Ingeus

[Bakatcha]

she had a job

 

Did you ask her if she had lots of pens too?

[Arantine Ehlael]

That really is dangerous advice. I volunteer in a charity shop. I was told under no circumstances do I apprehend a suspected shoplifter.

Indeed. I'm experienced in retail and back this up totally.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Apart from being potentially dangerous in psychological terms, this smacks of a hugely expensive money making wheeze for the NLP 'provider'.

They can brainwash as much as they like, it won't alter the amount of jobs available, pure bunkum.

 

I am not sure whether the pimps need liaise with external provider.... the Administrative Clerk assigned need only read a Cargo Cult Booklet on the new variant of Snake Oil, print themselves off a Doctorate in NLP, and hey presto, invite the unfortunate candidates to view the Administrative Clerk as a defacto expert on NLP.

 

In the West, if someone attempts to practice medicine without possessing a Medical License, we despise them and call them QUACKS.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

 

Had one of their "advisors" suggest something similar to me, and then patronisingly attempt to explain how having a degree would intimidate potential employers. After my initial surprise my response was twofold:

 

1. What would you fill the gap with?

 

2. Why not approach employers who valued what I had to offer? It’s not as if there’s a shortage of them.

 

That more or less ended that discussion. I didn’t even get to mention how unethical and counter-productive to keeping a job lying to a potential employer is – a point just about every decent organisation is happy to reinforce when given the chance. There are better and more honest ways to address the potential of over-qualification.

 

She also pitched hilariously unsuitable (and always low-paid) vacancies at me, and deliberately ignored interview and application feedback I received from my own efforts. This"advisor" is the stuff of comedy legend amongst my family and friends, who metaphorically tore her to shreds to me when they were trying to counteract her negative effect on my self-esteem and confidence. No doubt she’s from a sales background too – may even be the same person. For her, it wasn’t about helping the client into sustainable employment but about maximising the potential for a quick result, presumably so she could collect an Ingeus "Star Employee of the Month" cookie.

 

And Ingeus rewrote my CV when I first started with them, which I then had to rewrite to correct the spelling and grammar in order to make me sound less of an illiterate moron. I later rewrote my own CV, and use that for non-Ingeus related stuff.

 

 

 

I’m lost for words for how utterly moronic an answer that is from your "advisor". It’s very Pauline Campbell-Jones (The League of Gentlemen).

Although Vendor Specific Qualifications are time limited (typified by the plethora of IT Vendor Specific Qualifications - such as MCSE, Novell Certification etc), let alone the issue of "Certification for the Issuance of Home Information Packs", Academic Qualifications retain equity.

 

One of the things that candidates can do to avoid being subject to a plethora of unsuitable jobs is to invoke Due Diligence, and avoid any temptation to sign a Data Protection Waiver - the waiver being entirely voluntary, and the absense of a signature doing nothing to prevent Job Centre Plus from distributing Personal Data to the candidate. The DWP considers all Welfare To Work Organisations to e "DWP Job Centre Data Processors".

Edited June 29, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
Grammar, Subject

[Arantine Ehlael]

The thing is, I would have thought that ploughing so much money into them the Govt would need to see evidence of the quality of the training given...maybe even some sort of certifcation of each type of module....by some recognised body perhaps...?

The Coalition are more concerned about less public spending than wiser public spending.

 

Seems at the moment that there is a risk that they could be giving unsafe and unsound advice, teaching poor grammar and communication skills and amending CV styles that do not need help...in short making chances of employment less not more if the person is not able to know what is right prior to the training....and act accordingly. I wonder if prospective employers have noticed a decline in the quality of letters and/or CVs?

Indeed. Poor grammar and spelling on applications is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) moans of employers.

 

And as to helping those who are unwell get back to work.....they seem to be doing the very opposite......making them worse, effecting their mental health....probably putting more burden on NHS.......if not now maybe sooner rather than later....

 

And lowering self-esteem should be the opposite of their aims should it not?

Yes, it should. But some see it as a way to make their clients easier to manage so they can further their own ends.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

The Coalition are more concerned about less public spending than wiser public spending.

 

 

Indeed. Poor grammar and spelling on applications is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) moans of employers.

 

 

Yes, it should. But some see it as a way to make their clients easier to manage so they can further their own ends.

 

Indeed, employers may noan about poor grammar and spelling. However, if employers aren't part of the solution, do not contribute to any form of training, do not engage with the system then, unfortunately, they remain part of the problem and can only accept what the system delivers.

 

After all, if graduates going to University this year have to absorb £9K Liberal University Fees, ending up with an overdraft of £50K-£60K after 3/4 years study, and do not meet any employer willing to provide either sponsorship or placement, then frankly employers are not in the best position to offer critique over something which they aren't engaged with.

Edited June 29, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
grammaer

[MissAyla]

Hi everyone.

I'm hoping to get some advice.

 

I'm going to go to the Doctors about my anxiety, stress, panic and depression after being told by a lot of people that I need professional help.

The problem is, this Monday I have a workshop with Ingeus (jobsearch skills) and a workshop on Tuesday (interview skills) and then I'm at Ingeus again on Wednesday to see my adviser.

 

I'm getting anxious just thinking about it.

How can I go do the workshops without getting a panic or anxiety attack? I know it's impossible for me, I'll have a breakdown. I need to see the Dr but the thought of explaining to my adviser why I've missed the appointments fills me with dread and I end up with palpitations.

 

Shall I just not go?

It's getting to the point where I don't care if I get sanctioned, I need to get rid of these mental health problems before I do something stupid and Ingeus is one of the biggest contributions to my problem.

[Bakatcha]

Miss Ayla:

I would attend - play the wall flower. Don't do anything or say anything you are uncomfortable with. Practice saying "I don't feel able to do that just at the moment".

 

Fighting (or even just accepting) a sanction will be a lot more stressful and panicky than just going along with the flow for a while.

 

Good luck!

Edited June 30, 2012 by Bakatcha

[debt4get]

It's a bit quiet on the Cait Reilly case front, can't find an update anywhere.

latest update on case that i can find...dated june 27th 2012

link here

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/06/27/unpaid-work-schemes-breach-human-rights-claim-lawyers/

[osdset]

latest update on case that i can find...dated june 27th 2012

link here

 

Yes, I just read it funnily enough.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Yes, I just read it funnily enough.

 

According to the DWP Representative

“The imposition of a condition on the entitlement to benefit that a person undertakes certain work-related activity does not require a person to perform forced or compulsory labour. The only effect of such provisions is that a person needs to do the required acts in order to be paid a benefit. They are not forced to do those acts.”

 

If any candidate is assigned to any Mandatory Work Activity, told to report a place of business, and to work under the explicit direction of a company employee between (say) Monday-Friday 0900-1700 hrs, through which skills are delivered to stakeholders, then the candidate becomes a defacto employee.

 

I have yet to be subject to any form of Mandatory Work Activity YET.... however, if I were ever to be placed in this position, and irrespective of whether the work was relevant to my career interests, I would discuss the issue with someone within the Citizens Advice Bureau and/or Legal Advice Centre, and see whether legal action could be instigated at a local level.

 

The legal action would address two distinct issues.

Firstly, calling for a judicial review.

Secondly, submitting a claim for at least the National Minimum Wage to be paid, plus payment of National Insurance and Tax, let alone damages.

 

I seem to recall that a Judge had recently decreed that no-one may disregard the National Minimum Wage where work is concerned, and that that workers ma not waive their rights for payment. According to the National Minimum Wage Act 1998

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/39/section/1

 

Workers to be paid at least the national minimum wage.

1) A person who qualifies for the national minimum wage shall be remunerated by his employer in respect of his work in any pay reference period at a rate which is not less than the national minimum wage.

2)A person qualifies for the national minimum wage if he is an individual who—

(a)is a worker;

(b)is working, or ordinarily works, in the United Kingdom under his contract; and

©has ceased to be of compulsory school age.

(3)The national minimum wage shall be such single hourly rate as the Secretary of State may from time to time prescribe

(4)For the purposes of this Act a “pay reference period” is such period as the Secretary of State may prescribe for the purpose

[debt4get]

“The imposition of a condition on the entitlement to benefit that a person undertakes certain work-related activity does not require a person to perform forced or compulsory labour. The only effect of such provisions is that a person needs to do the required acts in order to be paid a benefit. They are not forced to do those acts.”

talk about double speak......certain work related activity does not require a person to perform forced or compulsory labour....but the person needs to do the required acts in order to be paid a benefit..they are not forced?.....or in other words no one is forced to do it but if you dont you will lose your entitlement to benefit....I am reading that correctly am i not?

[osdset]

Secondly, submitting a claim for at least the National Minimum Wage to be paid, plus payment of National Insurance and Tax, let alone damages.

 

OK in principal, but one must bear in mind that the claimant would have to come off of JSA for the length of the placement, and do a rapid re-claim at the end, the employer cannot pay wages while a claimant is in receipt of benefit.

 

This could get rather complicated in the case of follow on mandatory placements, far better to get rid of MWA all together.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

“The imposition of a condition on the entitlement to benefit that a person undertakes certain work-related activity does not require a person to perform forced or compulsory labour. The only effect of such provisions is that a person needs to do the required acts in order to be paid a benefit. They are not forced to do those acts.”

talk about double speak......certain work related activity does not require a person to perform forced or compulsory labour....but the person needs to do the required acts in order to be paid a benefit..they are not forced?.....or in other words no one is forced to do it but if you dont you will lose your entitlement to benefit....I am reading that correctly am i not?

Absolutely. But, that is precisely the position of the Legal Representative for the DWP towards the case.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

OK in principal, but one must bear in mind that the claimant would have to come off of JSA for the length of the placement, and do a rapid re-claim at the end, the employer cannot pay wages while a claimant is in receipt of benefit.

 

This could get rather complicated in the case of follow on mandatory placements, far better to get rid of MWA all together.

Given that neither Labour nor Conservatives will eradicate the MWA directly, the only way that it can become so restricted and superfluous is to restrict its use for the claimant.

 

In the first instance, if a candidate is solely dependent on JSA, and they are coerced into a MWA Assignment, then they would not be able to sign off (lest they face destitution). But, legal options would include a full Judicial Review (which is what Public Interest Lawyers are doing in the case of Cait Reily and a second plaintiff on a Community Programme), and also taking the employer to small claims court (for example) to claim for damages.

 

If the candidate is occupying a job in everything but name, ie requires to apply skills to deliver services to stakeholders, then given that the candidate may not waive their right to receive National Minimum Wage, they may (as in the case of Unpaid Interns who have won substantive damages) claim financial redress from the courts comparable to the Salary, Tax and National Insurance which would be paid to any employee for the work done.

 

If, in accordance with the growth in MWA, an increasing number of candidates pursue legal claims, then a consequence may be that employers may extract themselves from any relationship with MWA.

[osdset]

Welfare-to-work firms call for more unemployed to have benefits sanctioned.

 

Story http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/welfare-to-work-firms-call-for-more-unemployed-to-have-benefits-sanctioned/

[signmaker]

In reply to the above posts, I think they should make all of us dole **** sweep the streets for our dole money, we could all wear a high-vis vests with dole **** on the back like the community payback offenders have to, I'm sure that would keep all the taxpayers and do-gooders happy, and the pimps would get their well deserved income too, it wouldn't be any more humiliating than having to attend job searches and "courses" at their offices.

Keep smiling it makes them wonder what you're up to.

 

Now on a more sensible note I have been mandated to attend a Job action group, mock interview video, (I have attended one course with interview techniques not sure what the difference will be) they have asked me to attend dressed for a formal interview, during the job action group I will have "the oportunity to recieve advice guidance and informal training on effective job searching activities in a group environment" I do not like to be told how to dress, at 56 I can dress myself suitably when needed, I think they expect me to attend in a suit, wich I will not because I'll be arriving on my motorbike, so have an excuse for being clad in leather, It reads like they may be videoing the the mock interview, again I am going to refuse to have this done to me.

 

And of course I have been threatened with sanctions in my letter should I not attend, anyone else had any experience like this?

 

By the way I am waiting to hear from a prospective employer for my induction so I'm almost employed, (temporary job) I have not yet told Ingeus and I managed to get this job without their help.

[osdset]

they have asked me to attend dressed for a formal interview,

 

What about going dressed as Ronald McDonald? You could always argue that as 'burger flipping' would be the only realistic opportunity offered by the pimps, you have turned up dressed appropriately.

[signmaker]

What about going dressed as Ronald McDonald? You could always argue that as 'burger flipping' would be the only realistic opportunity offered by the pimps, you have turned up dressed appropriately.

 

:-D:-D, you are right although my advisors (or the ones that I have dealt with) seem a lot more caring than the others on here they really have not done anything to help me get a job probably because there is nothing suitable for me and I've told them that I don't want an entry level opening,

If this job doesn't come off though I might just have to hire a ronald suit.

[debt4get]

I personally would go dressed in the worst clothes i could lay my hands on.....they cannot mandate what you wear...and hey who knows you may get a nice new interview suit out of them...but wouldnt hold my breath...

[signmaker]

I got a new suit out of them already was offered early on when I started with them, as I have said my advisors aren't too bad with me maybe because I am older than most of them and am really looking for a job, looking at some of the clients they have are I'm sure are not too keen, but I will not take any s**t from them and I think they know this, they do not own me.

I could do with some new "Doc Martin" work boots:-D I wonder if I dare ask and some work clothes as well.

In my last group talk with one advisor he did ask if everyone was ok for interview clothes etc, has nobody had anything from these poeple or am I the exception if Ingeus are making thousands out of me getting a job I think that they should give me all the encouragment that they can as they should everyone else who has to go through the indignity of having to attend these places.

Dare I say which office I attend? I'll say I'm in Derbyshire for the moment.

[reallymadwoman]

Dare I say which office I attend? I'll say I'm in Derbyshire for the moment.

 

I wouldn't be any more specific since there's probably enough in your other posts to identify you if you give an exact location.

[Bakatcha]

I got a new suit out of them already was offered early on when I started with them, as I have said my advisors aren't too bad with me maybe because I am older than most of them and am really looking for a job, looking at some of the clients they have are I'm sure are not too keen, but I will not take any s**t from them and I think they know this, they do not own me.

I could do with some new "Doc Martin" work boots:-D I wonder if I dare ask and some work clothes as well.

In my last group talk with one advisor he did ask if everyone was ok for interview clothes etc, has nobody had anything from these poeple or am I the exception if Ingeus are making thousands out of me getting a job I think that they should give me all the encouragment that they can as they should everyone else who has to go through the indignity of having to attend these places.

Dare I say which office I attend? I'll say I'm in Derbyshire for the moment.

Could be worse - I think Derbyshire is also a4greed territory so you may have drawn a winning ticket in the WP lottery.

[count orlok]

500,000 sanctioned for not taking jobs? I didn't think there where even that many jobs available. Or are they sanctioning 1000s for each job available; I can't beleive that many people are offered a job and all refuse to take it.

[Daisy11]

 

Had one of their "advisors" suggest something similar to me, and then patronisingly attempt to explain how having a degree would intimidate potential employers. After my initial surprise my response was twofold:

 

1. What would you fill the gap with?

 

2. Why not approach employers who valued what I had to offer? It’s not as if there’s a shortage of them.

 

That more or less ended that discussion. I didn’t even get to mention how unethical and counter-productive to keeping a job lying to a potential employer is – a point just about every decent organisation is happy to reinforce when given the chance. There are better and more honest ways to address the potential of over-qualification.

 

She also pitched hilariously unsuitable (and always low-paid) vacancies at me, and deliberately ignored interview and application feedback I received from my own efforts. This"advisor" is the stuff of comedy legend amongst my family and friends, who metaphorically tore her to shreds to me when they were trying to counteract her negative effect on my self-esteem and confidence. No doubt she’s from a sales background too – may even be the same person. For her, it wasn’t about helping the client into sustainable employment but about maximising the potential for a quick result, presumably so she could collect an Ingeus "Star Employee of the Month" cookie.

 

And Ingeus rewrote my CV when I first started with them, which I then had to rewrite to correct the spelling and grammar in order to make me sound less of an illiterate moron. I later rewrote my own CV, and use that for non-Ingeus related stuff.

 

 

 

I’m lost for words for how utterly moronic an answer that is from your "advisor". It’s very Pauline Campbell-Jones (The League of Gentlemen).

Thanks, good to know that I'm not alone. That's a wonderful reply re qualifications, what am I supposed to fill the gap with indeed. I assume, by directing me towards low-paid jobs, she hopes that their recruitment staff doesn't check dates match etc, ie they are as uneducated as her. She also deleted my referees, has done this twice, and have only realised why - might be intimidating for a potential employer to ask references from someone who has much higher status than them.

Oh god, who know, my advisor is tiresome and certainly lowering my morale and confidence, utter disgrace. Perhaps they do want jobseekers to go on to ESA rather than jobseekers-allowance.