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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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'No Parking Sign on private land - by that I mean OUR land


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Hi Guys,

 

I'm a wee bit angry! About 18 months ago we bought a new build house! It has a garage, but the garage is attached to a coach house. Our garage is right at the end and against the wall and so we have a long drive as there is no need for anyone to drive behind us. So my husband tends to park on the drive and I park behind him or vice versa. I'm not 100% sure where the drive ends and where it is a 'public road' but even if it is a public road by parking there the only person it could possibly block is me or my husband.

 

Since the coach house was sold (about 4 months after we bought our house) we have had nothing but problems with them. They are young, but that's no excuse. Firstly they demanded part payment of their buildings insurance because our garage formed part of 'their' building. And then we got letters dictating what we could and coudn't keep in our garage. I was livid and wanted to fight it, but my husband looked at the deeds and saw it did indeed say they were entitled to ask for 1/6th of the buildings insurance for the garage - he paid it - behind my back - I was willing to fight it but he just wants a quiet life.

 

Last week we got a knock on the door asking if my friend (who had just popped over for a chat) could move her car as it was parked behind mine and was obstructiong them - I really don't see how it was, but, my friend moved it anyway - even she came back and was confused as to what the problem was.

 

Tonight my husband has come home and there is a sign right behind out drive, next to my car saying 'no parking', the land it is refering to is either OUR land or, public land - it certainly isn't theres. Tempting as it is to rip it down I'd rather do the right thing. I can grab the plans and see if it is on our drive - but then what, do I go to the police and say someone has vandalised our land? If it is public land do I contact the council?

 

I am so angry but do not want to be hasty, and want to be the grown up here.

 

What do you guys suggest?

 

Thanks in advance - sorry if I missed anything or if I'm in the wrong place - I could be wrong as to who put it up - but someone has.

 

Am I right in thinking that no one has any right to do that?

 

Thanks

 

Sam

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I don't see why you are so angry apart from the parking episode you are in the wrong, you should have checked the deeds when you moved in getting angry with your new neighbours because they are asking for money you legally owe them is hardly going to foster a good relationship is it?

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If it is your land, then they have no right to put up a No Parking sign and neither do they if it is Public Land, I would think.

 

I guess the first thing you need to do is establish just whose land it is.. then take it from there :)

 

A friend once said to me if we were allowed to own guns as they do in America.. we would end up shooting one another over parking !!

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Hi Ezychic,

I always say if you're going to fire a gun make sure there are bullets in it.

So how to get those bullets.... Well for a start you can claim adverse usage which in laymans terms is possession is 9/10ths of the law. Check with land registry what the actual boundaries are and ring the council to check the position regarding any rights of way. If you want to further this i would advise you that you will be in it for the long haul, you will need a specialist boundary dispute lawyer.

So go and get those bullets and post back here with the details.

Kind regards

Gbarbm

Gbarbm

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All I can say is thank god you are not my neighbour!

 

????? You would put a sign up on your neighbours land saying no parking and then be p*ssed off when they parked there?

 

We have parked there since the house was built, it's our drive!

 

Or - you would stop parking on your drive because someone put a sign up telling you you couldn't park there? (when you have paid £250k for your house).

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just pin a copy of the deeds on the notice

 

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We have parked there since the house was built, it's our drive!

 

 

Just as its your garage but you refused to pay the insurance on it when asked and still think you shouldn't despite the fact the deeds you signed when you moved in said you should? If my neighbours put up a sign I would speak to them and ask what the issue was not waste my time slagging them off on a website.

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I think the advice in post 6 is spot on. Stay calm for now, do a bit of research, and if you are satisfied that you have free use of that land and it's none of their business, and you're not causing some kind of problem for them, put it in writing to them, rip down the sign and you're OK again. (It might be a bit optimistic to think you will remain on friendly terms with them though.)

 

Assuming you are all clear to park there, you may also consider fencing it off somehow.

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Just as its your garage but you refused to pay the insurance on it when asked and still think you shouldn't despite the fact the deeds you signed when you moved in said you should? If my neighbours put up a sign I would speak to them and ask what the issue was not waste my time slagging them off on a website.

 

What can I say other then you seem so chilled out! If I'm ever around your way I will live free in the knowledge that I can put signs up on your property indicating what you can and cannot do.

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Hi Ezychic,

I always say if you're going to fire a gun make sure there are bullets in it.

So how to get those bullets.... Well for a start you can claim adverse usage which in laymans terms is possession is 9/10ths of the law. Check with land registry what the actual boundaries are and ring the council to check the position regarding any rights of way. If you want to further this i would advise you that you will be in it for the long haul, you will need a specialist boundary dispute lawyer.

So go and get those bullets and post back here with the details.

Kind regards

Gbarbm

 

Hi, already checked the land details as we have them here (we got a copy with the house). By rights or way do you mean they may need it for access? Not at all - our garage is in the corner. right up the side of it is a wall (which we park against), perpendicular to that wall is ours and next doors garden gate and a wall. it's a complete dead end. The only people that would ever need to access it is us.

 

I was just wondering whether we should just pull the sign down or whether we should make them remove it and repair the damage they have done to the wall (the deeds show it as ours).

 

Will contact planning tomorrow and the local council to double check - if for whatever reason it is on council land will see what they suggest re removal - as in do we do it or do they.

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Maybe this is in the wrong forum? Seems to me that it is a property issue rather than a transport one.

 

Hi, thought parking as it was a random parking sign - propert isn't in question. Not to worry will see what the best action for removal is tomorrow.

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Hi Ezychic

Let us know what the council say....oh and one other thing, I note you said your property was a new build, do you have any documentation from the developer which may give details regarding the coach house?

Gbarbm

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Hi Ezychic

Let us know what the council say....oh and one other thing, I note you said your property was a new build, do you have any documentation from the developer which may give details regarding the coach house?

 

Hi,

what kind of documentation?

 

I think TBH they were told a load of lies by the sales guys and STILL don't see they were taken for a ride. I remember ages ago them mentioning not parking where we were (as in on our drive) as they wanted to put two cars on their drive like the sales girls said they could. And if we kept parking on our drive they would be blocking us in - I remember being baffled as to how anyone could imagine getting two cars there without blocking access to what was quite clearly our drive.

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Hi Ezychic

Let us know what the council say....oh and one other thing, I note you said your property was a new build, do you have any documentation from the developer which may give details regarding the coach house?

 

 

What kind of documentation?

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Just checked with a mate who is a conveyencing solicitor - he says no rights at all to put the sign up. Contact the council re: removal so we can't be accused of theft.

 

Does he specialise in parking matters then? Sorry but in my opinion this is a property dispute. Parking regulations (private or otherwise) have nothing to do with this unless someone has been clamped or issued with a 'parking charge notice'.

 

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What kind of documentation?

 

 

Deeds and the like.

 

I think initially this was a parking issue.. regardless of whether it was not to do with fines or clamping.

 

IMHO, it is slightly irrelevant because the OP has attracted comment/advice.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

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5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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