Help! Husband's 18year old mortgage debt landed on our doorstep today. I'm terrified.

[perplexedofdorset]

they gave us on 16/9/11 a debtors payments list.

last payment...apparently... July 2000.

[debbbbsy]

Have you questioned the authenticity of this statement. Its one thing to just show a payment, they need to prove it. How convenient that they come up with a date that falls just within the 12 years.

 

Who made the payment ? Was it a cheque or Debit card ? They need to provide proof.

[unclebulgaria67]

they gave us on 16/9/11 a debtors payments list.

last payment...apparently... July 2000.

 

Not been on here much recently. But I think the next step is to gain proof that the payments were from your OH. Ask for the sortcode/account number or card details used for the payments. If they can't prove that payments were from him, they are stuffed.

 

In regard to the valuation, this is something you should check. I find it a little odd that the sale price is exactly the same as the valuation. Is the £22k the reserve amount that Halifax put on the property as the minimum they would accept for it and they sold it for the minimum ? Halifax should have provided copies of the valuations and evidence of the sale process, as I think they would need to be able to provide you with these. Suggest that you ask for copies of everything. Dispute everything you can. Ask them to provide a full breakdown of the interest calculation.

 

Mortgage indemnity guarantee Insurance used to be taken out by lenders to cover shortfalls in the event of them losing money. It is possible that they may have already recovered part of the loss using any Insurance that they had. The Insurance is similar to the way Insurance companies will take out reinsurance to cover risk, so they are not totally exposed to 100% of the risk if anything really bad were to happen.

 

So that it the advice. Query everything you can about what they have sent. Think about the ongoing complaint and whether you can now take this to the FOS, as the matter has not been resolved so far. When you ask them for the information, make it clear to them that you are unhappy with the way the complaint has been handled to date and that you would like to proceed to the FOS. Ask them for confirmation that they have logged the complaint on their systems, the date they logged it and for their final response in writing with the information required, so that you can take it forward with the FOS.

 

In regard to the interest amount, remember that due to the Tories ERM mess, interest went up to 15% during some points in the early 90's and many people lost their homes. A relative of mine had the same thing happen and they managed to negotiate a full settlement of a £30k debt for about £2k.

 

Hope that you are feeling a bit better. Keep your chin up and remember that due to the age of the debt that Halifax may not have the quality of information that will help them take this forward beyond writing letters. You just have to make sure you keep on top of it, be as awkward as possible and get a complaint into the FOS asap. While a complaint is ongoing with the FOS, I don't think the Halifax could take this to court. But you have to register the complaint with the FOS first. If Halifax did start any court action, then FOS would then not get involved.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi hope you are feeling better!!

Does not the council of mortgage

lenders code of parctice say that

there members should no pusue

debts after six years have elapsed

with no payment?

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi hope you are feeling better!!

Does not the council of mortgage

lenders code of parctice say that

there members should no pusue

debts after six years have elapsed

with no payment?

 

Brig

 

I think the Halifax are being sneeky with that. The CML code only applied from 2000 I think and the Halifax have said it does not apply to mortgages taken out before this. They are saying that the last payment was made in 2000, so they can legally take action to recover the debt for 12 years after that payment, which would be sometime this year. My thoughts are that Perplexed OH needs to question absolutely everything they have sent, ask for proof that they payments came from him and then bang in a complaint to the FOS about the way Halifax have handled the account. That should take it beyond the statute barred date, as the FOS could take ages to look at the complaint. I don't think the Halifax would take this to court, if the FOS were actively looking into the matter, as I am not sure how any Judge would look at that. They would probably take a dim view of the way Halifax have acted.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I agree, there is something that seems very

''under handed'' about the conduct of the whole

thing.

[unclebulgaria67]

I agree, there is something that seems very

''under handed'' about the conduct of the whole

thing.

 

The Halifax who are now part of Lloyds and owned partly by the government, were I think reviewing all their accounts, to see if there were any debts they could recover. It could be that this is one of many that they are trying to recover on, having found it on an audit. I think this must be the case, as Halifax still had it on their books, when in normal circumstances, I would have thought it would have been sold on years ago. I don't really know much about the way Halifax operate and whether it is the norm for them to have any debts on their books for nearly 12 years without any payment.

[perplexedofdorset]

Ask for the sortcode/account number or card details used for the payments. If they can't prove that payments were from him, they are stuffed.

 

Hi UB...nice to see you back.

 

In a letter to SS's dated 19/9/11, I asked for the source of their alleged payments; account details etc to no response.

I have also remarked that the letter/emails they purport to have come from my oh which they said admitted liability and a proposal for final payment of £1k could have been written by anybody, at any time as the letter was unsigned.

 

is there a template, and address, for a complaint to the FOS on here some where???

 

in the letter there are copies of the valuations, from Halifax (9/6/94) and A.N.Other (no obvious date, though dated by Halifax as received 8/9/94)

My OH wonders how they valued and lent £41 1/2K on a property in 1990 that they later state as general condition 'poor' with condensation/damp problems and movement in '94 with a valuation of £23,500 ????????

 

So writing letters of complaint///scary!!!!

Any ideas anyone???

[rdm2006]

I don't think that it matters when the mortgage was taken out as far as the Council of Mortgage Lenders is concerned (although not 100% sure) would MCOB help at all with being treated unfairly

 

in fact asking the council itself may be an idea if its possible

[unclebulgaria67]

To make an FOS complaint is easy. http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm

 

With the FOS complaint you would advise the FOS that Halifax were advised of your complaint in September or whenever you first raised a complaint with them and that they have been stalling you ever since, providing any information long after you have written to them. They have written to your OH in 2011 regarding an alleged mortgage debt from 1995, without providing any substantive proof of the debt still being legally enforceable, even though proof of alleged payments made in 2000 has been requested from the Halifax, that the Halifax have failed to follow the CML code of conduct they accepted under FSA agreement and that Halifax appear not to have followed a process dealing with the matter to the detriment of the original mortgage holder.

 

When the FOS receive any complaint, they will go back to the Halifax and ask them for their side to the story. It is not a one shot process and your OH will be able to come back to the FOS with further information when he wants to. It is a long drawn out process, which is in your interest, as the FOS will delve into all aspects of the complaint.

 

There is no template letter to Halifax.

 

Just write.

 

I write further to your letter dated xxxxx and require the following information from you.

 

1) Proof of the payments your allege were made on xxxxxx dates. This should include the sort code account number or payment card details of the payee.

2) You have alleged that correspondence was received by you admitting liability to the alleged debt. To date you have not provide any copies of any evidence to support this.

3) In regard to both the valuation and sales process concerning the mortgaged property, you have not provided a copy of the guidelines that you were required to follow at the time to show that you acted in a totally diligent fashion. Please supply a copy of the guidelines that were in place at the time.

4) I am confused by the dates of the valuation, with one obtained in June 1994 and a further valuation obtained in September 1994. Why were these valuations not obtained at the same time ? Why the delay between the valuations ?

5) if there are any discrepancies between valuation details, question any differences.

6) Please supply a full breakdown of the interest payments charged on the account during the whole period of the mortgage.

7) Please supply a full breakdown of all payments received during the whole period of the mortgage.

8) You state a total loss amount of £29,939.89. Please provide a full breakdown of this amount.

Etc etc ect. Have a look through the documents to see what information you might reasonable request.

 

Please note that I made it clear on xx September 2011, that I was looking to pursue a complaint with the FOS. This matter has now dragged on and each time information is requested there is a considerable time delay before it is received. I therefore intend to now register a complaint with the FOS, being that you failed to follow the FOS complaint process and 8 weeks have elapsed without resolution.

 

Something like that. Just tweek it and add as you want. BUT DON'T DELAY GETTING THE FOS COMPLAINT IN. DO THAT NOW WITH THE INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE TO HAND. THE FOS DON'T EXPECT THE CONSUMER TO HAVE FULL KNOWLEDGE OF THESE MATTERS. YOUR COMPLAINT IS ABOUT THE WAY HALIFAX HAVE HANDLED THE WHOLE MATTER.

[perplexedofdorset]

UB, you are worth your weight in Gold.

I shall draft this tomorrow and, if i may, post it on here for you,r and the others, scrutiny.

I shall then get copies off post haste, recorded etc.

See you all in the morning!

[perplexedofdorset]

To make an fos complaint is easy

 

should i download and fill in a form or write a letter?

the same letter as to Halifax?

or should i send a copy of the filled out form to Halifax for their records?

or just advise them I have made a formal complaint?

 

Sorry for all the q,s just aware of the need to do it right!

[debbbbsy]

Begin by ringing the FOS and explaining the problem. They will log your call & give you a reference number. That way whenever you contact them, just by giving your name & address the person you speak to will be fully aware of the problem.

 

They will advise you to make an Official Complaint. Halifax then have a specific amount of time to deal with your complaint. I think its a week to confrm reciept and then a further month to answer you. They can ask for more time.

 

After that time, if its not resolved, you inform the FOS, and you make your complaint in writing. You'll wait about a month before they allocate you someone, then after that.......well how longs a piece of string...it can take up to a year.

[unclebulgaria67]

To make an fos complaint is easy

 

should i download and fill in a form or write a letter?

the same letter as to Halifax?

or should i send a copy of the filled out form to Halifax for their records?

or just advise them I have made a formal complaint?

 

Sorry for all the q,s just aware of the need to do it right!

 

Suggest that you print off the FOS form off, complete it with the info you have and enclose any copies of paperwork, including letters sent. Then send it off to the FOS. The FOS will tell Halifax that you have made a complaint, so you don't need to send Halifax a copy. Just tell Halifax in the letter you send that they have not resolved your complaint within required FOS timescales and have proceeded to take the complaint to the FOS.

[unclebulgaria67]

Debbbsy

 

Perplexed has already complained to Halifax back in September I believe (sometime last year, more than 8 weeks ago). They don't appear to be following the FOS set out complaints procedure timeline which is pretty poor, just answering letters after a long delay. So perplexed can go ahead and make the complaint now. They could phone, but as they have copies of paperwork to send anyway, they might as well just sent the form in.

[perplexedofdorset]

OK...Second time of writing....(Save, Bloody Save)

 

Thanks guys, so this is going to be a THICK letter!

Do i send my letters to SS's and H?

Their letters to me?

Or EVERYTHING?

 

I complained to SS's (on 19/9/11) which resulted in a letter from H on the 19/10/11 where they

 

Were 'sorry to here of (my OH's) dissatisfaction with the H'

refer us to the CML code where they 'state that the voluntary agreement (and 6 year time limit) does not affect anyone who has already been contacted by their lender'

As my OH 'entered into a payment agreement in 1996'[/b and [b]'the last payment received was in July 2000' they also state that my OH 'contacted their appointed representatives, the CIS by emails in November 2001, February 2002 and letter in June 2004', ....the H therefore has until June 2016 to pursue us and therefore we are stuffed!

 

In the same letter in response to my request for proofs as to who made the payments, they just say 'they were made to Direct Legal and Collections'

and they 'have information and various conversations that took place between you and also details of a standing order set up (by my OH)'

No sort codes, account numbers etc.

 

They finish by saying that in their 'letter of 11th October they sent us a leaflet about their complaints procedure' (True)

and they are'keen to resolve our concerns'

 

So guys......

Download, print and fill out the form for the FOS...

Send copies of all letters (or just some?????)

Recorded, First class....

Is that right?

 

Covering letter?

 

Help please.....I'm feeling scared here!

[martin g]

This stinks,

 

I see that the property had repossession granted in 8/94 but the property was not sold until 7/98, almost 4 years later.

What were Halifax doing with the house during this period, any property unoccupied for so long is bound to deteriorate and loose more value. In addition the interest is clocking up up over a 4 year period.

Halifax had a duty to market the property to acheive the best price and they have clearly not done this.

They could, of course, let the property during this period and any rent should be offset against your husbands liability.

I really think that this an aspect that you should demand further info. on

Martin g

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes I would still go ahead with the FOS complaint by completing their form and sending this with any documents you have. The FOS will look into all aspects and will take a long time to do so. Up to you how you send it to them. I would suggest first class, but get proof of posting from Post Office. Keep a copy of what you send to them. ( On the FOS form, put that the Halifax acknowledged the complaint on 19/10/11 and this has been ongoing since, but that you feel that the Halifax have not dealt with the complaint properly and each time you have written it has taken along time to get any response, Plus the Halifax have not supplied information requested to evidence information they have alluded to in their correspondence.)

 

In regard to Halifax, I would still send them the letter by recorded delivery as suggested yesterday, asking for more information. I would include a copy of the letter you send to the Halifax to the FOS, so they can see that correspondence is still ongoing.

 

The FOS will look into the CML code issue, as they will have more information on that. This won't be the first time that complaints have been made which touches on that. In the letter from Halifax it says that the CML does not apply to anyone already contacted by their lender. What is meant by this and what evidence do they have that your OH was contacted by them. Ask for evidence.

 

Ask for evidence of the emails sent to CIS (ask who CIS is ?) in Nov 01, Feb 02 and letter in June 04. Ask for proof of payments made to Direct Legal and Collections. They must have details of who made the standard order payments to them. Ask for this information. They mention conversations that took place between OH and DL&C, so ask for proof of that in the letter to Halifax.

 

Halifax keep referring to various information, but this is likely to just be notes on their records. Do they actually have the information on paper that is sufficient to take forward ? If they did, why don't they supply it ? Suggests that they don't have it.

 

Keep plugging away by making the complaint to the FOS and asking Halifax for the information you are entitled to have. This is not likely to be a quick process, as the FOS can take a long time.

 

Edit- In the complaint to the FOS and letter to Halifax, do also include what martin g has posted above. This is also information that needs to be looked into.

[perplexedofdorset]

Save bloody save!!!!!!

 

Ok, this is all getting horribly complicated and I know its important to get it right....

 

So I'm filling in their online form, which, when I'm done, I will print, copy, and send 1st class recorded.

A few simple questions....

 

Business who is responsible for your complaint?? SS's ???

Business who originally sold product or service you are complaining about?? H???

Kind of product or service you are complaining about?? Mortgage repossession???

Reference number?? the account number SS's use???

What your complaint is about??...This is what I've got so far...

 

Sorry Revision....

 

The Halifax, via their agents Shoosmiths, wrote to me on the 21st July 2011 regarding an alleged mortgage debt from 1995, without providing any substantive proof of the debt still being legally enforceable.

They advised that several payments had been made between the date of default and 2000 yet despite requesting proof that these alleged payments originated from myself; bank details,sort codes, account numbers etc. the Halifax, have so far failed to provide any substantative evidence.

I also have issue with how the Halifax could value a property they were happy to lend £41,5000.00 on in 1990 at a mere £23,500.00 in 1994, eventually selling for a paltry £22,000.00 nearly 4 years later!

What were they doing with the property during this period? Any property unoccupied for so long is bound to deteriorate and lose more value.

In failing to reply to my requests promptly the Halifax are therefore failing to follow the CML code of conduct they accepted under FSA agreement and they appear not to have followed a process dealing with the matter to my detriment. The Halifax were advised of my complaint on 19th September 2011 and they have been stalling ever since, providing any information long after it has been requested. '

 

UB, with any documents you have

Would that be copies of all letters or just their offers of evidence, ie transcripts of emails, the unsigned letter offering full and final payment, list of alleged payments etc?

 

Ask for evidence of the emails sent to CIS (ask who CIS is ?) in Nov 01, Feb 02 and letter in June 04. Ask for proof of payments made to Direct Legal and Collections.

I have the emails they are innocuous (?) and the letter is unsigned, As i said in response to their big bundle of proof they supplied on 16/9/11 they could have been written by anyone at any time. The payments received just showed a list of figures and numbers and could relate to Alaister Darlings Mastercard for all i know!!

Edited January 12, 2012 by perplexedofdorset

[perplexedofdorset]

UB...

You have alleged that correspondence was received by you admitting liability to the alleged debt. To date you have not provide any copies of any evidence to support this

i do have a copy of an unsigned letter offering £1000 as F&F payment, dated 29h June 2000,

[perplexedofdorset]

UB

You state a total loss amount of £29,939.89. Please provide a full breakdown of this amount

 

they did supply a completion statement in the last letter....???

[unclebulgaria67]

Business who is responsible for your complaint?? Halifax

Business who originally sold product or service you are complaining about?? Halifax

Kind of product or service you are complaining about?? Mortgage

Reference number?? Mortgage number should be on Halifax documents.

 

Shoosmiths contacted me on behalf of Halifax on 21st July 2011 regarding an alleged mortgage debt from 1995. After further correspondence on 19 September 2011, Shoosmiths advised Halifax of my complaint, but the Halifax did not ackowledge the complaint until 19 October 2011. Since this time I have found Halifax to be very dismissive of any complaint and whenever information has been requested from them, the information has been delayed or sent incomplete. I am not sure that the Halifax have actually followed the correct process regarding the handling of the complaint, as they have delayed replying to any correspondence and not acknowledged letters, when there has been delays in responding.

 

Halifax have advised that payments were made until June 2000, but when I have requested proof of these payments and how they were made they have not been forthcoming.

 

The Halifax claim that the CML code of conduct (they accepted under FSA agreement) regarding the pursuit of shortfalls following repossession, does not apply, as contact with the mortgage holder had been made. I am disputing this, given the delays in Halifax dealing with this matter. Firstly repossession was granted on August 1994, but the property was not sold until July 1998. Halifax then claim that contact was made with their representative CIS from 1996 to 2000 (?) but this is very unclear. Halifax claim that their representatives Direct Legal & Collections had received payments and a letter in June 2004, but have not been forthcoming with the details when requested. Given that the next contact was from Shoosmiths on 21st July 2011, I am disputing that Halifax are able to pursue this matter and that to do so given the history of the account is unfair.

 

Yes send the FOS the information (all relevant documents) that you have with the form. They will probably also obtain these from the Halifax when they look into it.

Edited January 12, 2012 by unclebulgaria67

[perplexedofdorset]

Hey Guys

 

There is a bit in the letter about mortgage indemnity...YAWN!!

but reading it is quite interesting.....

 

'Please note where there is a mortgage indemnity guarantee in place, which would have been a condition of lending,the only parties to the policy are our client (the H???) and their insurers.

In the event a claim is made on the policy all rights under the original agreement are subrogated (sic?) to the insurance company. Where applicable we are instructed to negotiate a settlement on behalf of both client (H??) and their insurers.'

 

can anyone translate this into English please?

[unclebulgaria67]

UB...

You have alleged that correspondence was received by you admitting liability to the alleged debt. To date you have not provide any copies of any evidence to support this

i do have a copy of an unsigned letter offering £1000 as F&F payment, dated 29h June 2000,

 

Unsigned letter from who ? From what address ? Is this a handwritten letter bearing your OH's normal handwriting or typed. Is the letter headed 'without prejudice'. What happened following this letter ? If the F&F was declined, why have Halifax not stated whether this offer was declined or not and provided a copy of the response.

[unclebulgaria67]

UB

You state a total loss amount of £29,939.89. Please provide a full breakdown of this amount

 

they did supply a completion statement in the last letter....???

 

Completion statement is just the last statement to summarise what is left, with all the various costs added. You want to have a FULL breakdown, not just a summary. How have all the figures on the completion statement been arrived at. Ask them.