Ingeus

[osdset]

If this new manager appears to be more cooperative, why not approach her for a "final response" - She may just be daft enough to comply, then you have all the pieces in place to go to the next stage.

Dunno about that, I think she was simply showing off.

[jasta11]

AManager 'Ah Mr Osdset it seems that whilst there are copious notes on the system stating do not contact this claimant again, no one has actually taken this on board, what I'll now do is remove your contact details from the system so that when the next letter gets generated we have nowhere to send it to, and we can't phone you about it!'

 

That bit is straight out of a Monty Python sketch 'The Ministry of Sending Letters to Nowhere'

[osdset]

That bit is straight out of a Monty Python sketch 'The Ministry of Sending Letters to Nowhere'

Which is why I was having such trouble keeping a straight face.

[Chester6]

I think Theresa difference between doing a job like WP staff and going out of your way to be derogatory to people or patronising

At my local one some staff were reasonable but still very fake as they acted likely outburst friend whilst others wantedto dictate your every move and one even called me a liar as he was too lazy to use the phone or walk give desks to his colleague

[Ingcredible]

Matt, any chance of one initial of this persons name. Intrigued to know who it is.!

[nexxusone]

Seetec's operation director contact details please, i'm in a very bad seetec center

[osdset]

Seetec's operation director contact details please, i'm in a very bad seetec center

 

 

Graham Martin, Chief Operating Director at Seetec - 07773 773102 [email protected]

 

Andrew Emerson, Executive Director at Seetec – 07977 002278 [email protected]

 

Mark Smith, Operational Director for Mandatory Work Activity, 07870 244087 [email protected]

 

Raymond Gray, Head of Quality at Seetec, 07885 881938, [email protected]

 

Enjoy!

[Twolips]

Hi Guys

 

I wonder if anyone can help me. Ingeus are trying to make my life hell i have had 4 visits to date the first 2 they were late and started threatening to sanction me straight away asking for personal details in an open office which i refused to give. On the the third visit they didn't even bother to turn up then they forgot me for 5 weeks,then i got a letter saying that i failed to attend the appointment when actually i turned up and even signed in the book.

 

At the last appointment i handed in the word document from refuted which outlines my rights in the hope they would think twice. I as told it was a load of nonsense and that i am only making their job harder!!.

 

So anyway now i have recieved another letter saying that i am being mandated to provide evidence of recent job search activity. I already provide this to the dwp its obvious their not trying to help me into work just screw me over.

 

So my question is:

 

Can someone tell me if i have to do this as in the letter i gave them it says:

 

If you wish me to undertake specific Jobsearch activity you must issue me with a Mandatory Activity Notification, if you want me to provide evidence of my jobsearch please note:

“A Work Programme provider may ask you to provide evidence of your job search as part of their support they give you but they cannot mandate you to provide it and you will not be sanctioned if you do not provide it”

From: DWP Central FoI Team – 28 February 2014

[9]

All evidence of my jobsearch is provided to the Jobcentre.

 

 

I only realized today about this as its on the back of the letter and so i have only 4 days to sort out a response to this.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Chester6]

They lie and dont always respect much

Refuted is correct

[jasta11]

If it's clearly stated in DWP rules that you don't have to do something then that's it; the Provider has to abide by it. We all know they argue it though, you're not alone in experiencing this sort of thing. Their contract with the DWP allows them a certain leeway to use their own methods within reason, but the Providers - and especially Ingeus - see this as 'you can do and say anything you want to the customers'. They can't.

 

The only reason Ingeus wants info about your job applications is so that they know who you've applied to and can dive in and claim payment if one of your applications is successful and you land the job. If they don't know who the employers are then they can't claim anything. Even if you find the job entirely by yourself, they'll still try and claim they 'helped you' get it. It's what they do.

 

If they want evidence of 'recent jobseach activity' show them the same stuff you show the JC adviser every two weeks; if it's good enough for the DWP then it's certainly good enough for the Work Program. Always remember - the DWP call the shots, not the WP.

 

Get everything in writing too. If you attend a WP interview get them to sign the appointment letter, saying you attended. The signing-in book is evidence but that can be altered in your absence - and I wouldn't put it past them to do it either. Might also be wise to start covertly recording all meetings too, if they're going to spout rubbish.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I think that is grossly unfair. You are dismissing people for doing a job and making them out to be slime. They have a job which i suspect most do with little training to the best of their ability. I know that in my area they are only trained in the areas they deal in so may well not understand ESA for example.

Please also remember that the pressure and sh1t flows downhill from the shareholders who like as not are your pension scheme if you are lucky enough to have one.

There is no absolutely need to be defensive....if Welfare To Work Clerks were qualified, they would have been able to secure jobs in the Real World, whereas they weren't, could not even get a job working in the Job Centre Plus Network, and otherwise had to make do with a sector that is frankly sub-prime to Call Centre.

 

If candidates wish to seek Professional Advice concerning Self Assessment, CV Design, Job Search etc, then they should seek a meeting with a Professional Careers Adviser.

[Chester6]

One Ingeus staff used to be an army sniper

 

Anyway - using refuted is excellent and I used to show them the same evidence as the jobcentre and they accepted it, it was pointless IMO to use their paper to show them evidence yet also show the sanction centre the same stuff

[Twolips]

Do you know where the DWP rules which cover this are as i would like to get a print out and take it to their manager.

Thanks

[RebeccaPidgeon]

One Ingeus staff used to be an army sniper

 

Anyway - using refuted is excellent and I used to show them the same evidence as the jobcentre and they accepted it, it was pointless IMO to use their paper to show them evidence yet also show the sanction centre the same stuff

Seriously ? Did they tell you this...or are they simply delusional, having spent a few hours playing Call of Duty ?

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Do you know where the DWP rules which cover this are as i would like to get a print out and take it to their manager.

Thanks

Hello Twolips and welcome to the site.

 

 

The DWP have rules covering all sorts of issues. Whether or not they abide by their own rules is questionable though.

 

 

If you could specify the particular issue that you wish to see rules or guidance on it would not be difficult to provide you with links and/or further details.

[TG70]

I've had three appointments with Ingeus so far. All three appointments it's had stated on the bottom of the letter "Your activities for your next appointment are....." and it goes on to say on each "to discuss your jobsearch activity along with agreed actions to date and confirming further agreed actions" Yet in all three appointments I've yet to have any kind of "discussion" with the person named on each of the letters.

 

First appointment I was rushed through paperwork and told to wait for the person my appointment was with "to become available" as it appeared there were three people booked in for the 10:30am appointment with the same person. I sat like a lemon until 11:15am when I was informed to do "job search" on the computer to which I would usually have done at home anyway and do a benefit calculation on the government website. At 11:30am the person I was due to see appeared and said to come back tomorrow at 10:30am and she'd have the "discussion" with me that we were supposed to have today.

 

Second appointment, I arrived in time next day and was told at 10:30am by the the person I'd supposed to be having this "discussion" with today that had carried over from yesterday that she was busy with someone else and to do a "job search" on the computer. I spent the next hour going through job websites (again which I'd have done at home anyway) at 11:25am I was told to fill out paperwork which was to record the jobs I'd applied for, which on the day was zero. Just before I left I was informed I would need to change my CV. I flatly said no way, as it had already been changed recently and the version I had now was getting more results with employers. Grudgingly the person I still hadn't had the interview with accepted this. I was printed off a new appointment for the following week. So day two and still no "discussion"

 

Third appointment, I arrived on time to have this "discussion" only to be directed by another person working there to do... yep you guessed it....a job search on the computer! 40 minutes later the person I was due this "discussion" with appeared and said out the blue that there was "cash made available for training" and then proceeded to rattle off information on the training that "had come up just that morning". I sat and listened to what she had to say but asked why I'd be interested in going on a course which had nothing to do with the field I was looking for work on. I declined as the training was for another field of work which I have absolutely no interest in getting into. I was then told "Well, I think it's time to change your career path and get into something else" to which I replied "I don't think so. I am not changing my career path to suit the government cash carrot dangling in front of Ingeus eyes." I was then told they'd send out a new appointment for me and was handed an A4 photocopied piece of paper to be completed and handed in next appointment headed and I jest you not!.....

 

"Tell me a little bit about you so when your not here I can submit you for a job I may feel suitable for you "

 

It goes onto ask a series of questions such as if i have a driving licence / access to a car / current benefit / sectors I will work in / won't work in.

 

I am flatly declining to fill out this paperwork as I am not having someone else "submit" me for jobs which I have no control over. Especially someone who can't even get the your / you're context correct in the laughable titled piece of photocopied A4 paper!

 

So to summarise my ongoing early Ingeus experience that's three appointments with Ingeus and a total of three hours. Already I am being told :-

 

1. To change my CV to the way THEY want it to appear

2. Change my career path to suit whatever THEY have lying around available

3. To fill in a form which gives them the right to submit me for jobs THEY feel is suitable for me.

 

The thing is, in between these Ingeus appointments I've signed on at the Job Centre and mentioned to my adviser there that it seems to be a complete waste of time as all I've done in three hourly appointments is three hours of job searches which I already do at home anyway, that they've told me to change three different things (CV, career path etc.) for their own benefit of collecting their cash from the Government and more alarmingly I've encountered two serious Date Protection breaches that I'd found Ingeus had breached with my (and other peoples) information already.

 

My Job centre adviser said that they have had a high number of complaints from people on Ingeus and that their hands are tied on doing anything as the contract is between the Government and the private company themselves but I was advised to buy a diary and write down every detail of everything that happens on each appointment and request that Ingeus photocopy every single piece of paperwork that I've signed so I have a copy too.

 

I'm sitting tight on the two serious breaches of Data Protection presently but it'll be in the open via a complaint to another body and not to Ingeus themselves when I get the first threat of a sanction.

 

Overall a waste of time, a waste of tax-payers cash and an organisation comically run. Helping nobody but their own business profit accounts.

[essexmat]

I feel for you, I, along with many on here have had to (and still are) suffering from dealing with these sales people - they care not about you one iota, only their bonuses and statistics. The sooner people realise this the better. They are in a world of their own and think that every job available will make you better off when in fact they do not consider travel costs, council tax liability and rent liability - they just want you as someone that they have 'engaged with and found work for'

 

As for your points:

 

1. To change my CV to the way THEY want it to appear

They tried to do this with me by taking off a lot of my work history and achievements, basically dumbing it down so they can get me to work for minimum wage when I was on £30k+ bonuses - sorry, not going to happen, done my own CV with professional help

2. Change my career path to suit whatever THEY have lying around available

As I said, anything will do for them, you could have been a management executive but as long as there is a job stacking shelves in Lidl (no disresepct to people that do) then you would be seen as working - sorry, not good for employee or employer with resent on both sides

3. To fill in a form which gives them the right to submit me for jobs THEY feel is suitable for me.

As many have said, DO NOT sign anything

 

Best of luck

[Chester6]

Ingeus is about targets like the jobcentre

Both don't care about your career

Both would see you in any job - no matter how irrelevant it is to your career path

[essexmat]

Ingeus is about targets like the jobcentre

Both don't care about your career

Both would see you in any job - no matter how irrelevant it is to your career path

 

Absolutely right. Just a shame the weaker client think they are bing helped, basically they are just taking the p*ss out of them. Yeah you, mr manager, go and do this job at minimum wage and be worse off - doesn't matter you will be worse off. [edited] (sorry if that is not allowed on here but that is what they are)

Edited September 17, 2014 by honeybee13
Pejorative word removed.

[jasta11]

This is why my own complaint letter ran to 4 full A4 pages when I left Ingeus. Exactly the same kind of stuff TG70 is enduring.

 

I blame the government more though for ever allowing this to happen in the first place; they're just as mercenary as Ingeus.

[essexmat]

This is why my own complaint letter ran to 4 full A4 pages when I left Ingeus. Exactly the same kind of stuff TG70 is enduring.

 

I blame the government more though for ever allowing this to happen in the first place; they're just as mercenary as Ingeus.

 

Oh I agree, a bit like the immigration debate - do not blame the ones who take advantage of it, blame the rule setters and governors - in this case DWP. They would have been better investing in JCP resources than private shameless companies. Who exactly do THEY answer to?

[Mr.P]

"Tell me a little bit about you so when your not here I can submit you for a job I may feel suitable for you "

 

I'm sitting tight on the two serious breaches of Data Protection presently but it'll be in the open via a complaint to another body and not to Ingeus themselves when I get the first threat of a sanction.

 

Overall a waste of time, a waste of tax-payers cash and an organisation comically run. Helping nobody but their own business profit accounts.

 

 

Take a selection of coloured pens and highlighters with you to your next "appointment". Do not be afraid of highlighting grammatical errors and spelling mistakes - Use a red pen to make corrections, and insist that the "adviser" retypes the offending document - I used to do this with an A4e "adviser" and he would visibly squirm in great discomfort when the red pen came out . He wouldn't say anything to dissuade me just in case the conversation was being recorded (which it was).

 

If you wish to pursue a DPA complaint, collect corroborating evidence first, and then refer it to the Information Commissioner's Office - Going via the DWP or following the Ingeus complaints process will achieve little and mark you as a "trouble maker".

[Cdaylight]

Yes, god forbid any of you ever used your energy to actually GET a job. Much better to just spend your time being keyboard warriors and bitchin'.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Ingeus as much as the rest of you - I went through two years of their crap. But I understood that if I want the free money then I have to jump through their hoops.

 

Why do you all seem so determined to find any excuse or broken protocol to bring them up on as if you are some sort of chess master? I honestly don't get it. If you don't like WP then get a job. If you can't get a job then ask yourself why? If it's because you are 'suffering' from 'Anxiety&Depression' then claim ESA and get out. If you can't convince your GP into writing you this New Age 'bad back' sick note, then either sign off or get a job?

 

Oh how outrageous, how dare I suggest such a thing. No, much better to slag off the system... But take an honest look in the mirror and think whether this negative energy could be better spent turned into a positive energy working for you? Bottom line is if you don't want to sign all the data protection forms, or turn up to interviews where people try to help you find work - then don't. All good. But if you expect money for nothing then, hmmmm, play the game. What's so outrageous about that?

 

(Either way, don't worry, once 'Antone' gets wind of this post it will be deleted. Just as sure as a DWP mandatory reconsideration. We are not a democracy. No free speech here lol

Edited September 17, 2014 by Cdaylight

[antone]

Yes, god forbid any of you ever used your energy to actually GET a job. Much better to just spend your time being keyboard warriors and bitchin'.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Ingeus as much as the rest of you - I went through two years of their crap. But I understood that if I want the free money then I have to jump through their hoops.

 

Why do you all seem so determined to find any excuse or broken protocol to bring them up on as if you are some sort of chess master? I honestly don't get it. If you don't like WP then get a job. If you can't get a job then ask yourself why? If it's because you are 'suffering' from 'Anxiety&Depression' then claim ESA and get out. If you can't convince your GP into writing you this New Age 'bad back' sick note, then either sign off or get a job?

 

Oh how outrageous, how dare I suggest such a thing. No, much better to slag off the system... But take an honest look in the mirror and think whether this negative energy could be better spent turned into a positive energy working for you? Bottom line is if you don't want to sign all the data protection forms, or turn up to interviews where people try to help you find work - then don't. All good. But if you expect money for nothing then, hmmmm, play the game. What's so outrageous about that?

 

(Either way, don't worry, once 'Antone' gets wind of this post it will be deleted. Just as sure as a DWP mandatory reconsideration. We are not a democracy. No free speech here lol

 

No need to put my name in scare quotes. But you miss the point of free speech. It means you can freely **** on your own rug, but not on ours.

[osdset]

Yes, god forbid any of you ever used your energy to actually GET a job. Much better to just spend your time being keyboard warriors and bitchin'.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Ingeus as much as the rest of you - I went through two years of their crap. But I understood that if I want the free money then I have to jump through their hoops.

 

Why do you all seem so determined to find any excuse or broken protocol to bring them up on as if you are some sort of chess master? I honestly don't get it. If you don't like WP then get a job. If you can't get a job then ask yourself why? If it's because you are 'suffering' from 'Anxiety&Depression' then claim ESA and get out. If you can't convince your GP into writing you this New Age 'bad back' sick note, then either sign off or get a job?

 

Oh how outrageous, how dare I suggest such a thing. No, much better to slag off the system... But take an honest look in the mirror and think whether this negative energy could be better spent turned into a positive energy working for you? Bottom line is if you don't want to sign all the data protection forms, or turn up to interviews where people try to help you find work - then don't. All good. But if you expect money for nothing then, hmmmm, play the game. What's so outrageous about that?

 

(Either way, don't worry, once 'Antone' gets wind of this post it will be deleted. Just as sure as a DWP mandatory reconsideration. We are not a democracy. No free speech here lol

 

Money for nothing? Maybe for those that have never paid a penny into the system it is, for the rest of us that in many cases spent all their working lives paying NI in the safe and sure knowledge that the safety net would catch us if we fell, feel differently. It's not free money, we contributed toward any benefits we might get.

 

We are also fairly disgruntled that we are expected to grovel cap-in-hand like beggars for a few scraps off the table.