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    • I'm sure I've said before that it's fine and dandy bringing in rules that favour you or your party, but you have to consider how it would play out if your opponents get in and want to use the same rules...
    • Its Gaelic celebration and bonfires today - Beltane Quite fortuitous for tomorrow lets hope
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    • Few tweaks as the run order was completely messed up and the main point of your defence (reconstituted agreement) pushed to the bottom of the statement.   I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. 1.The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act. 2.  I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. 3. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 4.  I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020. 5. The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’. The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents. 6. Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018. 7. Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicitor's is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’ 8. On (insert date) I successfully made application to set a side the judgment. The claim proceeded to allocation, 9. The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date. (insert date you did receive the documents) I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’. Remove irrelevant 10.The claimant relies upon and has exhibited a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement. It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HHJ Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’. The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause. 11. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not mislead the court. 12. It is denied I have ever received a default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.The claimant is put to strict proof to evidence from the original creditors internal document software the trigger of said notice.  13.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. 14. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024   Run 3 copies Court /Claimants Sol/File
    • As one of you mentioned above I've been in a mess for nearly 20 years now and I'm ready to sort my credit report out now - the main reason I got into second round of debt is my kids being unwell and the state considering them not unwell enough for extra help so despite my son being in hospital for 3 months in one year we got extra zero help and I eventually lost my job and got into debt to just so I can be تا my sons hospital bed at his time of need - my life basically fell apart and all these debts got me again 
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claim form for 9,000 for wifes credit card from 2004 - no NOA? *sorted under a TOmlin Order*


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I have been fighting with a charming bunch of solicitors acting on behalf of an intransigent debt collection agency.

I showed the agreement to a firm of solicitors who act on a no win no fee basis and have a really good reputation.

 

They said they were unable to take the case on as there was not a reasonable chance of success

and having been issued with a County Court summons, my best move was to settle by means of a Tomlin Order.

 

Now whilst i understand the basis of a Tomlin order,

part of the draft agreement requires annual reviews on the basis of the scrutiny of an income and expenditure form.

 

If no agreement is made on the annual review amount then either side can take it to the court for a judge

to determine the ongoing repayment amount.

 

Who would be liable for the court costs?

I am just very wary that they will try and force an amount we cannot afford

and attempt to bully us into agreeing rather than be liable for court fees.

 

How do I prevent that situation occurring?

 

Thanks.

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The schedule should contain the clause each party to bear their own costs.If in the event there is need for recourse to the Court.The annual review is a standard requirement of a TO and in most cases can be decided between the parties without court intervention.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Without knowing the DCA and their legal firm we can't help much further... they could be a well known team on this site.

 

Have you acknowledged the CCJ yet, it isn't a cut and dried thing that it may be granted against you - if you do not acknowledge it online then you will get a judgement by default.

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They are a very well known team on here.

To be fair, the actual agreement looks fairly robust,

even though it dates from 2004,

 

the only possible chinks in their armour would appear to be things such as method of delivery of assignment,

no termination of agreement.

They have stated that they will address those matters by way of pro forma docs and affadavits.

 

All shaky ground I suspect these days with the legal system appearing to be happy to ignore the strict law and use a near enough approach...

 

Its been dragging on for about 5 months now with lots of stays to negotiate a settlement.

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Without naming them you are leaving yourself wide open, I can't give any more advice now.

 

If you think it is shaky ground then a Tomlin Order won't give you any protection at all.

 

Without knowing the firm and seeing the particulars of claim this is as good as admitting that you are wasting your time posting on here.

 

The other question is when was the last payment by you on this account, to the original creditor and to any DCA collecting.

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Hi, I was just asking for opinion on the wording of a particular facet on the Tomlin order :

e.g. Court costs if they (the DCA) want the court to adjudicate.

 

Whilst I really appreciate your interest, at the mo that's all I need to know about at the mo.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?308720-jon888999-vs-AK-***Settled-Via-Tomlin-Order-***

 

My circs. are broadly similar to this thread if that helps.

 

Thanks.

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I have no idea about the costs element, you are daft to sign something when you can defend it and maybe have it dismissed or discontinued.

 

A Tomlin order is admitting to the debt in its entirety and if you miss one single payment by one single day they can have you in court very quickly.

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Well i appreciate what you are saying, but maybe I would be 'daft' to risk a CCJ with the additional costs and aggravation that would make me liable for. I have negotiated a substantial discount off the 'asking price' already.

 

If I miss a payment I have 14 days to rectify the missing payment, which is a nominal amount anyway.

 

I have (touch wood) got rid of several large debts with the aid of CAG, so to get hit for just one is not too onerous in the scheme of things. But thanks for your positive advice.

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I have been party to a number of mediations that have resulted in Tomlin Orders

and only 1 debtor has had to pay the costs.

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Ok Brig, that sounds promising. Just don't want to get stitched up any more than I have to!

 

the orders are advantageous, low payment level,simple

to work and no CCJ.

I have seen £5 per month for 40 years.:madgrin:

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As to spouses income they have no need

to know any detail of income unless you

have a joint account.

Straight foward I&E,

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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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It's your debt and your money going to be paying

it off, you are still and always will be in charge of

your money if your circumstances have not changed

then nor will the order.

Is this paid by standing order??

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  • 1 month later...

No, the court will look at your outgoings, it is not in the interest of the courts nor is it under English law your partners problem or debt ( only if in joint names ). If the court started that malarkey you would see a lot of skulduggery by people moving out and saying they were on there own... Remember the debacle of the CSA at first when it took partners wages into consideration, it caused more hassle than it was worth and would have been challenged in the high court so the government brought in a simple formula. YOUR DEBT, YOUR OUTGOINGS YOUR INCOME

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Happyhippy1959

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  • 1 year later...

About 18 months ago I used a firm of solicitors to beat off a off 3 DCA's who appeared to have valid agreements and wanted to proceed to court.

 

Two of them were defeated, never to be seen again.

 

The third, although deficient in a couple of small areas, had a good enough case to win.

In the end we agreed a Tomlin order for a sum of just over £9,000..

 

Things havn't improved financially at Baloney towers so we need to move.

There's not much equity in the house, but what there is we need to help fund the move.

 

My problem is that there is a clause contained deep within the order that,

'The defendant consents to the claimant obtaining a voluntary charge or charging order over the defendants interest in the property..'

 

It wasn't an issue at the time as if we went to court and lost, which seemed likely,

I would have had lots more legal fees to find and they would have gone for a charging order anyway.

 

Any solutions or suggestions folks?

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it'll be worth checking with the land registry to see if there is actually a charge or restriction registered.

 

 

If anything it would have to be registered as a restriction rather than a legal charge

and there is no obligation to pay them via the sale -

only an obligation on the solicitor to let them know that the house has been sold.

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I think the 'charging order' would only have been applied if the terms of payment contained in the TO were not met, this is quite common.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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