Ingeus

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Are the mock interviews compulsory?

 

I have one in a few weeks and I really don't want to go to it. I'm at college four days a week and spend every night applying for jobs and yet I'm STILL at the stage where I'm being made to attend all these mock interviews and CV building days. I've been on the Jobcentre since February and since then I've had three CV building sessions, a two day job fair, two confidence building workshops and now two mock interviews. The first mock interview was straight after I arrived at Ingeus so it wasn't that big a deal for me but I'm not missing a day of college just to travel down on a smelly bus for an hour in a shirt and tie for a bloody mock interview. I've already had a bunch of successful interviews (two to get into college, one for a seasonal job at Butlins and one at Teleperformance that I later turned the job down for because I couldn't meet the hours) so it's not like I need any further help. I'm so ****ed off that I'm getting made to do all these things, and I'm sick of them asking me "so what jobs have you applied for?". I spend all my time on Gumtree, Universal Jobmatch, Indeed and other websites and there's no way I'm going to sit there and repeat them all back to you when I've just went and done the same thing for the Jobcentre!

 

Ugh! Someone please tell me I don't need to do this mock interview?

Simple answer No.... however, if pressed, simply respond by suggesting that, if at any time you would ever wish to partake of such an option further, you will seek a meeting with a Professional Careers Advisor within the local Careers Service. And, if pressed further, simply ask of the pleb whether they have been trained and employed in such a capacity.

 

If they haven't - tough luck. They will unlikely to possess the skills needed to analyse your profile, let alone offer Professional Job Search Advice. Even if they say 'yes', simply assert your right to seek Professional Advice if and when you need.

 

Of course, whereas the pleb may wish to coerce you to do a mock interview, perhaps you could cordially suggest that they try harder to get Real Interviews for Real Jobs.

 

Although a Mandatory Notification will be issued for you to attend a meeting (for example), a candidate cannot be mandated to participate within a Mock Interview.

Edited February 1, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[Bakatcha]

 

 

 

 

Although a Mandatory Notification will be issued for you to attend a meeting

 

(for example), a candidate cannot be mandated to participate within a Mock

 

Interview.

I am not sure where you get this idea - if you have a source please quote it. Otherwise I would work on the assumption that you can be mandated to do just about anything "reasonable" to improve your job chances. I think any Decision Maker would consider interview practice "reasonable".

[BomBomBom]

I am not sure where you get this idea - if you have a source please quote it. Otherwise I would work on the assumption that you can be mandated to do just about anything "reasonable" to improve your job chances. I think any Decision Maker would consider interview practice "reasonable".

 

But then at what stage does it stop becoming reasonable? Like I said I've already had a mock interview a few weeks ago and I've had plenty of experience with interviews. This new one isn't going to be any different from the last ones. I understand how interviews work and know what answers to say. It's just wasting my time making me go to another one.

[G4C389]

I was told that I had to go and do a mock interview some months ago with Ingeus and was told to dress appropriately for an interview, well, I went in a T-shirt with skulls and studs, a leather biker jacket and jeans, they also said that the interview was going to be video recorded.

 

I attended and told them that I was not going to be filmed, the interveiwer said it was policy, so I told him that there was not going to be an interview then, he went out of the room to speak to his supervisor, came back and said it was ok, no mention to my attire, yes I was being awkward but why should they tell you how to dress, (he didn't ask if I had interview clothes) and what right do these people think they have to film you during a mock interview.

I can understand why they might want to look back on it to improve tecniques.

 

If you want your u/b you have to tick the boxes and go along with what they ask, you could plead your case and explain that you are competent with interview skills.

good luck.

 

Yea I went in casual clothes when I went to a mock interview, my advisor didnt say to dress smartly for it like, she only done mock with me because I failed to get out forward for a job interview during a group session with an ingeus member if staff (who was a ****** by the way) When doing the mock on the way to the room my advisor was walking so quick there, started the interview before I even had the chance to sit down, with the 1st question being 'what do you do in your spare time',at the end of it she asked do i wa t booking in for another one with her, (she didnt look 1 bit interested, so why?) but in a way it helped as the next ibterview i had i remembered some of the advice from her and got that job.

[RaeUK]

... I'm at college four days a week and spend every night applying for jobs and yet I'm STILL at the stage where I'm being made to attend all these mock interviews and CV building days...

 

With all due apologies to all and sundry, I can't quite understand this. If you're at college four days a week, why are you having to go through all this nonsense? Genuinely curious as I would have assumed your college takes precedence ...

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I am not sure where you get this idea - if you have a source please quote it. Otherwise I would work on the assumption that you can be mandated to do just about anything "reasonable" to improve your job chances. I think any Decision Maker would consider interview practice "reasonable".

I am not sure where you get the idea that a candidate can be mandated to participate within a Mock Interview....or indeed any other activity... please specify the source for your beliefs. Otherwise, I cordially suggest that you refer to the DWP Provider Guidance:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/

 

Plebs may suggest a Mock Interview.... however, if a Mandatory Notification is issued to attend a meeting, within which a Mock Interview would be convened, then the Mandatory Notification would solely relate to the need to attend the meeting. It would not relate to participating within a Mock Interview. Similarly if, within a meeting, a candidate is required to present a Job Log, with comprehensive details of employers so that the pleb may follow up on the application. Although, in this context, a candidate would be expected to provide details of the jobs that they applied for, it is not necessary to contravene Data Protection Legislation, and provide the pleb with employer contact information.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

But then at what stage does it stop becoming reasonable? Like I said I've already had a mock interview a few weeks ago and I've had plenty of experience with interviews. This new one isn't going to be any different from the last ones. I understand how interviews work and know what answers to say. It's just wasting my time making me go to another one.

If you wish to indulge the pleb, that is your choice - however, they are not Qualified Professionals, are not Professional Careers Advisors, and have ample opportunity to raise interview questions within every meeting that you attend.

 

But, on the subject of interviews, has anyone picked up a telephone to speak to an employer on your behalf yet, and have they ever arranged a face to face interview for a job yet ? If not, have they even arranged a telephone interview for a job?

[Nystagmite]

When I was with Working Links, interviews did come up. But I was asked if I felt I need practise with it.

[BomBomBom]

With all due apologies to all and sundry, I can't quite understand this. If you're at college four days a week, why are you having to go through all this nonsense? Genuinely curious as I would have assumed your college takes precedence ...

 

I have been told that my job search is the number one priority and that if the Jobcentre/Ingeus find me any job, I've to leave college for it.

 

But, on the subject of interviews, has anyone picked up a telephone to speak to an employer on your behalf yet, and have they ever arranged a face to face interview for a job yet ? If not, have they even arranged a telephone interview for a job?

 

No, no and no. The most they've done for me is print off some random, useless admin/call centre jobs that require experience and thus I have no chance with anyway.

[john27]

Ingeus just makes me feel depressed my adviser treats me like rubbish puts me on jobs which i won't even last a day on, keeps putting me on the most boring workshops(she actually tried to put me on for every single workshop they did). If i could do the jobs they are asking me to do i wouldn't be on ESA..... And she hands my number companies who are probably attached to ingeus setting me up with interviews which again i won't be able to do. They send me on interviews with out even telling me what the role is, these people are so frustrating they shouldn't be aloud to run the way they do.

 

for some reason, jobcentre and ingeus advisers who are female are always the worst for being overly bossy - i actually know a lad at my ingeus place who was shocked when i told him my adviser (a dude) only wants 8 jobs a fortnight and i dont have to come in for jobsearch - he said his treatment had been very harsh in comparison e.g. his female adviser demands 15 jobs, all printscreened - the authority goes straight to their heads

 

quick update on ingeus, letter through the door today telling me im on the "how to write a cv" course - not only do i already know how to write a cv but my ingeus adviser has already written a cv for me!!! - this is yet another waste-of-time course they're sticking me on and i have half a mind to not even turn up:-x

[osdset]

Ingeus just makes me feel depressed my adviser treats me like rubbish puts me on jobs which i won't even last a day on, keeps putting me on the most boring workshops(she actually tried to put me on for every single workshop they did). If i could do the jobs they are asking me to do i wouldn't be on ESA..... And she hands my number companies who are probably attached to ingeus setting me up with interviews which again i won't be able to do. They send me on interviews with out even telling me what the role is, these people are so frustrating they shouldn't be aloud to run the way they do.

 

If you are on ESA (WRAG) then the provider cannot compel you to apply for a job, or attend job interviews.

[Bakatcha]

I am not sure where you get the idea that a candidate can be mandated to participate within a Mock Interview....or indeed any other activity... please specify the source for your beliefs. Otherwise, I cordially suggest that you refer to the DWP Provider Guidance:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/

 

Plebs may suggest a Mock Interview.... however, if a Mandatory Notification is issued to attend a meeting, within which a Mock Interview would be convened, then the Mandatory Notification would solely relate to the need to attend the meeting. It would not relate to participating within a Mock Interview. Similarly if, within a meeting, a candidate is required to present a Job Log, with comprehensive details of employers so that the pleb may follow up on the application. Although, in this context, a candidate would be expected to provide details of the jobs that they applied for, it is not necessary to contravene Data Protection Legislation, and provide the pleb with employer contact information.

Rebecca - I am familiar with the provider guidance and have posted links to it here and elsewhere for some time now so I don't need you to tell me of its existence.. The point is that a pimp would have no difficulty in justifying a mock interview as a reasonable activity to improve a jobseeker's chances of finding work. They are most certainly able to mandate people onto such an activity (c/f black box approach), even if the victim suspects the motive is to punish! To advise someone not to attend a course onto which they have been mandated is irresponsible - it's them that would have to suffer the resulting sanction - not you!

[jasta11]

...But, on the subject of interviews, has anyone picked up a telephone to speak to an employer on your behalf yet, and have they ever arranged a face to face interview for a job yet ? If not, have they even arranged a telephone interview for a job?

 

Good point, Rebecca - and in my case, the answer is a resounding 'NO'.

 

According to Ingeus' glossy brochure blurb, they have 'dedicated' personnel who will look for vacancies for you. They did...but only 3 vacancies found in 18 months and one of them was working with Ingeus as an advisor *shudder*. If that's the ratio of jobs they can find - 1 every 6 months - for a highly experienced person like me, then what hope do the younger, less-qualified people have? (Even A4e had a higher success rate; they found me 1 job in four months

 

If I only found 1 job to apply for every six months I'd be sanctioned; Ingeus do it and they get a wage. The world is truly mad, as my dad is fond of saying.

 

Payback is at hand though..I'm glad I kept the mandatory appointments my old advisor issued, lazily hand-written in biro on the back of a compliments slip..she even signed them too, so caught bang to rights flouting strict DWP guidelines on the issue of mandatory letters. Plenty of other evidence of naughtiness too..and that's before I've started recording everything!

[Chester6]

mine only ever provides jobs from the net, they don't seem to have any exclusive vacancies or any real influence over interviewers/bosses though

the nly people that look for jobs for me are me and the adviser who looks on indeed and others

[RebeccaPidgeon]

mine only ever provides jobs from the net, they don't seem to have any exclusive vacancies or any real influence over interviewers/bosses though

the only people that look for jobs for me are me and the adviser who looks on indeed and others

From the employer perspective, they are hardly likely to establish a preferential relationship with the Welfare To Work Sector given that they will be inundated with calls from Agencies from within their preferred Agency Network, from other agencies, and through direct contact from candidates. However, when candidates are mandated to attend the Work Programme, if the candidate decides against signing the Data Protection Waiver, the Clerk they are dealing with may suggest that, if they dont sign the Data Protection Waiver, they will not have access to "Secret Vacancies". This is a strange state of affairs given that Ingeus suggests that

http://www.ingeus.co.uk/home/225,employer_services_team

Ingeus' Employer Services Team plays a crucial role in the organisation, building relationships with employers to identify suitable job opportunities for our clients.

 

Of course, We could assume that, if Ingeus did have access to any Secret Vacancies, then they would be motivated towards arranging face to face interviews for candidates, and once they secured employment, could claim their Performance Related Bonus.....claiming £215 for every 4 weeks that the candidate was in Sustainable Employment. And, if they did this, surely they would wish to highlight their success at achieving interviews for Real Jobs and getting candidates into a job.

 

Perhaps, if the Welfare To Work plebs were actually qualified, and possessed the skills, capacity and competence to build Employer Relationships, they would certainly negotiate far more interviews for candidates than is currently evidenced, where the current figures suggest that only 2.5% of candidates end up in Sustainable Employment as a direct consequence of the Work Programme.

Edited February 3, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Editing

[fxmaster]

If you are on ESA (WRAG) then the provider cannot compel you to apply for a job, or attend job interviews.

Yes i am on the WRAG, she's even stooped to try and make me apply for a leaflet distribution job, and she's so ignorant she doesn't even know that most leaflet distribution jobs are commission based so if no one goes in to the shop your not going to be having a job for long!

 

I am in again tomorrow and she will probably give me more workshops which i don't need, i keep telling her i want unskilled work, not engineering or telemarketing, or skills which requires years off university to actually require the skills. And most importantly i want a job which i will be in for years to come and not jobs where i am not going to be sure if i am still going to have a job the next day i am in...

[Nystagmite]

I thought they have to take your skills into account when looking at jobs for you?

[Chester6]

I thought they have to take your skills into account when looking at jobs for you?

 

Only if they were being professional and listening to you, some tend to seek a quick fix for the clients

[fxmaster]

I thought they have to take your skills into account when looking at jobs for you?

My adviser doesn't look at my skills although she has my cv, i am in again today so she'll probably be on my case again sending me for more jobs i won't be able to do. I think the money which goes into funding ingeus companies will be better off spent upgrading the job centre for people looking for work. Ingeus don't have a clue they aren't professional and they don't understand the conditions their clients have.

[Putneynic]

Has anybody else had any experience of the DWP's change in policy regarding the sanctioning of Credits Only WP claimants?

 

As of last September, DWP advisers in my local Job Centre Plus were informed that "All customers on JSA credits only can go to [attend? partake?] the WP on a voluntary basis[;] however if they FTA or DNA no sanction [is] to be applied." (sic - the finer points of English grammar rarely seem to extend to internal emails).

 

After my DWP adviser cheerfully supplied me with a printout of the email, I presented this 'get out of jail' card to my new Ingeus 'adviser'. I reviewed with him the reasons of why I wished to part company with Ingeus, and why I thought Ingeus was badly placed to assist me. Initially, ie. during our meeting, the Ingeus 'adviser' said he would wind up my record with a 'change of circumstances' note, but I have since been bombarded with a Contacting Employers course and a further adviser meeting, both arranged unilaterally by the 'adviser' and both branded as mandatory.

 

I'm awaiting some external third party advice on all this, but just wondered if anyone has ever come across this.

[Putneynic]

Oh, by the way, I take it that someone's already tumbled that 'Ingeus' means 'huge' in Latin. Shame that Ingeus are not know by the fuller title 'Ingens struem cacas' 'huge pil of ****': it would be a much fairer descriptor.

[Bakatcha]

I was looking through the latest report on users' experience of the WP and came across a few paras which specified that once someone had volunteered to go on the WP they were treated no differently to mandated "customers". Thus volunteers can (and are) put forward for sanctioning by the pimps. Given these circumstances my immediate reaction was - why would anyone ever volunteer? From Putneynic's post I see that credits only claimants were not subject to mandation onto the programme. It appears they now are. My guess is that so few people actually volunteered they had to make the change is so that the pimps have more stock to harvest for outcome payments.

[Putneynic]

I was looking through the latest report on users' experience of the WP and came across a few paras which specified that once someone had volunteered to go on the WP they were treated no differently to mandated "customers". Thus volunteers can (and are) put forward for sanctioning by the pimps. Given these circumstances my immediate reaction was - why would anyone ever volunteer? From Putneynic's post I see that credits only claimants were not subject to mandation onto the programme. It appears they now are. My guess is that so few people actually volunteered they had to make the change is so that the pimps have more stock to harvest for outcome payments.

 

Thanks for this insight. Just to clarify, in April 2012, I was mandated to partake in the WP. The change on mandating Credits Only claimants occurred on 3 September 2012. Credits only claimants are now placed voluntarily. Hence I am caught in a change of status situation. I do not wish to volunteer, but have yet to convince Ingeus. I'm not too happy about having to do so by default action.

 

Thanks for this information.

[Chester6]

Maybe more are sent to Ingeus so that they can be sanctioned and thus lose their benefits and each one reduces the benefits that way?

[Bakatcha]

Thanks for this insight. Just to clarify, in April 2012, I was mandated to partake in the WP. The change on mandating Credits Only claimants occurred on 3 September 2012. Credits only claimants are now placed voluntarily. Hence I am caught in a change of status situation. I do not wish to volunteer, but have yet to convince Ingeus. I'm not too happy about having to do so by default action.

 

Thanks for this information.

Maybe I have it the wrong way round - you seem to be saying that credit only claimants used to be mandatory but are now voluntary. In any event the report can be found here:

http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/spru/pubs/pdf/rrep821.pdf

 

Chapter 2 of the provider guidance (updated 26th November 2012) says:

 

(2) Note: Participants in receipt of JSA Credits Only will be will be given

the option of accessing the Work Programme and taking part on an entirely

voluntary basis from their eligible entry point. They do not have a separate

Opportunity/Claimant Group or Payment Group (PG) on PRaP.

I do not know if this was the same before the guidance was updated.

This seems to bear out your version!

Seems that you have been caught in a time trap! If you weren't already mandated onto the WP then you couldn't be mandated. However since you were mandated they will argue that you can't escape!