Ingeus

[osdset]

I know with many retail sites it's just online applying now, I also know that some like HMV ignore spec letters and just bin them, some companies when you apply on spec will advise you to use their online site

it all makes a lie (yet again) out of what the Ingeus, A4E and others claim

it doesn't help that some so-called advisers get people to send spec letters out a lot and claim this will help with the jobcentre to think you are looking for work

 

All this spec letter stuff is rubbish, occasionally yes it works but once in a blue moon. The pimps advocate this and spec phone calls because they have nothing to offer job wise.

 

Employers have taken advantage of the situation and are making candidates jump through hoops for the most basic menial jobs, there are too many candidates for the jobs available, and until this changes everyone will continue on the merry-go-round.

[Chester6]

All this spec letter stuff is rubbish, occasionally yes it works but once in a blue moon. The pimps advocate this and spec phone calls because they have nothing to offer job wise.

 

Employers have taken advantage of the situation and are making candidates jump through hoops for the most basic menial jobs, there are too many candidates for the jobs available, and until this changes everyone will continue on the merry-go-round.

Employers and pimps both make you leap through hoops to get most jobs and they ask for a lot even for basic positions now, the pimps don't help as they just want to get the money from you being employed, the pimps are good at lies though and bullying tactics

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I know with many retail sites it's just online applying now, I also know that some like HMV ignore spec letters and just bin them, some companies when you apply on spec will advise you to use their online site

it all makes a lie (yet again) out of what the Ingeus, A4E and others claim

it doesn't help that some so-called advisers get people to send spec letters out a lot and claim this will help with the jobcentre to think you are looking for work

Of course, if you want to indulge the Clerks, what you can do is combine a standard letter within a mailmerge database (containing job titles, names and addresses of employers), and literally print out a few thousand standard letters plus photocopy a few thousand CV's on site. And, after collating each, place each in a separate envelope with transparent address window, and dump the lot on the clerks desk for posting out.

[Chester6]

Of course, if you want to indulge the Clerks, what you can do is combine a standard letter within a mailmerge database (containing job titles, names and addresses of employers), and literally print out a few thousand standard letters plus photocopy a few thousand CV's on site. And, after collating each, place each in a separate envelope with transparent address window, and dump the lot on the clerks desk for posting out.

 

indulging them isn't the best as they've tried to get me to go for jobs I have no interest in, belittle me and try to lie that p-t work is feasible

[jimduf22]

I've adapted a Subject Access Request template used for bank charges to make it appplicable to the DWP & WP

 

 

[Your Name, Address, & NI Number]

 

[Your Jobcentre Address}

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

In accordance with the Data Protection Act (1998)

 

I require you to supply me with all personal data held by the Jobcentre - the Data Controller, and every third-party Data Processor appointed by you including any Work Programme prime contractor, their subcontractors, or any other employment training or similar organisation in any way related to my claim for benefits

 

 

This data is to include, but is not limited to -

 

Records and documents relating to my history of benefit claim/s or National Insurance number.

 

LMS, PRaP or other system documents or records, whether held on paper, digital, or other storage format.

 

Emails, postal correspondences or telephone logs; including those with any third-party to my benefit claim.

 

Records of all Jobcentre, Work Programme provider, or other advisor notes and details of meetings attended.

 

Details of all past, present, or prospective employers contacted in any capacity, and by what means the contact was made, and the reason for contact.

 

You have 40 days in which to comply with this legally enforceable request under The Data Protection Act

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[signature]

 

Please feel free to adapt the format or content to improve the chances of getting all the information requested, and as Bakatcha pointed out, this can be sent to the DWP Free of charge

 

Make sure you send your letter via recorded delivery and track/print a copy of the recipient's signature via the Royal Mail website as evidence of postage in case you need to threaten them with a court order to disclose.

 

*Edited to include specific mention of PRaP system records in SAR letter*

 

who do i complain to as they have not complied with my request? The letter i received from the data protection officer at my local job centre stated i would need to contact ingeus and ATS to request what i require. It is my 3rd SAR to the job centre and now i wish to take matters further by reporting them.

[antone]

who do i complain to as they have not complied with my request? The letter i received from the data protection officer at my local job centre stated i would need to contact ingeus and ATS to request what i require. It is my 3rd SAR to the job centre and now i wish to take matters further by reporting them.

 

First off, be sure that you have sent your SARs to the right place - it sounds to me like you have, but I only know a little about the DPA. Assuming this is indeed the case, you can contact the Information Commissioners Office to take the matter further.

[**Margaret**]

:Subject Access Requests:

 

Well according to the form (that I keep forgetting about) on the Work n Pensions site, the correct address is one's nearest Work n Pensions office.

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/request-for-personal-information.rtf

 

Can't remember when they last replied within forty days, it's usually nearer sixty, but we've always had a response via our local benefit delivery centre. They've even given me a direct address (for our area) to write to.

 

I've never tried subject access via a jobcentre. Maybe they're less 'tuned in'.

 

Margaret.

[Bakatcha]

I have been trying since the beginning of October to get a satisfactory response to my SAR. It was to the DWP who attempted to prolong the process by requiring their own form (SANTA01) to be completed - which I did. I then received a computer print out (which I didn't request), no copies of notes, letters, forms or e-mails (apparently there are none!) which I did request, and no info at all from A4e (the data processor). I made a formal complaint to the DWP (no real response but you need to do this if you're going to the ICO). I received a letter from the data processor (A4e) with their form (7 pages!) and a demand for £10 and 2 forms of ID. I have not completed A4e's form.

I believe that the information held by the data processor (in my case A4e) should be available by sending a SAR to the Data Controller (DWP) and IT SHOULD NOT BE NECESSARY TO MAKE A SEPERATE SAR FOR EVERY DATA PROCESSOR - after all there could be many pimps and sub-pimps in the data chain. There is only one data controller and this should mean something!

I have made a complaint to the ICO and I await developments.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Bakatcha

[jasta11]

Quick someone...give me a brandy...a large one!

 

After finishing my brief course at Learning Links, I had an appointment back at Ingeus today - 'group session' - and basically it was some guy telling us we were now on the Routeways part of the course and that it would involve more training, etc - same old rubbish, though now we can be summoned there anytime between 8:30am and 6:30pm as these are classed as 'normal' work hours in the real world!

 

This is the worst bit; someone asked him what happened after the 2 years were up and he replied that we would go back to the Jobcentre for 6 months...then be back with Ingeus for 2 more years...then back at Jobcentre for 6 months....then back at Ingeus for 2 years. A 7-year program!!!! After that he wasn't sure what would happen.

 

Maybe Flumps, Rebecca or another of our very helpful DWP members could shed some clarity on this? (And hopefully reassure us all the guy was talking total rubbish). If it's true it's horrific!

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Quick someone...give me a brandy...a large one!

 

After finishing my brief course at Learning Links, I had an appointment back at Ingeus today - 'group session' - and basically it was some guy telling us we were now on the Routeways part of the course and that it would involve more training, etc - same old rubbish, though now we can be summoned there anytime between 8:30am and 6:30pm as these are classed as 'normal' work hours in the real world!

 

This is the worst bit; someone asked him what happened after the 2 years were up and he replied that we would go back to the Jobcentre for 6 months...then be back with Ingeus for 2 more years...then back at Jobcentre for 6 months....then back at Ingeus for 2 years. A 7-year program!!!! After that he wasn't sure what would happen.

 

Maybe Flumps, Rebecca or another of our very helpful DWP members could shed some clarity on this? (And hopefully reassure us all the guy was talking total rubbish). If it's true it's horrific!

Are you now on the Vocational Routeways part of the Work Programme ? Ingeus have the option of sending candidates onto

i) a Personal Routeways (ie Group Session) to Vocational Routeway,

or

ii) a Vocational Routeway to Personal Routeway,

and it is a throw of the dice where you end up.

 

Given that the Work Programme figures are horrendous, it is possible that, when candidates finish the 2 years, and once they are returned to the Job Centre, JCP may invoke whatever Job Seekers Direction they consider appropriate - including requiring candidates to do Mandatory Work Experience. However, the Work Programme is a temporary measure, and I think unlikely to be continued after the next General Election - if Labour are returned to Government, they may introduce something along similar lines, but through which Third Sector Organisations (who have expressed the view that they were dealt a bad hand by the Work Programme Primes) would be given a larger role.... in the DWP Select Committee hearing this morning, for example, a number of charities dealing with ex offenders, candidates with alcohol/abuse issues, single parents etc suggested that such candidates, including Qualified Professionals, should be assigned different options.

 

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=12445

 

The 7 year suggested time frame is pure baloney - the Work Programme is only a 5 year contract.

Edited January 30, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Spelling Mistake

[jasta11]

Thanks for the very prompt reply, Rebecca - I know I'm on SOME 'Routeways' program but what it is I'm not sure; there were a lot of us at the appointment and the guy just skipped very briefly through what it would involve, which was mainly further training to get NVQ, Sage, etc (which I already have) and applying for every job under the sun.

 

Glad to hear the 7-year bit is wrong..hopefully Ingeus won't even be around by then.

 

Thanks again for your clarification.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Thanks for the very prompt reply, Rebecca - I know I'm on SOME 'Routeways' program but what it is I'm not sure; there were a lot of us at the appointment and the guy just skipped very briefly through what it would involve, which was mainly further training to get NVQ, Sage, etc (which I already have) and applying for every job under the sun.

 

Glad to hear the 7-year bit is wrong..hopefully Ingeus won't even be around by then.

 

Thanks again for your clarification.

I think the Personal Routeways option is delivered in-house, but Vocational Routeway is delivered through a Sub Contractor.

 

If you already possess the skills, and if you consider any training (such as Learn Direct Modules, Sage etc) to be superfluous, and which do not add to your existing skill set, then you may be able to negotiate your way out. Others will clarify this - but, if you complete any Training Module through Learn Direct, this may lead to Ingeus claiming some money from the taxpayer. All fair and well if you dont possess the skills, but tantamount to fraud if you are required to participate within a Module, but do not need to do so.

 

Within the DWP Select Committee this morning, a female witness cited the case of a Qualified Teacher who, through the Work Programme, was sidelined to a Food and Hygiene Course in order to apply for the job of a ... Dinner Lady.

 

After the Vocational Routeway and Personal Routeway Options, which should be completed early during Year 2, there will be other options... however, the Tender Document is sparse on detail.

 

If you are interested in additional training.... try the FE Colleges. Some part time and evening courses will be available, requiring only a modest 3 hour commitment per week, and which are free if the recipient is in receipt of JSA or other benefits.

[jasta11]

if you complete any Training Module through Learn Direct, this may lead to Ingeus claiming some money from the taxpayer. All fair and well if you dont possess the skills, but tantamount to fraud if you are required to participate within a Module, but do not need to do so.

 

I'll let you decide, Rebecca; I have 35+years admin experience - ex-Civil Service, ex-Local Govt, costing manager, credit controller, legal work, etc and Ingeus sent me to Learning Links to 'further my skills' by attending a - wait for it - 7 day course on Business Administration! I think the word 'unnecessary' is rather an understatement here

 

No problems with Learning Links - not their fault I was sent there and they were really decent people, even they agreed I'd learn nothing new.

[Chester6]

are these learndirect courses worth it? I completed an ECDL and a NVQ which is worth it but they wanted me to do a basic sounding maths and English - I went originally due to Ingeus which is why many go

I have previous experience in word and admin though

[Bakatcha]

are these learndirect courses worth it? I completed an ECDL and a NVQ which is worth it but they wanted me to do a basic sounding maths and English - I went originally due to Ingeus which is why many go

I have previous experience in word and admin though

Follow the money!!!!

Learn Direct get paid from European Social Fund money. They pay a commission to the pimp for everyone sent to them for an ESF funded course. This is a good earner for the pimp since each candidate completing a course is worth £1300 to them! (lower amounts for partially completed courses). Since pimping is a business (government approved) and the object is to make as much money as possible there is an obvious temptation to send as many people as possible no matter how literate or numerate they already are!

This is not to say that the courses may not be worthwhile for some, but I would be very wary of any attempt to send me on such a course. I think you should be too.

[Chester6]

Follow the money!!!!

Learn Direct get paid from European Social Fund money. They pay a commission to the pimp for everyone sent to them for an ESF funded course. This is a good earner for the pimp since each candidate completing a course is worth £1300 to them! (lower amounts for partially completed courses). Since pimping is a business (government approved) and the object is to make as much money as possible there is an obvious temptation to send as many people as possible no matter how literate or numerate they already are!

This is not to say that the courses may not be worthwhile for some, but I would be very wary of any attempt to send me on such a course. I think you should be too.

ECDL and NVQ are worthwhile(hopefully) but basic courses are a waste of time for me but not them in terms of money

It does seem like the pimps have it made with how many different ways to make money and not being held accountable when they suck at their job, have terrible success rates and terrible in general as they fail so many people

 

PS - mods, is there many words to avoid?

[jasta11]

are these learndirect courses worth it? I completed an ECDL and a NVQ which is worth it but they wanted me to do a basic sounding maths and English ugh

 

Chester, the Level 2 Business Admin course I did (7 days) may sound a grand title but at no point did anyone do any ACTUAL admin work! First couple of days were simple reading about H&S, Employment Legislation, Ethnic & Diversity, Conservation, etc. NO practical work. Then there were some mulit-choice tests which was the actual 'exam' - all very basic.

 

Next few days were spent simply discussing office procedures ; how to use a fax, organise meetings etc, - again NO practical assignments. Followed by more multi-choice tests. You'll end up with a qualification in a subject without ever having actually done it practically. It's a theoretical qualification at best and, if you have prior admin skills - which you and me both have - it's really totally pointless and does not enhance employability in the slightest. If you went on a bricklaying course, you'd expect to actually lay bricks at some point, wouldn't you

 

Interesting what Bakatcha posted; that Ingeus get paid for sending people on courses - I thought they might. I think I'll contact the DWP with a view to a fraud or malpractice investigation into Ingeus. They seem to have sent me on a totally useless course (in my case) purely to suit their own ends.

 

May I say again it wasn't the fault of the people at Learninging Links; I was treated extremely well while I did the course. I believe they only teach up to Level 2 so if you have an NVQ 3 in anything, they probably won't be able to get you on a course. Hope this helps.

[antone]

PS - mods, is there many words to avoid?

 

Not quite sure what you mean. We prefer folks to keep the tone polite and civil, and we're not mad keen of foul language. Also, of course, remarks that are libelous or otherwise could get us in legal trouble. Is there something specific you were concerned about?

[Chester6]

Chester, the Level 2 Business Admin course I did (7 days) may sound a grand title but at no point did anyone do any ACTUAL admin work! First couple of days were simple reading about H&S, Employment Legislation, Ethnic & Diversity, Conservation, etc. NO practical work. Then there were some mulit-choice tests which was the actual 'exam' - all very basic.

 

Next few days were spent simply discussing office procedures ; how to use a fax, organise meetings etc, - again NO practical assignments. Followed by more multi-choice tests. You'll end up with a qualification in a subject without ever having actually done it practically. It's a theoretical qualification at best and, if you have prior admin skills - which you and me both have - it's really totally pointless and does not enhance employability in the slightest. If you went on a bricklaying course, you'd expect to actually lay bricks at some point, wouldn't you

 

Interesting what Bakatcha posted; that Ingeus get paid for sending people on courses - I thought they might. I think I'll contact the DWP with a view to a fraud or malpractice investigation into Ingeus. They seem to have sent me on a totally useless course (in my case) purely to suit their own ends.

 

May I say again it wasn't the fault of the people at Learninging Links; I was treated extremely well while I did the course. I believe they only teach up to Level 2 so if you have an NVQ 3 in anything, they probably won't be able to get you on a course. Hope this helps.

 

ECDL was a lot of reading and some questions plus practical stuff

the NVQ was tied to a placement as I am tired of placements that don't help so I thought a practical based NVQ may make a difference but that was used by learndirect to make money ( I didn't care as I hoped it would help) NVQ 2 - Customer services, the Learndirect side was a mess due to tutor changes, people not knowing what was going and (ironically) terrible customer service

I have prior admin from college which was 92-94 and things haven't changed much as technology is similar and so are phones etc

[jasta11]

I agree totally - I keep getting told to 'keep my skills current' and I always reply 'Apart from the introduction of computers and the internet (for which I already have 6 qualifications up to level 3) NOTHING has changed in office work this century; it's still the same old pen-pushing it always was, so exactly what skill do I need to update'???

 

Doing my own stuff at home often involves more complex 'office work' than an actual job; the business of job-hunting itself involves considerable admin skill, as we all know. In that sense, every one of us here is a skilled administrator.

 

They can never give me a sensible answer to this. As usual, they're just being seen to be doing something - especially if they get a payment for it.

Edited February 1, 2013 by jasta11

[Chester6]

I agree totally - I keep getting told to 'keep my skills current' and I always reply 'Apart from the introduction of computers and the internet (for which I already have 6 qualifications up to level 3) NOTHING has changed in office work this century; it's still the same old pen-pushing it always was, so exactly what skill do I need to update'???

 

Doing my own stuff at home often involves more complex 'office work' than an actual job; the business of job-hunting itself involves considerable admin skill, as we all know. In that sense, every one of us here is a skilled administrator.

 

They can never give me a sensible answer to this. As usual, they're just being seen to be doing something - especially if they get a payment for it.

 

If they didn't keep sending people on placement and basic courses that many don't actually need ( I know of many who get sent on basic maths and english which is what I am thinking of) then there wouldn't be anything they could do to look like they are actually making a difference and the placements are just something to tick off rather then something many actually need, I know of someone who was looking for mechanic/garage work and got stuck in a charity shop and that was totally wrong for her job seeking needs but easy for the placement providers

[G4C389]

According to popular myth, Building Contractors used to visit Building Site to Building Site, finding work on spec.... that has changed over recent decades, and even for retail jobs, the task of securing a job is more difficult than simply walking into a shop and handing in a CV.

 

Talking of CVs my friend who now attends ingeus said that his advisor on one appointment said to hand CVs in the area (a big shop area) and then to come back on and tell her what shops he had handed them in to, he refused and he said her good mood soon went as she said oh alright just e-mail me them then, he wants to know what this was about. And what's better out if personal and vocational routeways?

[fxmaster]

Ingeus just makes me feel depressed my adviser treats me like rubbish puts me on jobs which i won't even last a day on, keeps putting me on the most boring workshops(she actually tried to put me on for every single workshop they did). If i could do the jobs they are asking me to do i wouldn't be on ESA..... And she hands my number companies who are probably attached to ingeus setting me up with interviews which again i won't be able to do. They send me on interviews with out even telling me what the role is, these people are so frustrating they shouldn't be aloud to run the way they do.

[BomBomBom]

Are the mock interviews compulsory?

 

I have one in a few weeks and I really don't want to go to it. I'm at college four days a week and spend every night applying for jobs and yet I'm STILL at the stage where I'm being made to attend all these mock interviews and CV building days. I've been on the Jobcentre since February and since then I've had three CV building sessions, a two day job fair, two confidence building workshops and now two mock interviews. The first mock interview was straight after I arrived at Ingeus so it wasn't that big a deal for me but I'm not missing a day of college just to travel down on a smelly bus for an hour in a shirt and tie for a bloody mock interview. I've already had a bunch of successful interviews (two to get into college, one for a seasonal job at Butlins and one at Teleperformance that I later turned the job down for because I couldn't meet the hours) so it's not like I need any further help. I'm so ****ed off that I'm getting made to do all these things, and I'm sick of them asking me "so what jobs have you applied for?". I spend all my time on Gumtree, Universal Jobmatch, Indeed and other websites and there's no way I'm going to sit there and repeat them all back to you when I've just went and done the same thing for the Jobcentre!

 

Ugh! Someone please tell me I don't need to do this mock interview?

[signmaker]

I was told that I had to go and do a mock interview some months ago with Ingeus and was told to dress appropriately for an interview, well, I went in a T-shirt with skulls and studs, a leather biker jacket and jeans, they also said that the interview was going to be video recorded.

 

I attended and told them that I was not going to be filmed, the interveiwer said it was policy, so I told him that there was not going to be an interview then, he went out of the room to speak to his supervisor, came back and said it was ok, no mention to my attire, yes I was being awkward but why should they tell you how to dress, (he didn't ask if I had interview clothes) and what right do these people think they have to film you during a mock interview.

I can understand why they might want to look back on it to improve tecniques.

 

If you want your u/b you have to tick the boxes and go along with what they ask, you could plead your case and explain that you are competent with interview skills.

good luck.