Cap1 & CCA return

[Peterbard]

Hiya, just giving this a little bump up;)

 

Hi

Minney

 

This agreement is regulated by the FSA and i am haveing to double check that the rules regarding the TCC still apply this is not my usual area however i will get back to you as soon as i have the information hopefully within the next couple of days.

 

Best regards

Petr

[Maurice1977]

Hi

Minney

 

This agreement is regulated by the FSA and i am haveing to double check that the rules regarding the TCC still apply this is not my usual area however i will get back to you as soon as i have the information hopefully within the next couple of days.

 

Best regards

Petr

 

Dear Peter

 

I have ready most of your threads and you are obviously an authority of credit agreements, I would be very grateful if you could take a look at my thread and let me have your comments.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/115794-amex-solicitors-playing-games.html

 

Many thanks

[Minney]

Hi

Minney

 

This agreement is regulated by the FSA and i am haveing to double check that the rules regarding the TCC still apply this is not my usual area however i will get back to you as soon as i have the information hopefully within the next couple of days.

 

Best regards

Petr

Thank you sooo much Peter;) your a real Diamond;)

[paulwlton]

Woodchester v Swaine- Re: default notice.

 

Serious impications for a defective notice.

 

The argument which commended itself to the assistant recorder in the present case was that the approach to Section 88 (1) (b) of the 1974 Act should be the same as that adopted in relation, for example, to Section 24 (2) (b) of the Agricultural Holdings Act 1948. I do not agree. Here we are dealing with a statute which, for good and obvious reasons, requires a lender or owner to set out precisely what needs to be done to put right the alleged breach of contract. If a sum of money has to be paid it needs to be "specified". And if the figure given is more than the sum which the giver of the notice is entitled to demand, the notice, in my judgment, must be invalid. A similarly strict approach was taken in this court in relation to a preliminary notice under Case D of the Agricultural Holdings (Notice to Quit) Act 1977 in Dickinson v Boucher [1983] 269 EGLR 1159. But, as Mr Gruffyd points out, the words of the statute were very different. I do not, therefore, look to that authority for support in arriving at the conclusion to which I have already referred.

 

Paul

[Peterbard]

Woodchester v Swaine- Re: default notice.

 

 

Serious impications for a defective notice.

 

The argument which commended itself to the assistant recorder in the present case was that the approach to Section 88 (1) (b) of the 1974 Act should be the same as that adopted in relation, for example, to Section 24 (2) (b) of the Agricultural Holdings Act 1948. I do not agree. Here we are dealing with a statute which, for good and obvious reasons, requires a lender or owner to set out precisely what needs to be done to put right the alleged breach of contract. If a sum of money has to be paid it needs to be "specified". And if the figure given is more than the sum which the giver of the notice is entitled to demand, the notice, in my judgment, must be invalid. A similarly strict approach was taken in this court in relation to a preliminary notice under Case D of the Agricultural Holdings (Notice to Quit) Act 1977 in Dickinson v Boucher [1983] 269 EGLR 1159. But, as Mr Gruffyd points out, the words of the statute were very different. I do not, therefore, look to that authority for support in arriving at the conclusion to which I have already referred.

 

 

Paul

 

Hi

Paul

 

A very usefull bit of information

 

Many thanks

 

Peter

[stebiz]

Not holding a lot of hope out on this one. Being taken to court by a company who bought a 'debt' from Barclays.

 

I asked for proof. None has come but they say that they have it and will show it in court as it is commercially sensitive. They have shown a small part of document which shows they bought debts from Barclaycard.

 

They have provided a copy of the 'agreement'. Enclosed below

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/stebiz/app.jpg?t=1191341167

 

The terms and conditions is on a separate sized piece of paper and is obviously one they have got from the period in question.

 

I would love somebody to pick holes in this for me. The company who bought the debt from Barclays already obtained a CCJ on this debt - which I had set aside. Within days they were trying to get a charging order on my house. Any advice really appreciated. I need to get a defence in tomorrow.

 

Stebiz

[nicklea]

One possibility is to check that the apr figure is correct. There are some websites around the place that will check that the apr and payments are correct.

 

If they don't match then the repayments are wrong and, if there is a total charge for credit shown then that will be wrong as well.

 

Not only do all the prescirbed terms have to be there but they have to be accurate as well.

 

I have this on a loan from Sainsburys Bank - they quote an apr of 6.0% on the agreement but the repayments actually work out at 6.2%apr!!! so I did an SAR and there it is on their system that they're charging me 6.2%

[stebiz]

One possibility is to check that the apr figure is correct. There are some websites around the place that will check that the apr and payments are correct.

 

If they don't match then the repayments are wrong and, if there is a total charge for credit shown then that will be wrong as well.

 

Not only do all the prescirbed terms have to be there but they have to be accurate as well.

 

I have this on a loan from Sainsburys Bank - they quote an apr of 6.0% on the agreement but the repayments actually work out at 6.2%apr!!! so I did an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and there it is on their system that they're charging me 6.2%

 

Thanks for that Nick. It does actually work out slightly different (if I'm doing it right).

 

Image encl.

 

I'm not sure how to defend this though. A judge won't throw it out on that alone. What should I be looking at?? Terms and Conditions?? No notice period?? Can they bang all the interest on upfront and still claim this back? Are the company who bought the debt allowed to take this to court even though a statement I was received from Barclays said written off??

 

Need some help folks in getting some kind of defence.

 

Cheers

Steve

apr.bmp

[ncf355]

Not holding a lot of hope out on this one. Being taken to court by a company who bought a 'debt' from Barclays.

 

I asked for proof. None has come but they say that they have it and will show it in court as it is commercially sensitive. They have shown a small part of document which shows they bought debts from Barclaycard.

 

They have provided a copy of the 'agreement'. Enclosed below

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/stebiz/app.jpg?t=1191341167

 

The terms and conditions is on a separate sized piece of paper and is obviously one they have got from the period in question.

 

I would love somebody to pick holes in this for me. The company who bought the debt from Barclays already obtained a CCJ on this debt - which I had set aside. Within days they were trying to get a charging order on my house. Any advice really appreciated. I need to get a defence in tomorrow.

 

Stebiz

 

According to dualcalc (apr calculator from OFT's own website) the APR is 6.0% and not 5.9 - not sure if this is enough difference, though I think the regs state it can be up to 1% UNDER but not one bit OVER what they quote

 

You state the T and C are on a seperate sized sheet, is their any voisible link between the 2 that would lead you to believe they could be on the same document in the original?

 

If not, the T and C would be unenforceable as they must be in the same document!

 

PRESCRIBED terms must be within the sig doc, if not, they cannot enforce the agreement even with the court

[ncf355]

Does it have the heading (in a prominent place, on the front page) "Consumer Credit Agreement regulated by the consumer Credit Act 1974"

 

?

[Pen]

Hi everyone.

I'm hoping you don't mind me butting in on this site for some advice.??? I have been trying since December to try and get my SAR details from my employer now thanks to the IFC I have them. Included in these details is my company loan car agreement which I do not think is a valid agreement under the CCA could I possibly post a copy of the agreement on here for someone to take a look for me and give me their opinion!! please. or alternatevely could I send it as a PM for someone to look at.

 

thanks

Pen

[ncf355]

Thats what the site is here for, your not "butting in"

 

 

Post away!

[Peterbard]

Not holding a lot of hope out on this one. Being taken to court by a company who bought a 'debt' from Barclays.

 

I asked for proof. None has come but they say that they have it and will show it in court as it is commercially sensitive. They have shown a small part of document which shows they bought debts from Barclaycard.

 

They have provided a copy of the 'agreement'. Enclosed below

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/stebiz/app.jpg?t=1191341167

 

The terms and conditions is on a separate sized piece of paper and is obviously one they have got from the period in question.

 

I would love somebody to pick holes in this for me. The company who bought the debt from Barclays already obtained a CCJ on this debt - which I had set aside. Within days they were trying to get a charging order on my house. Any advice really appreciated. I need to get a defence in tomorrow.

 

Stebiz

 

 

HI

 

I can't really make out a lot of he deail on this,I don't know how to rotate it 90.

Anyway the APR on the agreement works out at 15% which within the tollerence required bythe regulations which state the actual APR can be 1% above or .1% below that stated on the agreement.

All the prescribed terms seem to be there for this type of agreement.

 

There should be a heading that says credit agreement regulated under the consumer credit act 1974 at the top.

Also was this ageement signed in the creditors premisesor at home if it was a consolidation loan signed away from creditors premises and there was anticednt negotiations(prior contact) then the agreement should be cancellable but there are no cancellation details i can see on the agreement.

Aso if i read it right the right hand side of the agrement is the application and the left is the agreement so why has the creditor signed it the day before you applied like i say i may have this wrong it is not very clear.

The terms and conditions of the agreement should be within the agreement itself and not on a sepperate documment not nesseseraly on the same page but identifyable as part of the agreement

The main point of the above is the cancellation details if these are not correct it could render the agreement unenforceable via section 127(4) of the act the other points would only render it enforceable by an order of the court.

 

Best regards

Peter

[stebiz]

HI

 

I can't really make out a lot of he deail on this,I don't know how to rotate it 90.

Anyway the APR on the agreement works out at 15% which within the tollerence required bythe regulations which state the actual APR can be 1% above or .1% below that stated on the agreement.

All the prescribed terms seem to be there for this type of agreement.

 

There should be a heading that says credit agreement regulated under the consumer credit act 1974 at the top.

Also was this ageement signed in the creditors premisesor at home if it was a consolidation loan signed away from creditors premises and there was anticednt negotiations(prior contact) then the agreement should be cancellable but there are no cancellation details i can see on the agreement.

Aso if i read it right the right hand side of the agrement is the application and the left is the agreement so why has the creditor signed it the day before you applied like i say i may have this wrong it is not very clear.

The terms and conditions of the agreement should be within the agreement itself and not on a sepperate documment not nesseseraly on the same page but identifyable as part of the agreement

The main point of the above is the cancellation details if these are not correct it could render the agreement unenforceable via section 127(4) of the act the other points would only render it enforceable by an order of the court.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.

 

I made an enquiry by phone after they sent a flyer. They sent the application/agreement to sign and send back a copy (it was on carbon paper). There are no cancellation rights and the T&c'S are not attached to the agreement - in fact they could belong to any agreement.

 

The top part were it may sat Consumer Credit Agreement is cut off on the copy sent to me. What is section 127(4)?

 

Do you have a link to the CCA?

 

Cheers

Steve

[MoonHawk]

Consumer Credit Act 1974

Consumer Credit Act 2006

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[Fred_Funk]

It's like this...

 

On April 5, I sent a CCA request to Honours Student Loans with regard to my student loan account (two loans dating from the early 90s).

 

On April 27, they replied with an illegible copy of one of the two loan agreements - I could read bits but not the small print and could see, clearly, that it hadn't been signed at their end - and no terms and conditions for either.

 

A little later, on July 25, I wrote back clarifying that I expected legible copies of both loan agreements, together with terms and conditions, and a statement of account. I also pointed out that by now, HSL were in default and had committed a criminal offence.

 

Yesterday, almost six months after my original request, HSL finally managed to send me copies of both loan agreements and 'a standard copy of the terms and conditions that would have been applicable at the time of your loans'.

 

Now this is where the fun begins! ;-)

 

One of the loan agreements, HSL sent me a copy of has, clearly, been doctored since they first sent it to me back in April. Where it was unsigned by them it is now signed and where I'd inadvertently dated it incorrectly the date has now been altered to the correct one.

 

Of course, it would be difficult for me to prove this had the idiots not already sent me a rather different copy of the same loan agreement.

 

I can only assume that this time around someone spotted the errors/omissions, guessed that I would do the same and thought they'd put them right while forgetting they'd already sent me a copy of the loan agreement which, while not entirely legible, is very different to this one.

 

Surely, this kind of underhand behaviour ought not to be tolerated and, with this in mind, I'd like to do what I can to ensure HSL have the proverbial book thrown at them.

 

To this end, how do you guys think I should proceed from here?!

 

Thanks in anticipation

Fred_Funk

[patrickq1]

The Government is looking to allow banks to provide details of 33 million bank accounts to credit reference agencies, despite not having your consent to do so.

 

The Government is considering changing the law to allow the banks to hand over the details, as it believes that this will help to tackle over-indebtedness.

 

We firmly believe that this flies in the face of banking confidentiality, drives a coach and horses through the protections given to consumers by the Data Protection Acts, and is in contravention of human rights of privacy.

 

 

We have launched a campaign to challenge this proposal. It gives you the chance to tell the Prime Minister directly that you do not want your personal information shared with others without your consent.

 

Over 8,000 of you have already signed up. Click here to join them. You will be directed to the relevant page on the website of 10 Downing Street.

This is an important issue for many people. If you agree with our thoughts, please ask your friends and family also to sign the petition.

[ncf355]

It's like this...

 

On April 5, I sent a CCA request to Honours Student Loans with regard to my student loan account (two loans dating from the early 90s).

 

 

To this end, how do you guys think I should proceed from here?!

 

Thanks in anticipation

Fred_Funk

 

 

Fred,

 

I was under the impression Student Loans arer exempt from the CCA requirements,

 

Peter, are you out there?

 

An opinion on this ?

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

If you have your copy of the Act you will see that your agreement falls into section 63 and since thee was no face to face contact before it was executed will be uncancellable.

 

THis means that the agreement will not be automaticaly unenforceable under section 127.

 

I think your best defence would be, that no terms and conditions were included in the agreement you signed and therefore it was improperly executed.

This would not make the agreement automatically unenforceable but it would be up to the judge to decide the amount of detriment caused by the breach and rule accordingly.

 

A suggestion for your defence would be:

 

That the agreement was improperly executed in that it did not conform to section 60 and is therefore unenforceable under sections 65 and 127(1)i.

 

Section 60,”Form and contents of regulations” subsection 1(a) state that the debtor must be aware of the rights and duties imposed on him by the agreement as prescribed in regulations.(SI 1983/1553)

 

The agreement regulations SI1983/1553 state that the requirements for the inclusion financial information and statements of protection and remedies that must be contained within the signature document.

 

The fact that this information was not presented when the agreement was sent to the debtor for signing meant that the agreement was improperly executed under section 61 of the act and therefore enforceable only by order of the court under section 65. It is my contention that because of predjudice caused by this breach any application for an enforcement order should be dismissed under section 127(1)i.

 

Best regards

 

Peter

[stebiz]

Thanks for that Peter. There was brief contact in Barclays originally when they suggested I take out a consolidation loan. I think this is why I was sent the flyer/leaflets but I guess this was minimal and therefore falls outside of the act.

 

I am going to get my defence in later so will have a look at some of your wording and include it. Really appreciate it.

 

Steve

[Peterbard]

Thanks for that Peter. There was brief contact in Barclays originally when they suggested I take out a consolidation loan. I think this is why I was sent the flyer/leaflets but I guess this was minimal and therefore falls outside of the act.

 

I am going to get my defence in later so will have a look at some of your wording and include it. Really appreciate it.

 

Steve

 

Was this face to face contact or by telephone and can you prove it?

 

Regards

Peter

[stebiz]

Hi Peter,

 

I was having problems paying certain agreements at the time. At Branch level they suggested I took out a loan at a preferential rate (because I had a Barclaycard). They arranged for some information to be sent to me. No I guess I can't prove it unless the branch were prepared to admit it - which I doubt. I guess the onus is on me?? I might add this to my defence on the basis it is covered by the CCA, as well as mention about the agreement not having been executed correctly. Perhaps it will give me more ammunition?

 

Stebiz

[Peterbard]

Was this face to face contact or by telephone and can you prove it?

 

Regards

Peter

 

How About

 

 

My defence is that the agreement is unenforceable in that:

 

The agreement was improperly executed and did not contain cancellation details in breach of section 64 0f the act.

 

In that antecedent negotiations took place with the creditor prior to the agreement being sent for signing, and that signing took place away from creditors’ premises making the agreement cancellable as per regulations.

 

The creditor is therefore in breach of section 64(1) and 127(4) of the act which renders the agreement unenforceable.

 

In addition to this

 

That the agreement was improperly executed in that it did not conform to section 60 and is therefore any application for an enforcement order should be dismissed under sections 65 and 127(1)i.

 

In that section 60,”Form and contents of regulations” subsection 1(a) state that the debtor must be aware of the rights and duties imposed on him by the agreement as prescribed in regulations.(SI 1983/1553)

 

The agreement regulations SI1983/1553 state that the requirements for the inclusion financial information and statements of protection and remedies that must be contained within the signature document.

 

The fact that this information was not presented when the agreement was sent to the debtor for signing meant that the agreement was improperly executed under section 61 of the act and therefore enforceable only by order of the court under section 65. It is my contention that because of predjudice caused by this breach any application for an enforcement order should be dismissed under section 127(1)i.

[Peterbard]

Hi you might want to hav a look here for more information about canellable agreements.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/103383-agreement-enforceability-2.html

 

Best regards

Peter

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi all

 

Just a quciky

 

Got a Barclaycard CCA back today.

 

There is no signature or date by the lender. Theres no where on the form for it to go.

 

Am i right in saying its unenforcable under section 61 (a)

 

HAK