called the office where the DM works, you likely wouldn't be allowed to speak to him or her. As to the targets, well, I didn't work on JSA at all, so I can't speak about that from personal experience. Put it this way, the whistleblowers claims seem plausible to me, but I don't know if they're accurate or if this is simply a garbled account of something less sinister.

[mark1trucker]

No problem, we just need to keep a civil tone here.

 

You are correct in that if you called the office where the DM works, you likely wouldn't be allowed to speak to him or her. As to the targets, well, I didn't work on JSA at all, so I can't speak about that from personal experience. Put it this way, the whistleblowers claims seem plausible to me, but I don't know if they're accurate or if this is simply a garbled account of something less sinister.

 

Whatever goes on in the depths of the office out of sight of people like myself is anyones guess, but the end result is lots of people are having their benefits sanctioned unfairly and the numbers are supposedly on the increase.

[flumps1976]

I work for the customer service side of JCP and as already posted on here I post voluntarily.

At you New Claim Interview you would have been asked if you hold a validdriving license and if you are a car owner so it will be on the LMS system.

Your travel time is 90minutes by your normal method of transport not purely by public transport.

If at the time the vacancy was suitable and "matched" your job goals and retsrictions of days and hours etc then you would have been expected to apply for the vacancy as you wouldhave agrred to appky for the vacancy.

You have given your reasons and they have been submitted to the DMA, if you have any additionsl information to give you can request a reconsideration of the original decision and if you don't it will go straight to appeal.

The reason you can't speak to the person who actually makes the decision is because they have to make the decision purely based on the facts in black and white in front of them, they do not speak to the JCP staff about the decision either to ensure that they are not swayed away from the Decision Makers Guidance.

There is no set period of sanction if it is your first offence or 20th. the sanctions are set for periods between 2 and 26 weeks and the 1 week sanction is for the first falied to attend an appointment or sigining on the correct day and/or time.

[mark1trucker]

Firstly how can they justify a 3 month sanction for not applying for one job? Seems very excesive to me I just can't see how this level of punishment fits the crime. How could I be expected to travel 90 mins either way to job which may be minimum wage not in my case but could have been. I couldn't possibly afford to pay for fuel to do that, but none of this matters because once the advisor presses that print button ime expected to apply for that vacancy and they know it or we run the risk of sanctioned benefit. We have no control over this they just behave as though they are God controling our lives inflicting worry and stress upon us. I have been told several times today how helpfull JCP staff are well in my latest experience they have been anything but helpfull and caused me nothing more than grief and worry. Sorry but just don't get it how sanctioning my benefit for 3 months helps me or anyone else in the slightest way, I really can't see what explanation anyone can give me will convince me and dare say lots of other people in the same situation.

[Bang!]

If you watch over the next few days, things like this if they are a change in policy tend to filter in here - so if there is a sudden increase in the number of complaints on sanctions, you know its a policy change - and if not, then you were just unlucky.

 

It was pretty much the same in the CAB, when there was a sudden influx of clients with something new - then you knew what was behind it.

 

If its a policy change, it tends to make appeals less successful.

[mark1trucker]

If you watch over the next few days, things like this if they are a change in policy tend to filter in here - so if there is a sudden increase in the number of complaints on sanctions, you know its a policy change - and if not, then you were just unlucky.

 

It was pretty much the same in the CAB, when there was a sudden influx of clients with something new - then you knew what was behind it.

 

If its a policy change, it tends to make appeals less successful.

 

Ok thanks I will keep an eye on things,I have been doing some reading on Google and there is a lot in the Guardian newspaper about this and they say there are increasing numbers of people across the country going through this. If you just type into Google about sanctioned benefits there is lots of stuff there about it.

[mark1trucker]

The benefit of an appeal would be that it will be looked at by an independent tribunal, one that is not part of the DWP. Tribunals can often be more, well, lenient than DWP DMs. Also, before it goes to the tribunal it will be looked at by another DM to see if the decision can be changed in your favour without the need to escalate any further.

 

Thanks Antone, I just hope common sense prevails here don't get me wrong I will take my punishment same as the next bloke if its fair and justified but I just can't come to terms with this!

[Bang!]

Is it John Domokos who covered it (or something like that)? If so he tends to cover his articles in twitter too, so when he has something published you will get the link if you follow him.

 

His main interest seems to be video journalism, which is a shame as the present punitive benefit climate could do with more egalitarian articles rather than the current tory crap spewed by the red tops.

[mark1trucker]

Is it John Domokos who covered it (or something like that)? If so he tends to cover his articles in twitter too, so when he has something published you will get the link if you follow him.

 

His main interest seems to be video journalism, which is a shame as the present punitive benefit climate could do with more egalitarian articles rather than the current tory crap spewed by the red tops.

 

Yes he is the man who it says to contact and it is his article

[benidorm60]

Firstly how can they justify a 3 month sanction for not applying for one job? Seems very excesive to me I just can't see how this level of punishment fits the crime. How could I be expected to travel 90 mins either way to job which may be minimum wage not in my case but could have been. I couldn't possibly afford to pay for fuel to do that, but none of this matters because once the advisor presses that print button ime expected to apply for that vacancy and they know it or we run the risk of sanctioned benefit. We have no control over this they just behave as though they are God controling our lives inflicting worry and stress upon us. I have been told several times today how helpfull JCP staff are well in my latest experience they have been anything but helpfull and caused me nothing more than grief and worry. Sorry but just don't get it how sanctioning my benefit for 3 months helps me or anyone else in the slightest way, I really can't see what explanation anyone can give me will convince me and dare say lots of other people in the same situation.

 

Its not good that you have a sanction and you will suffer for three months. But I have recently started a job, have now gone to 37 hours, minimum wage and take two buses to get there and back, time it takes ninety five minutes each way. I am hoping to move soon to be nearer my job if I can get a house swap. Its not easy but I do it and I am no spring chicken

I was on benefits for many years as a carer, and was neither work shy or idle. I now pay tax but I dont hold a grudge to paying it, for many years I had to depend on benefits myself. I was promised a jobgrant by my advisor at the jobcentre when I started work didnt get but am over it now.

I was grateful for help and advice I got on here.

There are hardly any jobs out there, I am lucky I can claim WTC as I have children. Its not easy on benefits but its not easy working either, rent council tax now I have to pay in full. Good luck with your appeal but if you lose you will have to get over it, whats the point in making yourself ill as well.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

The job centre people just sit in their chairs like robots I guess controled by the Fat Controlers who don't really care what people have to do to find work as long as we are of their books and back out there earning to pay taxes to pay for the work shy who have no intention of working a day in the their livesQUOTE]

 

Everybody has to pay taxes out of their earnings including the JobCentre staff, who Knows how the goverment spend these taxes? but believe me I never think I am working to pay any bodies benefits, because that could be me one day and I say thank goodness there is a benefit system in place because who know what live can throw at you......

 

And do I think people take advanatage of it, then my answer is, thats not my problem is it

Edited June 4, 2012 by MIKEY DABODEE

[debt4get]

As I said before please don't take it personal its not meant to be and I appologise if I have offended anyone but this really does hurt me along with the thousands of other people from disabled to able bodied people who have had their benefit unfairly sanctioned. I dare say if I was to ring head office and try to speak to the individual responsible they would be a faceless person in the background who I couldn't get to speak to which adds to the frustration. According to the Guardian newspaper a whistleblower said they had been set targets to initialy sannction one person a week but that wasn't enough so they made it 3. He also said they had a catchphrase constantly hammered in to them which is "Save the public purse" feel good about stopping someones money you have just saved your own pocket". Obviously I don't know the accuracy of this but there is no smoke without fire as they say.

whilst this is not an attack on you personally..you have to realise now you are unemployed that even if you are bending over backwards to get yourself back in work, you have now joined the rank of the so-called workshy..who doesnt deserve benefit because they are not trying to find a job...we give them jobs to go for..and they dont even bother applying!! there probably is a minority who are maybe happy to live this way..but for the vast majority of unemployed i dont believe it for a minute..there is a lack of jobs simple as...you are just unfortunately now caught in the crossfire.the whole system is wrong...and where is the carrot? there is isnt one (unless you count the pittance you should get every week)..just simply a big stick to beat you down with......

[debt4get]

i know this is a bit tongue in cheek but with all the stress and worry could the poster get a fit note from doctor saying depressed and claim ESA for a period..or would that be like using the system?

[mark1trucker]

The job centre people just sit in their chairs like robots I guess controled by the Fat Controlers who don't really care what people have to do to find work as long as we are of their books and back out there earning to pay taxes to pay for the work shy who have no intention of working a day in the their livesQUOTE]

 

Everybody has to pay taxes out of their earnings including the JobCentre staff, who Knows how the goverment spend these taxes? but believe me I never think I am working to pay any bodies benefits, because that could be me one day and I say thank goodness there is a benefit system in place because who know what live can throw at you......

 

And do I think people take advanatage of it, then my answer is, thats not my problem is it

 

Ime also glad there is a benefit system in place but for people who use it correctly and don't abuse it!! I do feel we are tarred with the same brush as the hardcore in this country who refuse to work and get round the system,I didn't apply for just one job the only unsuitable job given me and what happens a 3 month sanction so I do feel like ime treated like them if they looked at what I actualy do to find work they may think differently. Sorry but I don't agree with you saying if people take advantage of the system its not your problem its everyones problem because if those people are not stopped from abusing the system the benefit system that one day you may rely on might not exist or won't be the system that is supposed to help us as it will be ruined by the selfish minority. I've paid into the system all my working life and this is the second time I've been unfortunate enough to have to rely on it so I think out of 33 years paying I think ime entitled to some help now and don't take kindly to having my help sanctioned when all said and done it is mine that's why we pay NI isn't it!!

[mark1trucker]

i know this is a bit tongue in cheek but with all the stress and worry could the poster get a fit note from doctor saying depressed and claim ESA for a period..or would that be like using the system?

 

Quite possibly but I won't use the system falsley its against my principles, much rather be out working doing a job I enjoy. And yes they have caused me a lot of unnesesary stress and worry, so many things in our lives are inflicted upon us by people who have never had to experience themselves!!

[debt4get]

the trouble that hardcore is truly a very small minority...but people have been brainwashed into believing that it isn't.....ever since this govt came into power its all we have heard....benefit cheat...lazy...workshy...and i could go on.....its surprising how many people they know anecdotely who have been abusing the system for years...yet did nothing about it...didnt pick up a phone..or write a letter....etc etc...and as to them misusing the system...you can believe the propoganda if you like..but you really need to look at it from a different perspective...and many of us including myself have paid NI for over 30 years..and believed govt spin that we were entitled...well this bloody shower has now changed the rules to suit themselves....so if you were one of the ones 'who believed' you gotta a bloody shock....i truly feel sorry for you..but dont believe for one minute that its a luxurious life on benefts cos it aint..its a daily bloody struggle to survive

[MIKEY DABODEE]

I work at the Jobcentre as a processer and pay many families whose benefits and DLA etc are well in of excess of 70k a year. So could this be concluded they are taking advantage of the benefit system who knows , I say its not my problem because it isnt. The goverment makes the rules for benefit not me. I dont know these people, what illness they have their children etc, I am in no position to judge, my job is to pay the correct benefit and amount due.

Do I stop and think about the amounts. yes of course, but we dont set the rates and applicable amounts the goverment does and

We dont make the rules we just have to adminster them.

[mark1trucker]

I work at the Jobcentre as a processer and pay many families whose benefits and DLA etc are well in of excess of 70k a year. So could this be concluded they are taking advantage of the benefit system who knows , I say its not my problem because it isnt. The goverment makes the rules for benefit not me. I dont know these people, what illness they have their children etc, I am in no position to judge, my job is to pay the correct benefit and amount due.

Do I stop and think about the amounts. yes of course, but we dont set the rates and applicable amounts the goverment does and

We dont make the rules we just have to adminster them.

 

This is not rocket science, I know there are people out there who are genuinly in need of help but all you have to do is open your eyes when you walk around and you will more than likely see the people I am talking about its very clear to see who they are!!

[mark1trucker]

the trouble that hardcore is truly a very small minority...but people have been brainwashed into believing that it isn't.....ever since this govt came into power its all we have heard....benefit cheat...lazy...workshy...and i could go on.....its surprising how many people they know anecdotely who have been abusing the system for years...yet did nothing about it...didnt pick up a phone..or write a letter....etc etc...and as to them misusing the system...you can believe the propoganda if you like..but you really need to look at it from a different perspective...and many of us including myself have paid NI for over 30 years..and believed govt spin that we were entitled...well this bloody shower has now changed the rules to suit themselves....so if you were one of the ones 'who believed' you gotta a bloody shock....i truly feel sorry for you..but dont believe for one minute that its a luxurious life on benefts cos it aint..its a daily bloody struggle to survive

 

I am living on benefits now and I don't believe for one minute its a luxurious life!! But like a lot of things in life you adjust to what you have and its a real test financialy to get the most out of what's given.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

This is not rocket science, I know there are people out there who are genuinly in need of help but all you have to do is open your eyes when you walk around and you will more than likely see the people I am talking about its very clear to see who they are!!

 

 

Describe one to me then, so I know what to look out for

Edited June 4, 2012 by MIKEY DABODEE

[flumps1976]

I too work in a JCP office as a customer service officer I have to agree with MIKEY here, we are employed to administer the rules, guidance and rates of benefits as set by Government and Parliament.

 

I do various jobs in the office so I encounter those people who attend to sign on each fortnight and I see those who are experiencing difficulties because of the Incapacity Benefit to ESA transition and I also spend a lot of time discussing via the AJCS appointment system when people have been sanctioned for various reasons and discussing reconsiderations and appeals etc.

I can honestly say that when you are sat at the desk it is not always that easy to tell if that person is genuine or pulling a fast one. Some people seem to know how to work the system though so they never end up with the referral to DMA anyway. All I know is the amount of abuse I receive is oncreasing and some of it physical too but when I can actually help someone and they remember to say "thank you" it makes it worthwhile.

The next round of abuse I am anticipating is the benefit cap :o

[MIKEY DABODEE]

I agree Flumps, I dont have the time or the inclination to judge anybody, I just do my job

but this is going to be contreversial,

I agree with the benefit cap

My opinion is the single and vunerable are sometimes overlooked, I think cut backs are not needed here for sure, the benefit pot just needs spreading out more fairly.

And the rule that takes the biscuit, a single person no fixed abode, so needs all the money they can get, they are not entitled to the disability premium because they dont have an address. WHY?

They are out on the street, and so must need all the money they can get.

But rules are rules.....

Edited June 4, 2012 by MIKEY DABODEE

[honeybee13]

Hello guys.

 

I have unapproved a couple of posts for consideration by the site team. They may be reinstated later.

 

My best, HB

[Nystagmite]

And the rule that takes the biscuit, a single person no fixed abode, so needs all the money they can get, they are not entitled to the disability premium because they dont have an address. WHY?

 

What an odd rule.

 

Flumps - what's AJCS?