Seriously vulnerable family bullied for over 5hrs by bailiffs

[Annette1973]

I would give it 10 days.

 

Yeah, they've gotta get their stories straight

[Annette1973]

Quick update guys. I have just received a letter from the Bailiff Company. They have barely mentioned my evidence, however they have said that if we make a form 4 complaint, they will do everything in their power to discredit us and defend their Bailiffs. I am not worried in the slightest about this threat as, I am sure, they would have a very difficult time defending themselves against a Police report that shows them to have committed several offences.

 

I have decided that I will give them an opportunity to cure, I think that's the right wording. I will send them a bill for the Trespass, admin fees and compensation. I will give them 14 days to pay up, if they do not I will carry out a form 4 complaint, I will report their crimes to the Police, I will send recommendations to the MoJ that the Uncertificated Bailiff is unsuitable for a career in Debt Enforcement and should not be granted certification, I will also turn over all of my evidence etc.... to CIVEA and recommend an investigation into their company.

 

I am not going to make complaint to the Bailiff Company regarding fees and payments as, according to legislation, the council are to be held accountable for the financial side of things.

 

I am concerned, however, as to a new tact they are now using. The only LO we have against us was in June 2010 and the council told us on the phone that this had been paid off quite some time ago. The supposed LO's, that we have proof they did not go to court for, were supposedly outstanding, according to NFDC and Ross and Roberts, these were the orders they were collecting on when the incident at my home occurred. Now they have closed ranks and are attempting to say that we have paid the 2011/2012 debt and they are collecting on the 2010 debt (they know how much trouble they are in for the Bailiffs behaviour at my house, and they are attempting to protect themselves by pretending they were collecting on the only LO they actually had). Slippery little buggers eh?

 

I believe though that this looks worse for them as, it shows that they have been paid, in full, for a non-existent LO. This is extortion, not to mention fraud etc....

 

They are getting very desperate, which is good as, the more desperate they get, the more mistakes they are making.

[Old Cogger]

Also report them to Home Secretary and your M.P. just for good measure, they cannot at a future date deny any knowledge of the incident. Could be very interesting.

 

Of course enclosing copy of the said letter from them.

[unclebulgaria67]

Be careful about the letter you intend to send to the bailiff company. They might try to use this against you. i.e That you are seeking to obtain compensation from them, using the threat of the form 4 complaint.

[Old Cogger]

Be careful about the letter you intend to send to the bailiff company. They might try to use this against you. i.e That you are seeking to obtain compensation from them, using the threat of the form 4 complaint.

 

Could if quoting form 4 complaint - amend to read, that you will may have to investigate form 4 they mention?

[Annette1973]

Could if quoting form 4 complaint - amend to read, that you will may have to investigate form 4 they mention?

 

Thanks Mike and UB. I haven't finished the letter yet so I will reword it regarding the Form 4. I must admit I was a bit worried about giving the wrong impression. I did point out to them that I had a 'No Trespassing' sign on my gate, along with a fee for being in breach of the notice. The 2 Bailiffs accepted this fee as they did not believe they would have to pay it. I have done a lot of research and have found that Bailiffs can be guilty of Trespass, therefore, they owe me the fee.

[caledfwlch]

Ask them how they feel they can discredit you, especially when you have much of it on film!

 

I was wondering whether county court action would be an idea at some point - get a nice little compensation CCJ, for the stress, harrassment, damage to car, the fact medical procedures had to be delayed, and so on. I believe you could name both Ross n Robbers and the Council. It would appear from what I have seen, Bailiff's don't like going to court over CCJ's and generally cave in, most of the time its over unlawfully applied fees, and obviously they dont want the risk that if they lost, there would then be precedents (though not legally binding ones) other people can use. I would imagine a CCJ would make things uncomfortable, contractually, as Bailiff firms need to be fit and proper.

 

Has Wonkey, or TomTubby spoken to you, or mentioned Form 4 Complaints yet? There is a slight element of risk, though I doubt it exists in your situation, so all angles need to be checked

[seanamarts]

Are you applying for a part 7 claim form (form N1) from the county court. You can claim against the council and the bailiffs.

 

With a Form 4, only the bailiff who was certificated can be taken down that path. Although saying that you have a good case against them.

[Annette1973]

Ask them how they feel they can discredit you, especially when you have much of it on film!

 

I was wondering whether county court action would be an idea at some point - get a nice little compensation CCJ, for the stress, harrassment, damage to car, the fact medical procedures had to be delayed, and so on. I believe you could name both Ross n Robbers and the Council. It would appear from what I have seen, Bailiff's don't like going to court over CCJ's and generally cave in, most of the time its over unlawfully applied fees, and obviously they dont want the risk that if they lost, there would then be precedents (though not legally binding ones) other people can use. I would imagine a CCJ would make things uncomfortable, contractually, as Bailiff firms need to be fit and proper.

 

Has Wonkey, or TomTubby spoken to you, or mentioned Form 4 Complaints yet? There is a slight element of risk, though I doubt it exists in your situation, so all angles need to be checked

 

Hi CF. I think you are right. There is a risk that they would win a Form 4 complaint and I would be landed with the charges, however, I'm not too concerned by this due to the evidence against them I have from the Police. I never thought about County Court. I am not too knowledgeable on how to go about using the CC. I know how to do a small claims form etc.... I would probably need some help with the CC.

[Annette1973]

Are you applying for a part 7 claim form (form N1) from the county court. You can claim against the council and the bailiffs.

 

With a Form 4, only the bailiff who was certificated can be taken down that path. Although saying that you have a good case against them.

 

Hi SM. Plan for today is to research all of this. I know what I want as the outcome, however, I am unsure what route to take.

[Old Cogger]

Hi SM. Plan for today is to research all of this. I know what I want as the outcome, however, I am unsure what route to take.

 

Google Bailiff Form 4 etc you should find a lot of info from there to get a full picture etc.

[old bill]

After reading through more recent posts I feel a Form 4 complaint is not the best route to take, the risk of a costs order being one of the lesser risks. It is beginning to look more like Forgery and Fraud on the part of NFDC and R & R than it is a civil dispute and that is a police matter. There is the route of Laying An Information if this becomes necessary, but that is a route that should only be taken with the assistance of a legal professional familiar with Criminal Law and discussion with the police and, possibly, CPS before it is pursued. It is, in essence, the very last resort when every other means of resolution has failed. Also, bear in mind that Laying An Information can only be used where there is evidence of criminal offences - it cannot be used in civil matters.

 

I am wondering if a Statutory Demand is worth considering in the case of R & R as should they fail to comply or fail to have it set aside, they would then face a winding-up order in the sense of closing them down. If any other caggers have any practical suggestions, bearing in mind that NFDC and R & R should be given as little room to manoeuvre as possible, if at all. It also needs to be borne in mind that evidence needs to be in existence to secure a favourable judgement, in a civil case, or realistic prospect of conviction, in a criminal court.

[caledfwlch]

After reading through more recent posts I feel a Form 4 complaint is not the best route to take, the risk of a costs order being one of the lesser risks. It is beginning to look more like Forgery and Fraud on the part of NFDC and R & R than it is a civil dispute and that is a police matter. There is the route of Laying An Information if this becomes necessary, but that is a route that should only be taken with the assistance of a legal professional familiar with Criminal Law and discussion with the police and, possibly, CPS before it is pursued. It is, in essence, the very last resort when every other means of resolution has failed. Also, bear in mind that Laying An Information can only be used where there is evidence of criminal offences - it cannot be used in civil matters.

 

I am wondering if a Statutory Demand is worth considering in the case of R & R as should they fail to comply or fail to have it set aside, they would then face a winding-up order in the sense of closing them down. If any other caggers have any practical suggestions, bearing in mind that NFDC and R & R should be given as little room to manoeuvre as possible, if at all. It also needs to be borne in mind that evidence needs to be in existence to secure a favourable judgement, in a civil case, or realistic prospect of conviction, in a criminal court.

 

I am surprised the Sergeant herself has not performed an arrest on the fact that they lied to her in an attempt to get her to break the law - what is the name of the specific offence committed there (willfully leading an officer astray?)

 

A Form 4 as you say has some risk - we have plenty of evidence here which should guarantee success, but from what I have read before, the Masters do seem to favour their little pets in the industry and have made some surprising decisions - as there are genuine reasons to complain etc, I should think costs are unlikely, but it seems better to take other routes.

 

The council seem to be just faffing around now, and considering the extremely aggressive and offensive letters they have sent, I think its time for Annette to involve the LGO, if necessary, citing a total lack of confidence in the Council's ability to review the complaint impartially - provable by the afore mentioned letters. No Council manager likes the LGO breathing down their neck as I understand it, and this may kick start a resolution, certainly I imagine the Council will be quick to drop the Bailiff's in it, to get the LGO off their own backs.

 

Old Bill - What would you suggest making the statutory demand FOR at the moment? Compensation for the stress, harrassment, postponment of medical operation, damage to car etc?

[Annette1973]

Google Bailiff Form 4 etc you should find a lot of info from there to get a full picture etc.

 

Thanks

[Annette1973]

Thanks guys for all the help and support. I can see that there are several routes to go down regarding this case. I guess I would prefer the quickest route, it would definitely have a negative impact on my health, and sanity, should it all drag on too long.

[wonkeydonkey]

I apologise in advance if I have missed this along the way but, is the Formal Complaints procedure seen to have been given a Final Respose by the Council ie: they no longer have a futher reply to the facts before them? If not then the LGO cannot intervene at this point, also, to attempt to seek any compensation for an act that as yet is not 'proven' to have taken place is a non starter.

 

IMHO this poster needs to obtain some form of 'Judgment' if compensation is what she intends to make claim to and, unless she wants to enter into Civil Litigation without waiting for an independant 'Judgment' from the LGO it will be more than an up hill struggle before her and more like an attempt to conquer Everest wearing shorts and Tshirt.

 

Of course this is only MHO and the poster will ultimately be the one to decide the way forward.

 

WD

[ploddertom]

Going back to the Form 4 for a moment. As one of the antagonists was not Certificated at the time then no action can be taken against him in this respect.

 

Also going back to the sign you have - I believe even Lord Scarman has made comment on this as I also believe even the Police have to take notice of it.

 

PT

[seanamarts]

Having been through the form 4 process, it is a very draining, however very rewarding if you win. It is not something to take lightly and not some thing you should attempt on your own.

 

Really depends how the certificated bailiff had acted and was it all the uncertificated bailiff that did all the damage

[Annette1973]

I apologise in advance if I have missed this along the way but, is the Formal Complaints procedure seen to have been given a Final Respose by the Council ie: they no longer have a futher reply to the facts before them? If not then the LGO cannot intervene at this point, also, to attempt to seek any compensation for an act that as yet is not 'proven' to have taken place is a non starter.

 

IMHO this poster needs to obtain some form of 'Judgment' if compensation is what she intends to make claim to and, unless she wants to enter into Civil Litigation without waiting for an independant 'Judgment' from the LGO it will be more than an up hill struggle before her and more like an attempt to conquer Everest wearing shorts and Tshirt.

 

Of course this is only MHO and the poster will ultimately be the one to decide the way forward.

 

WD

 

Hi WD. I believe that the council are now refusing to look into this anymore. They will not reply to anything at the moment so, i am taking their silence as a refusal to investigate further.

[Annette1973]

Going back to the Form 4 for a moment. As one of the antagonists was not Certificated at the time then no action can be taken against him in this respect.

 

Also going back to the sign you have - I believe even Lord Scarman has made comment on this as I also believe even the Police have to take notice of it.

 

PT

 

Hi PT, you are correct. My local Police like to check on me every now and then due to what happened. They never come past the sign without asking first, even though I've already told them it is ok for them to come in.

[Annette1973]

Having been through the form 4 process, it is a very draining, however very rewarding if you win. It is not something to take lightly and not some thing you should attempt on your own.

 

Really depends how the certificated bailiff had acted and was it all the uncertificated bailiff that did all the damage

 

Hi PT and SM. This is my concern exactly. The most viscious of the Bailiffs was the male Bailiff. I am concerned that, as he was not certificated, he will not be held accountable. Luckily one of my neighbours has written a statement that the male Bailiff dealt with us alone for an hour or so with no supervision whatsoever. This will at least ensure that RnR will be held accountable for that, however, again, he will not bear the brunt of the punishment.

[seanamarts]

Form 4 may not be your best route to take based on that. If council are now ignoring you then you need to get the ombudsman involved.

[wonkeydonkey]

First you must write to the Council and ask if their silence is to be taken as their Final Response and tell them should you fail to hear from them within 7 days you will consider that to be case and move the matter forward to the LGO. Otherwise they can pipe up at a later stage and claim they have been denied the right to make a full reply.

 

WD

[Annette1973]

Morning guys. Thanks for the info. I have already written to the council regarding their lack of response etc.... Their deadline is today. If I don't hear from them, then I am going to pass everything over to the LGO and my MP, first thing Monday morning.

[unclebulgaria67]

Morning guys. Thanks for the info. I have already written to the council regarding their lack of response etc.... Their deadline is today. If I don't hear from them, then I am going to pass everything over to the LGO and my MP, first thing Monday morning.

 

Sounds like the right way to proceed.