Help! Husband's 18year old mortgage debt landed on our doorstep today. I'm terrified.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

And you have a good weekend too:madgrin:

[perplexedofdorset]

Hi Guys,

 

Well the FOS have responded with a 'standard letter' last week (sorry I've been distracted what with the funeral, waiting for an op and general Januaritis).

 

They thank my OH and I for our correspondence, 'received safely' ( isn't that nice? ) on the **** and it may be up to 4 weeks before they come back to us.

 

that seems a lot quicker than people on here were advising me??? do you think?

 

All good????

 

Anyway the complaint has been lodged so that's good isn't it?

[unclebulgaria67]

You will have to remain very patient with the FOS. They will contact the Halifax notifying them of the complaint and ask for their information to consider the matter. So if they have this in four weeks time, they might start to look into it. From what I understand, unless the issue is very straightforward, you won't have any outcome for months. I have not been through the process, but people tell me that the FOS have a conveyor belt system, where the complaint file gets passed up the line. It can take some cases over a year for them to come to a conclusion. I have a feeling that because the mortgage debt issue goes back to 1994 and there are some complex issues (the way Halifax have handled it throughout) to decide on, that you won't hear anything definitive for atleast 6 months.

 

Atleast this should provide a period of peace without Shoosmiths and Halifax chasing you !!!

 

Keep your chin up.

UB

[perplexedofdorset]

thanks UB

 

Have you heard of my other woes?

do you know anyone who can advise on wills and probate?

 

Hello Brig? are you ok?

[unclebulgaria67]

Woes, don't we all have them? Had my fair share, now looking for a lucky lottery win to buy myself a nice island somewhere hot and sunny.

 

Re Wills/Probate. Not my area. See a solicitor. Some of the charities have helpful guides and community legal services have a legal helpline.http://www.legalservices.gov.uk/civil.asp

[perplexedofdorset]

when you find your island, can i come and visit????

[unclebulgaria67]

when you find your island, can i come and visit????

 

Only if you are a bricklayer with experience of building sea walls and houses on stilts.

 

I just had a look and found an island for $55k. http://www.caribbeanislandbrokers.com/islands-for-sale/Little-Monkey-Caye

 

They call it Little Monkey Caye. More like Little Wet Monkey Caye. No wonder it is cheap, as it appears to be under water most of the time.

 

If you contact Jonny Depp, I think he has a much bigger private island somewhere in the Caribbean. You can get up to some pirate malarkey with him, as he seems to enjoy dressing up. With you being from Dorset, I expect that you already have the pirate costume !

[perplexedofdorset]

oh don't get me on johnny depp...swoon! and i here hes newly available!!! sigh!

 

as for building expertise, you could borrow my other half, whilst you Johnny and I laze on the beach sipping a cold....(insert preferred refreshment)

 

sigh!

[perplexedofdorset]

Hi there everyone,

so today a letter from the H, saying they

 

' have been made aware of our complaint (to the FOS ???) via SS's. '

But surely we complained about their (SS's) behaviour to the H before??

(well we had a similar letter and leaflet though they wrote back saying they couldn't uphold it)

 

they say the complaint has been refered to them by SS's as their 'internal complaints procedure has not yet been exhausted'

they enclose a leaflet and tell us our concerns will be dealt with asap

 

So guys, this is all normal and bog standard...yes???

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes standard stuff, but I think the Halifax letter suggests that SS's have been in the driving seat with the chasing of this debt. I presume on Halifax records it shows that SS's are the current handlers of the account, hence why Halifax are saying the FOS have come via SS's. Not that it matters, as I think Halifax will have to take the account back to deal with it, until the complaint is resolved.

 

I suspect that Halifax will tell the FOS that the complaint they were dealing with has not been exhausted and that they don't understand why you have gone to the FOS. The point is that the Halifax were dismissive of the complaint, did not provide information when requested and have been slow in dealing with every letter received. So you were entitled to believe that Halifax were just dragging the matter out. The FOS now that they have got the complaint, will I am sure have a look through the paperwork and ensure the complaint is now dealt with properly. The whole reason of going to the FOS, is that there is now someone independent seeing that the complaints process is followed and that all information is available to be reviewed.

 

Wait for the FOS to come back to you in a few weeks time, which will hopefully see them start to take the complaint forward. You probably won't get anything in the way of a decision, but you may receive a response with information that you requested from the Halifax in your last letter to them. Now that the FOS are involved, I would expect Halifax to start answering every question that is raised with them.

 

Have a good weekend.

[rdm2006]

MCOB (Mortgage Code of Business - FSA regulation) may also help (or be worth quoting to FOS at least) so heres a link

 

MCOB

 

This will take you directly to the bit about shortfalls

[perplexedofdorset]

Thanks UB (and rdm2006, or may i call you TinTin?)

 

what i really to come out of all this is the H and SS's to say we're sorry we were wrong to pursue this and put you through all this stress.

we are discharging (is that the right word?) the debt and wont be bothering you anymore......

 

oh god! I'm awake! D'oh!

 

Do you think that all this letter writing will get this outcome?????

 

or am i , as my OH so often says, living in cloud cuckoo land!

[unclebulgaria67]

I would not wish to predict the outcome, as I think that would be way above my level of knowledge. I presume that the FOS has access to a lot more information about these issues and will look at what the Halifax provide.

 

Think the big issues are 1) Delays between valuation in 08/94 and sale of property in 07/98, 2) The time it has taken them to chase the shortfall from 98 to 2011, which one would think would be too long. Given the stance of the CML which the FSA accepted, it could be seen as unfair to expect repayment 13 years after the house was sold or nearly 17 years after the mortgage was defaulted on.

 

I hope for the outcome that you want, but we will have a long wait to find out. I don't think you will hear anything much for a few months, even relating to a provisional outcome. From what I understand the FOS will provide a provisional decision, which can then be appealed. This is two way, so if they find in your favour, the Halifax will have a right to respond. And you of course have a right to appeal if the provisional decision is not to uphold the complaint. It can take a long time to get a final outcome.

[perplexedofdorset]

thanks UB,

whatever you say reassures in some way!

 

will let you know when they get back to us!

[perplexedofdorset]

Hi there Guys

 

Well today we received a large recorded delivery packet from the H.

I'm scared.

 

My OH okayed my opening it (he works away) and there is a two page letter from the mortgage recovery team and copies of documentation, some of which i have seen and some new:

 

the letter opens with how sorry they are that we are dissatisfied with their service (yes leave us alone!), recaps our requests for information in the last letter and then provides the following answers:

 

A) they are unable to provide sort code, account number from where the alleged payments were received, but encloses Direct Legal and Collections case notes (this is new info) and list of debtor payments (received these last year)

 

B) explains that the H fulfilled its legal obligation to obtain best price by appointing a fully qualified solicitor and local estate agent to value property,

 

C) then explains the H scrutinise these reports to establish a marketing strategy setting the initial asking price, with quarterly reviews implementing periodic adjustments to asking price, where considered necessary, to ensure a sale is effected as soon as reasonably possible which is the interests of both H and mortgagor Who is the mortgagor, my OH, (though he had by then handed the keys back) or the mortgage company???

 

D) states that the two valuations were conducted on the 6th and 7th September 1994 and encloses them (we had these reports previously but in my letter ask why one valuation was taken in June and one in sept. looking at them that might be a mix up on my behalf as the date on the fax copy s transcribed as 09/06/1994 which to my good old English mind means 9th of June but i can see how it could be a dreadful Americanisation and be 6th of September...D'oh!)

 

E) states that the property was repossessed in August 1994 and sold in September 1995...yet SS state in their letter 06/01/12 that it was sold in July 1998 ?????

The completion statement states date of sale as 19/07/1995...so three different dates to play with there.

 

F) encloses a breakdown of all credits and debits on the mortgage account.(there are pages and pages of little printed figures for this (I think) and I have no idea Where, what, how or who to do with them...)

 

G) states that they are happy that debt recovery commenced within 6 years of the date of sale and contact has been made through our appointed legal representatives Guys this bit really scares me.....

 

H) encloses completion statement (already received last year)

 

I) confirms a claim was made against the mortgage indemnity insurance and they received £16,055.44 from Sun Alliance.

(Am I being thick here but why are they chasing my OH when they sold for £22k and received £16K from these guys...so that's £38k on a property their solicitor and estate agent valued at £23k ???????????????????????

Even if they wanted to get back their original loan amount (£41,500) it still doesn't account for why they are chasing my OH for £26569... in fact if my rough calculations are right, without any mortgage payments or alleged arrears payments being taken off the original loan, then I make the shortfall £3,445..... additionally the alleged payments made by my OH total £3,700!? now im really confused..)

 

J) States property didn't require further valuation as was sold in July 1995 (so must have been a typo on their previous sale date mentioned above???)

 

K) states property was placed on market 9 Sept 1994 and remained there til June 1995

 

L) states property was marketed bt Halifax property services and was eventually auctioned.

 

M) states no works, apart from general clean and clear and decommission of heating system, were carried out.

 

O) states property was regularly inspected and garden maintenance undertaken.

 

They then apologise for the delay in replying to our letters (have they taken guidance from my husband...doing something he knows I don't like and then apologising.... hahhahhahhaa) and trusts that the info provided this time answers the queries we may have.

 

Interestingly in the last paragraph, they make reference to my OH's alleged offer of £1k in full and final payment,(oh yeah, we have the odd grand down the back of the sofa, i'll just go and fish it out!), saying they would be willing to consider it if we complete the enclosed financial analysis???

What does that mean...I have looked through the enclosed items and cant find any such 'financial analysis'

I also strongly suspect it is a con...tell us where you work and how much you earn and then we will hit you for a payment from earnings type thing.....nasty Halifax!

 

they end by repeating about the complaints procedure and how keen they are to resolve our concerns (yeah right) and say that if we would like they will provide details of how to contact the FOS...don't theses people know we have already done that???

Finally they say if they don't hear from us in the next 8 weeks they will assume we are happy.

 

 

So there we go....Any ideas what to do with it...(apart from lighting the woodburner! hahaha:flame:

 

Oh by the way....Happy Valentines Day Halifax!

Edited February 14, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[unclebulgaria67]

 

 

 

A) they are unable to provide sort code, account number from where the alleged payments were received, but encloses Direct Legal and Collections case notes (this is new info) and list of debtor payments (received these last year) Not helpful to them, as these payments cannot be proved to be from your OH. Plus a long time has passed since these alleged payments stopped. It would be up to the FOS to look at the information and make a judgement based on what they can fathom from it.

 

B) explains that the H fulfilled its legal obligation to obtain best price by appointing a fully qualified solicitor and local estate agent to value property, . Well the H may think they have fulfilled its legal obligation, but that is only their opinion. Others may disagree.

 

C) then explains the H scrutinise these reports to establish a marketing strategy setting the initial asking price, with quarterly reviews implementing periodic adjustments to asking price, where considered necessary, to ensure a sale is effected as soon as reasonably possible which is the interests of both H and mortgagor Who is the mortgagor, my OH, (though he had by then handed the keys back) or the mortgage company??? Mortgagor would be mortgage account holders noted on the mortgage at the time. H and your OH would still be joint owners of the property, until H have taken up sole legal ownership. H would have a legal duty to protect your OH's interest.

 

D) states that the two valuations were conducted on the 6th and 7th September 1994 and encloses them (we had these reports previously but in my letter ask why one valuation was taken in June and one in sept. looking at them that might be a mix up on my behalf as the date on the fax copy s transcribed as 09/06/1994 which to my good old English mind means 9th of June but i can see how it could be a dreadful Americanisation and be 6th of September...D'oh!)

 

E) states that the property was repossessed in August 1994 and sold in September 1995...yet SS state in their letter 06/01/12 that it was sold in July 1998 ?????

The completion statement states date of sale as 19/07/1995...so three different dates to play with there. I thought that when you looked at the sale prices shown online, that it showed a sale price of £22k in 1998 ? So was the sale in 1995 or 1998 ?

 

F) encloses a breakdown of all credits and debits on the mortgage account.(there are pages and pages of little printed figures for this (I think) and I have no idea Where, what, how or who to do with them...) Let the FOS look at these to see if there is anything to be reviewed. This issue is whether the H can still legally and fairly ask your OH for the shortfall, given the circumstances.

 

G) states that they are happy that debt recovery commenced within 6 years of the date of sale and contact has been made through our appointed legal representatives Guys this bit really scares me..... Well again, this is only their opinion. This is still subject to review by the FOS and you will have to wait to see what happens.

 

H) encloses completion statement (already received last year)

 

I) confirms a claim was made against the mortgage indemnity insurance and they received £16,055.44 from Sun Alliance.(am I being thick here but why are they chasing my OH when they sold for £22k received £16K from these guys..so that's £38k on a property they valued at £23k ???????????????????????

now im confused..) I suspect that H under the terms of the Insurance have to chase for the full amount of the shortfall and would have to pay money back to Sum Alliance, if they make any recovery of the shortfall.

 

J) States property didn't require further valuation as was sold in July 1994 (so must have been a typo on their previous sale date mentioned above???) Well land registry will know when the property was sold. If it turns out the property was sold on 1998 and not 1995, this would put H in an difficult position.

 

K) states property was placed on market 9 Sept 1994 and remained there til June 1995

 

L) states property was marketed bt Halifax property services and was eventually auctioned.

 

M) states no works, apart from general clean and clear and decommission of heating system, were carried out.

 

O) states property was regularly inspected and garden maintenance undertaken.

 

They then apologise for the delay in replying to our letters (have they taken guidance from my husband...doing something he knows I don't like and then apologising.... hahhahhahhaa) and trusts that the info provided this time answers the queries we may have.

 

Interestingly in the last paragraph, they make reference to my OH's alleged offer of £1k in full and final payment,(oh yeah, we have the odd grand down the back of the sofa, i'll just go and fish it out!), saying they would be willing to consider it if we complete the enclosed financial analysis???

What does that mean...I have looked through the enclosed items and cant find any such 'financial analysis'

I also strongly suspect it is a con...tell us where you work and how much you earn and then we will hit you for a payment from earnings type thing.....nasty Halifax! The H are obviously looking for a way out of this and if your OH provided details of his financial position, they would consider a full and final settlement. They have to do this so it looks like they are trying to resolve, but it is not really the right time to be making such an offer. Wait for the FOS to look at the complaint first and see what happens.

 

they end by repeating about the complaints procedure and how keen they are to resolve our concerns (yeah right) and say that if we would like they will provide details of how to contact the FOS...don't theses people know we have already done that???

Finally they say if they don't hear from us in the next 8 weeks they will assume we are happy.

 

 

So there we go....Any ideas what to do with it...(apart from lighting the woodburner! hahaha:flame:

 

Some answers in RED above. Just send them an acknowledgement letter back, saying that you will review the information they have sent and will wait for the FOS to come back to you, as they have previously indicated. Advise them that you are happy for the FOS to deal with the complaint as already registered and ask that they also provide the FOS with the same information, so they can also review.

 

After sending the acknowledgement, you can then make enquiries with land registry to find out whether the house was sold in 1995 or 1998. If you find out it was sold in 1998, you can then inform the H and FOS of this, asking for an explanation.

 

Remember that the FOS said that they will come back to you, so wait for them to do so. The FOS process takes many months to complete and you will have opportunity to query information/decisions as it goes forward. From what I have seen, the FOS make preliminary findings and then each side has opportunity to go back to them.

[perplexedofdorset]

hello Uncle B,

 

how reassuring to know you are still out there...

 

I have rechecked sold prices and its definitely £22k in July 1995....sorry for any inconvenience my dodgy eyesight and confused grey cells have caused!

 

I will do as you say above, send a letter to the H acknowledging receipt and asking them to send copies of the enclosed items to the FOS...should I mention that there was no financial analysis thingymy enclosed to the H?

 

and i will send a copy of the letter to the FOS, stating that I have asked the H to send the copies to them (really cant afford the paper, ink and postage to send them myself!)

 

and then.....will i calm myself down with a nice cup of tea...or a cold glass of white wine?

 

Thank you Uncle B, and Happy Valentines to you....

[unclebulgaria67]

Up to you. You could add a PS at the end of the letter, just stating that no financial analysis form was enclosed, however, as a complaint is to be reviewed by the FOS, this is not relevant at the current time anyway.

 

You could always beat the OH up with the Halifax paperwork, as a happy Valentines to him ! Only joking !!

[perplexedofdorset]

hahhahahaha

 

Its a good idea tho, considering it totally ruined my day...as these letters always do....

 

Nah, he's been good to me this year, considering how ill I've been and my dad and all... I'll just send him sweet wishes.

 

I'll take your advice about the financial thingymy...not to mention it.

 

Thank you Uncle B

[perplexedofdorset]

This is the letter to the Halifax...could you take a shuffty....

 

 

Ref: **********

Thank you for your letter of the 10th February which I received this morning. I will review the information you have sent whilst I wait for the FOS to come back to me.

I am happy for the FOS to deal with my complaint, which was acknowledged on the 18th January 2012. Please could you provide them with copies of the items you enclosed with your last letter so they can review the information. The Financial Ombudsman’s Reference number for this complaint is **********.

Do you think anything else is needed, should I ask why they have screwed up the dates for the sale of the property? or keep that for another day...(sneaky)

Edited February 14, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[perplexedofdorset]

letter to the FOS

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Ref: *****

 

Please find enclosed a copy of a letter received today from the Halifax and a copy of my reply. I have confirmed that I am happy for you to deal with my complaint and trust they will furnish you with the relevant copies of the information they sent me.

 

I typed both mine and my OH's names at the bottom, as I am officially dealing with it...

but in the letters to the H I have just typed my OH's name ...do you think that is alright?

[unclebulgaria67]

Do you think anything else is needed, should I ask why they have screwed up the dates for the sale of the property? or keep that for another day...(sneaky)

 

Yes I think I would just send the letter as is. Take a bit of time to review what they have sent and if you then want to send another letter asking about date screw up, that is up to you. Personally I would leave it and when the FOS write back to you, this is something you can raise as one of the issues you have. It undermines Halifax's case, if they have been all over the place with the information.

[perplexedofdorset]

thank you UncleB,

 

that's what i thought...how can you be so vindictive when you cant even get the date of the sale of the property right....M'Lud!!!

 

In that vein, mistakes in the info counting against them, the case report from the debt collectors have lots of notes...do any discrepancies in them count, names addresses, times he couldn't have been where they state he was ...I haven't read through and deciphered it all yet but I know they have the name of his wife wrong in one instance...just wondering as I seem to remember that if a police summons is incorrect in any way it voids it or something???

 

What about signing the name thing???

 

I'll get those posted tomorrow, do you think recorded to the fos ? or both?

Edited February 14, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[unclebulgaria67]

If some of the details are wrong then it does not help them. It casts a shadow over all information, as to whether it is reliable.

 

Just print name and send by normal post. It is only an acknowledgement letter.

[perplexedofdorset]

thanks