Help! Husband's 18year old mortgage debt landed on our doorstep today. I'm terrified.

[perplexedofdorset]

SS's said that my OH had emailed them in 2001, 2002 and written to them in 2004 and sent copies to me as evidence of contact in September last year...emails from a temporary email address (I think) and the letter not being signed, as far as I can see from the copy sent to me....I wrote back saying that anyone at anytime could have written it...

[Halibutt]

SS's said that my OH had emailed them in 2001, 2002 and written to them in 2004 and sent copies to me as evidence of contact in September last year...emails from a temporary email address (I think) and the letter not being signed, as far as I can see from the copy sent to me....I wrote back saying that anyone at anytime could have written it...

 

Depends where the email was sent from. If the recipient had kept the IP address header and it could be proved that the IP address was assigned to your husband's home or work account, etc. then claiming no knowledge might be difficult. Most people wouldn't bother using a masked or proxy IP either. However, I can't imagine they'll have kept email header information for coming up to 8 years. Unless they're particularly meticulous and suspected there were indicators of a future dispute.

[unclebulgaria67]

SS's said that my OH had emailed them in 2001, 2002 and written to them in 2004 and sent copies to me as evidence of contact in September last year...emails from a temporary email address (I think) and the letter not being signed, as far as I can see from the copy sent to me....I wrote back saying that anyone at anytime could have written it...

 

As long as they are not admitting to the debt and cannot be proved to come from your husband, then they are of no value.

 

I would not mention these, at this stage. If Halifax have provided these to the FOS, you can challenge these, if they are raised as evidence he acknowledged the debt.

[perplexedofdorset]

I really don't think it could be proved as coming from my OH as they were spurious addresses, not work or personal (that I know of)

unfortunately the letter of 2004 (unsigned as far as I can tell) offered £1000 in full and final. GULP!

 

So the letter is as of post no:572 with the exception of the use of 'mortgage holder' rather than my husband.....is that good to go?????/

Edited April 1, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[Halibutt]

The adresses make no difference. It's the machine they were sent from.

 

For instance with the IP address (made up here) 277.189.09.04. I could (with no special software) look up the general location of the computer, the browser used, the Internet Service Provider, etc.

 

For an example, try typing your own IP address into: http://ip-lookup.net/

 

From that, with court permission, I could request the name and physical address of the person who owns the computer.

[unclebulgaria67]

I really don't think it could be proved as coming from my OH as they were spurious addresses, not work or personal (that I know of)

unfortunately the letter of 2004 (unsigned as far as I can tell) offered £1000 in full and final. GULP!

 

So the letter is as of post no:572 with the exception of the use of 'mortgage holder' rather than my husband.....is that good to go?????/

 

Yes, just send it.

 

Re the emails and letters, if they don't have proof they have come from your OH, then it would be up to them to obtain the evidence. I wouldn't worry about this for the minute.

 

It is just one step at a time. See what the FOS say next. They will no doubt revert back to Halifax if any info is missing and respond to you in due course.

[perplexedofdorset]

Thanks Uncle B, Have a good week!

[perplexedofdorset]

TERRIBLE NEWS

I have today received the decision of the FOS as regards my OH case...and its not good!

 

They state they cannot uphold our complaint as they are satisfied that the H did contact my OH within the 6 years.....

when he was allegedly making payments toward the debt.

 

They have looked at the H'S internal contact notes, saying that my OH returned a voice mail message and agreed to pay back the debt.

These are the same payments (I assume) that I have had the two lists of (which don't agree)

The FOS goes onto say they did not find the H's, marketing of the property to be unsatisfactory....

 

'I'm scared and disturbed...if the H tell me they cannot provide details from where these payments came, how come the FOS are accepting some internal contact notes and the payments as proof from that my OH made the calls and payments.

 

The FOS say this concludes their investigation unless I disaggree in writing by the 19th April 2012......I must explain why and provide evidence that I have not already provided that i think is important to the case...but isn't the point that we dont have and more importantly the H dont have evidence of whom made the payments.

They finish by explaing I have the right to ask them to review the case ...as the final stage in our process

what happens then, they slap on the handcuffs and take my OH to jail????

 

She also says that she enclosed the internal notes and list of payments for our reference, but she didn't.

 

HELP HELP HELP...

I'm really worried now, I thought this was going to take months yet this is barely a couple of months old...and I thought that the fact that the H couldn't identify the source of the payments would hold some import...

 

 

Please come to my aide...This letter has ruined a really nice day and I'm going to pieces again....

Edited April 10, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[Dougal16T]

OK....we are going to get to grips with this fiasco right now

 

This is not as serious as it appears.

1.Make sure you write to the FOS and tell them that you disagree with their decision BEFORE 19/4/2012. In your letter tell them you are' not prepared to accept their decision' tell them you want them to send the 'enclosed copy of internal notes and list of payments, which were not in your envelope when it arrived at your home.' Tell them you are unable at this stage to provide further evidence but will be in a position to do so within 28 days from the date of your letter.

 

2. Write to the Halifax and 'request full and unredacted details of the alleged payments made by your husband, including, but not limited to: the exact date and time the alleged payments were made, the location where the alleged payments were made, the name of the Bank or Building Society receiving the alleged payments and the name of the person making those alleged payments.Further and in the same terms the exact sum of each alleged payment and when it was apparently received by the Halifax, and at which branch it was apparently credited to this account at the Halifax.'

 

3. Tell the Halifax this: 'If you are unable to provide the information requested within the timescale given, you are to notify me immediately and in any case you to confirm receipt of these instructions within 48 hours. All correspondence and telephone calls are logged and recorded for evidential purposes.' It is vital you also write the following in your letter: 'You are to particularly note that this alleged debt is now in serious dispute with your Organisation.'

 

This will do a variety of things:

 

It will advise the FOS that there are other matters to be considered.

It will advise the Halifax that there are other enquiries being made

It will also (I hope) give you a little respite for a week or two...I have not read all of the posts, but do you have a copy of the Original agreement with the Halifax?.

 

Best wishes

 

Dougal

[dx100uk]

thanks dougal

 

dx

[perplexedofdorset]

Hello Dougal,

 

unredacted ??????////

 

 

No I do not have any copy of the original mortgage with the H, this was my OH's debt from before we were married (its complicated, I knew him but we weren't together) that's after a parking ticket escalated because he ignored it/was too busy to pay it, they found us....He seems to have completely wiped any knowledge of this era of his life from his memory. He was in a toxic marriage that was breaking down and suffering a nervous breakdown in the later years of the '90s and simply has no recollection...

 

Here is an amended draft of a letter I have written in reply, could you please advise me as to additions or taking outs etc

 

 

Thank you for your letter of the 5th April which due to the Easter holidays I have only just received. We are understandably upset over your initial decision and are not prepared to accept it. We believe that you have failed to understand our complaint in that the contact and payments did not originate from my husband, the mortgage holder.

 

You say in your letter that you have enclosed copies of the Halifax’s internal contact notes and list of payments for us but I failed to find these, do you think you could send these on to us please?

I suspect they are the same as already received from the Halifax and am therefore at a loss to understand your ruling as these do not constitute proof that my husband made any of these contacts or payments.

 

The Halifax have already admitted to us that they are unable to prove from whom these payments and admittances of debt originated from which underlines our point that although some payments have been made toward the alleged debt, they did not originate from my husband, the mortgage holder.

 

Another point to take into account is that between the two separate lists provided by the Halifax of payments toward the alleged debt, neither correlate, with different dates and amounts paid. Surely this shows a lack of reliability on the part of the Halifax and its contractors. Couple these discrepancies with the Halifax’s inability to provide evidence of the source of the payments and we find their allegations of contact within the 6 years to be highly suspect.

 

We have asked the Halifax to provide us with evidence from whom these payments and contacts originated and as soon as we receive them will be in touch.

Edited April 10, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[unclebulgaria67]

Agree with Dougal. Follow their advice. The FOS are simply stating that Halifax did make contact within the 6 years, so at the moment they do not think the CML code of conduct has been breached. But that was only part of the complaint.

 

Write back to FOS as advised by Dougal.

 

Write to Halifax asking for the proof of payments, which they had not provided previously.

 

Perplexed. This was always likely to drag on, as given the amount of money involved, Halifax will not give in easily. It will be one step at a time.

[perplexedofdorset]

Uncle B,

 

They seem to just completely accept the payments were made by my OH, despite H stating that they couldn't provide this proof....

Im scared...the FOS seem to have looked, none too closely because why all the discrepancies in the two alleged payments lists and said..

well that's an easy one...

 

What do people think of the letter above, to the FOS ombudsperson

and this tentative draft to H as advised by dougal...sorry its not fleahed out I dont know how......

 

 

 

Following the initial decision made by the FOS in this case, I am asking for the full and unredacted details of the alleged payments that seem to have been made available to the FOS; including, but not limited to: the exact date and time the alleged payments were made, the location where the alleged payments were made, the name of the Bank or Building Society receiving the alleged payments and the name of the person making those alleged payments. Further and in the same terms the exact sum of each alleged payment and when it was apparently received by the Halifax, and at which branch it was apparently credited to this account at the Halifax. I have asked for these details before, which you said were unable to be provided to me.

 

If you are unable to provide the information requested before the end of this week 15th April 2012, you are to notify me immediately and in any case you to confirm receipt of these instructions within 48 hours, as I am under a time constraint from the FOS.

Please note that this alleged debt is now in serious dispute with your Organisation

[unclebulgaria67]

It is not unusual for the FOS to side with companies, as they deal with some of the companies representatives on a regular basis. It can depend on what person at the FOS had looked at the complaint. I read of an Insurance case that had been going on for 2 years, with at first the FOS upholding the complaint, then rejecting it and then it was stuck on the ombudsmans desk. I presume that the actual ombudsman must have a massive in tray on their desk,

 

I think the draft letters to both the FOS and Halifax are ok.

[perplexedofdorset]

I think the draft letters to both the FOS and halifax are ok.

 

But especially to the H, not rounded but I don't really know what I'm meant to be writing.............

 

AAAGGGHHHHH

 

amendedletter to the FOS above ..in blue.

Edited April 10, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[perplexedofdorset]

the other part of the complaint Uncle B was that the H acted negligently toward the sale of the flat. the fos says they didn't; accepting a valuation out of two (way below original borrowed amount) and selling for only 1k less within an acceptable time....

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes, I think the letters are fine.

 

In the 1990's properties were being sold for much less than the market price. A few people I know, handed in their keys when they could not afford the payments. The houses were sold for tens of thousands below the prices they had paid. But what they did, was come to an arrangement to pay a full & final settlement based on what they could afford at the time.

 

If you remember, the Tories made a complete mess of the economy after the ERM debacle. Mortgage interest rates went up to 15%. This is partly why Labour won with a landslide in 1997.

[perplexedofdorset]

Ok, tomorrow I shall get the letters off,

1st class recorded as they are with a Dear Sir and yours faithfully at either end....

I shall log in in the morning just to see if there are any other suggestions/amendments...ok?

[sillygirl1]

Don't forget the 'I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS ALLEGED DEBT

 

bit as well....

[ScarletPimpernel]

Most of the people working in FOS came from the financial sector, so their apparent partiality is hardly surprising. Just like some District Judges, they are easily convinced by the industry's oily reps that financial institutions don't make mistakes.

[perplexedofdorset]

Silly girl...where would i put that disclaimer???

 

Ok, here are the letters that are about to wing their way to the FOS and the Halifax.....

Any suggestions, amendments please let me know as soon as.........

 

I know its boring re reading the same thing again and again so I have highlighted the changes in purple...

Firstly to the FOS......

 

Thank you for your letter of the 5th April which, due to the Easter holidays, I have only just received. We are understandably upset over your initial decision and are not prepared to accept it. We believe that you have failed to understand our complaint in that the contact and payments did not originate from my husband, the mortgage holder.

You say in your letter that you have enclosed copies of the Halifax’s internal contact notes and list of payments for us but these failed to materialize; do you think you could send these on to us please?

 

I suspect they are the same as those we have already received from the Halifax and am therefore at a loss to understand your ruling, as these do not constitute proof that my husband made any of these contacts or payments. The Halifax admitted to us in their letter of 10th February 2012 that they are unable to provide evidence from whom these payments and admittances of debt originated, which underlines our point that although some payments have been made toward the alleged debt, they did not originate from my husband, the mortgage holder.

 

Another point to take into account is that between the two separate lists of payments received toward the alleged debt provided, neither correlate. Each list showing different dates, amounts and total amounts paid. Surely this shows a lack of accuracy on the part of the Halifax and its contractors. Couple these discrepancies with the Halifax’s inability to provide evidence of the source of the payments and we find their allegations of contact with my husband to be highly suspect.

 

We have asked, for the third time, for the Halifax to provide us with evidence from whom these payments and contacts originated and as soon as we receive them will be in touch.

Yours faithfully

 

Encl: Duplicate of letter to Halifax.

 

and to the Halifax.......

 

Following the FOS’s initial decision in this case, I am asking for the full and unredacted details of the alleged payments that seem to have been made available to them; including, but not limited to: the exact date and time the alleged payments were made, the location where the alleged payments were made, the name of the Bank or Building Society receiving the alleged payments and the name of the person making those alleged payments. Further and in the same terms the exact sum of each alleged payment and when it was apparently received by the Halifax, and how or at which branch it was apparently credited to this account at the Halifax.

 

I have asked for these details before; from Shoosmiths on the 8th August 2011 and from yourselves on the 19th September 2011 and then again on the 13th January 2012, at which point you said were unable to provide me with that information.

 

If you are unable to provide the information requested before the end of this week 15th April 2012, you are to notify me immediately and in any case you to confirm receipt of these instructions within 48 hours, as I am under a time constraint from the FOS.

 

Please note that this alleged debt is now in serious dispute with your Organisation.

Edited April 11, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[unclebulgaria67]

Both letters seem ok to me.

 

I think the Halifax have probably provided the same system information of payments to the FOS as they sent to you for the SAR. But Halifax have probably explained that these payments cannot be for anything else, other than payments from the mortgage holder. The FOS have obviously just accepted this.

 

Until you have the evidence from the Halifax about the payments, it is difficult to say how this will now proceed.

 

It will just be one step at a time. The difficult bit for Halifax will be the payments made to DLC, as they may not be able to get hold of the precise details of the payments.

[perplexedofdorset]

Right Uncle B,

shall I go with the letters as they are...or add the' I do not acknowledge'....bit, but where????

Top / bottom????

 

Ok as Tempus ever Fugit's I have put the I do not acknowledge this alleged debt as a stand alone heading at the top of both letters...hope that is right???

 

Off to the Post Office...Hi Ho Hi Ho its off to town I go....

Edited April 11, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[dx100uk]

use it as the title

at the very top.

 

dx

[Dougal16T]

Morning all, and especially Perplexed,

 

This is my recommended letter to the Halifax...my alterations are in blue.

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOURSELVES OR ANY OTHER COMPANY OR PERSON.

 

Following the FOS’s initial decision in this case, I am asking you for the full and unredacted details of the alleged payments that are alleged to have been made to the Halifax; including, but not limited to: the exact date and time the alleged payments were made, the location where the alleged payments were made, the name of the Bank or Building Society receiving the alleged payments and the name of the person making those alleged payments. Further and in the same terms the exact sum of each alleged payment and when it was apparently received by the Halifax, and how or at which branch it was apparently credited to this account at the Halifax.

 

I have asked for these details before; from Shoosmiths on the 8th August 2011 and from yourselves on the 19th September 2011 and then again on the 13th January 2012, at which point you said were unable to provide me with that information.

 

If you are unable to provide the information requested before the end of this week 15th April 2012, you are to notify me immediately and in any case you are to confirm receipt of these instructions within 48 hours, as I am under a time constraint from the FOS.

 

Please note that this alleged debt is now in serious dispute with your Organisation, and the FOS have also been notified of this fact.

 

Best wishes

 

Dougal