How long till another Beryl Brazier case?

[DonkeyB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12986314

 

I have noticed recently that many DCAs and debt buyers are stretching the debt collection guidelines to their limits – and beyond – in the methods they use. There’s a return of tactics such as ‘we have a judgment against you’ (admin errors, of course), and telling people they have no defence to a claim (misleading), as well as the usual ‘bailiffs will call at your house’.

 

This alarming rise in debt-related health issues is to be expected in a recession, but that’s exactly the time when the OFT, Trading Standards and all the other ineffective regulatory bodies should be doing some real work to curb the disgusting and probably illegal practices of many DCAs and debt buyers.

 

I’d hate to be looking back on this thread in a couple of months saying ‘I told you so’ when someone has topped themselves because of the unregulated and illegal actions of a DCA or debt buyer.

 

Rant over.

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

 

NB: If you are prescribed SSRI's or even Duloxetine, which is a stronger SNRI, PLEASE be aware that these drugs, in particular being prescribed for mild/medium and medium/serious depression react badly with certain other medications, such as duloxetine reacts extremly badly with tramadol. ASK the pharmacist or GP to check if it's ok to take them!

 

I'm comenting on this issue due to a follow on link about which drugs are being commonly prescribed. Thanks to Cerb for keeping me on topic

Edited April 7, 2011 by babybear39

[coledog]

Really disturbing - let us hope that OFT take all this into account

[DonkeyB]

There’s a couple of Caggers who were around until a month or three ago who were quite clearly seriously near the edge and being constantly harassed. They have disappeared from CAG, sadly.

 

Such individuals are not fully capable of dealing with their own affairs and writing the letters that are needed, however many posts we make. I dare say there have been many Beryl Brazier-type cases we simply have not heard of.

 

At least the law has now been changed to make creditors consider a debtor’s mental state, but how many do? How many have processes which at every – or indeed any – stage consider the mental state of the debtor?

[Halibutt]

My feeling is that (from past experience, both personal and with friends/aquaintances) if a DCA feels that someone is at risk because of mental or physical ill-health, then they are seen as an "easier target" and are often pursued more vigourously. Appalling behaviour, I know, but DCAs by their very nature, are only after one thing - profit at any cost

[babybear39]

My feeling is that (from past experience, both personal and with friends/aquaintances) if a DCA feels that someone is at risk because of mental or physical ill-health, then they are seen as an "easier target" and are often pursued more vigourously. Appalling behaviour, I know, but DCAs by their very nature, are only after one thing - profit at any cost

 

I quite agree. It happened to me three years ago

[harrassed senior]

Thanks for starting this thread, I too can bring to mind at least 2 members of CAG who were prolific in posting and as said have sadly dissapeared off the radar.

 

However, just recently some of us have felt able to 'open up' about our 'personal problems' in relation to health issues, both past and present, and for this I personally say a big 'thank you' to all of you who have been supportive.

 

Debt has a stigma, but it should not have, and only the desipicable industry that has sadly grown up around it, can be to blame. I have often said that if they chose a different approach to threats, many a life would be saved and many a debt would perhaps be repaid at least in part if they would only be prepared to listen to reason and doubt people less.

 

Of course there will always be the 'wont pay' people in debt, but to go at every debtor and assume they are a 'wont pay' is indeed the wrong way to approach people and puts' all the genuine 'can't pay' people at serious risk to their life and well being.

 

Personally, I will admit to a sleepless night as I prepare to do battle with one of the nastier agencies, but, with the help of caggers I will survive to come out the other side, sadly as said at the start of this thread, some sadly may not.

[rockwell304]

Thanks for starting this thread, I too can bring to mind at least 2 members of CAG who were prolific in posting and as said have sadly dissapeared off the radar.

 

However, just recently some of us have felt able to 'open up' about our 'personal problems' in relation to health issues, both past and present, and for this I personally say a big 'thank you' to all of you who have been supportive.

 

Debt has a stigma, but it should not have, and only the desipicable industry that has sadly grown up around it, can be to blame. I have often said that if they chose a different approach to threats, many a life would be saved and many a debt would perhaps be repaid at least in part if they would only be prepared to listen to reason and doubt people less.

 

Of course there will always be the 'wont pay' people in debt, but to go at every debtor and assume they are a 'wont pay' is indeed the wrong way to approach people and puts' all the genuine 'can't pay' people at serious risk to their life and well being.

 

Personally, I will admit to a sleepless night as I prepare to do battle with one of the nastier agencies, but, with the help of caggers I will survive to come out the other side, sadly as said at the start of this thread, some sadly may not.

 

 

One particular Cagger who disappeared a few months ago comes to mind. His posts were becoming increasingly paranoid, various posts include references to departing the scene forever etc. Very sad to hear.

 

I realise this is an open and anonymous forum but just wondering in extreme cases is it possible for someone on the team to give posters like this a nudge to see if everything is ok?

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Hi guys, this is a sad thread to read. I've been an silent (ish) observer for a few years but the stress and anxiety finding myself in this situation still haunts me. At the time I came close to the brink, but came through the worst. Whilst I didn't feel strong enough to refuse to pay or go bankrupt, but the posters on this site did give me the strength and confidence to challenge the incessent calls and get them stopped. Now nearly 2 years into a DMP the phone call from a DCA whom I 'know' about nevertheless still turned my stomach. But this site has given me the strength to stand firm. I am (I believe) intelligent with a good job who should be strong enough to laugh in the face of these bullies. I feel desperately angry and sad for people who are receiving these calls day in and day out from companies that are simply the 'legal' version of the old style door knockers. It disgusts me to the core. A huge 'thank' you to the people on here who pour a huge amount of time and energy into understanding the nuances of the regulations, create the letter templates and give advice - often the same advice - repeatedly. I often go 'quiet' when work and life consumes my time and I hope that that is the reason why many poster drop off. We can but hope.

[Rayne]

i suffered from depressive illness for yrs, it cost me a marriage and reduced me to alchoholism for what seemed like an eternity. Then just as i felt like I was coming through it, the dca's started in, and so I buried my head in the sand again n the hope that they would go away. Worked with a couple but not most. Even now, years later it rears its ugly head from time to time. The difference now is that I can recognise most times the symptoms before it really gets its claws in, and can take appropriate measures. But it also recently cost me a dodgy ccj that i failed to defend as i was more concerned about my own health that whatever those scummers could throw at me. Difference now is that i recognise them for what they are, and their motivations and methods. Sadly, not everyone is as fortunate at getting the help they need that I was and they become another statistic, driven over the final edge by another person or corporation's greed. Its about time that the toothless regulatory bodies were held to account for their own inaction in such cases, as well as the industry's behaviour. Corporate manslaughter, if there is such a thing, would be a good place to start imho

[Desperate Daniella]

Thank you for starting this thread. I started something similar some months ago, hoping to get a campaign started, but it petered out, probably due to my having to cope with so much other stuff. We'd got as far as thinking we needed someone famous to front it, or maybe several supporters.

 

Currently there is an inquest on this poor man, and it seems likely that his worries about his debts contributed to what happened.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1299908/Claim-debt-laden-Andrew-Case-stabbed-wife-killed-children-inquest-opens.html

 

As usual, on the BBC report you have linked us to, there are references to National Debtline and CCCS, but EVERY TIME there is a report like this there should also be a reference to CAG, because CAG is the real life-saver.

 

I was absolutely besides myself before I discovered CAG. If it hadn't been for my daughter asleep upstairs I would have driven my car into the river. Why? Because I had been so absolutely terrified by Allied International Credit. They frightened me to death. I thought I would be evicted from my home within a month for the sake of owing money to Amex. All lies, of course, but how could I know that? And, more to the point, how can anyone who is getting those very same calls today know they are lying either?

 

Just before AI, I'd had a call from a total b**tard at Mercers, again demanding I gave him all the money in my account despite my saying it was all I had for food.

 

CCCS did help me, although I didn't go along with their idea of a payment plan. I'd called the FSA for help because I was so desperate and they put me in touch with CCCS, and as soon as I got a reference number AI backed off completely.

 

However, I didn't have anyone to actually talk to. I knew there must be other people in my situation but I didn't know how to contact them until, thank God, I found CAG.

 

Apart from the absolutely brilliant advice the site offers, it also offers friendship. It may be cyber-friendship, but it's friendship with people who actually understand what you are going through. I would never have thought I could actually laugh about debt but I learned that you can, and that it can be really empowering when you learn to fight back with the DCAs.

 

If you are debt-ridden and it all seems out of control you have no money to go anywhere, and that is where this site can help. You can log on and have immediate support and contact with the outside world. I'm assuming press releases are being sent out regularly to all papers, columnists, TV and radio? I hope they are being sent out every time there is a report on someone killing themselves due to debt, because really CAG needs a much higher profile and we need to get the press to mention CAG.

 

By all means use NDL or CCCS, but even if you just want to let off steam or just have a giggle, CAG is there for you, and I think that is a very important point to get across to the public.

 

Incidentally, if you google "Help with Debt", CAG doesn't come up - at least not on the first four pages of answers. Yet CAG, more than any other organisation, actually does help. We actually do care about the other people on this forum. If someone is going to court, they will come back to find posts asking how they got on. When Rooster died, and when babybear was so ill, we all cared. That is what makes this site so unique, and really it is very important to publicise that. Lots of journalists write about debt so let's make sure they all know about CAG.

 

DD

[babybear39]

That case is terible DD. Not read it before. Thanks for posting.

 

Hope you and yours are all OK...

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi babybear,

 

We are all okay, thank you. Hope you are too.

 

That is a terrible case. I can understand his despair, but why do people take their children with them? That is just so wrong and so sad.

 

Love,

DDx

[brokebutnotbeatn]

We all know that to have got as far as an IVA this family would have been hounded by their creditors. We know becasue we all are - even when taking steps to sort it out. Such a shame that there are no 'guests' reading this thread. When they do I hope those in debt become members and those that are not reflect accordingly.

Babybear. I dropped off the site for a while. You were one of those posters that helped me through initially. I'm sorry you were ill and glad to hear you are OK now. x

[brokebutnotbeatn]

I was talking with someone last night about this and about depression. We likened it to having days when we fell into a black hole. We'd climb out and then fall into another one. But over time and with help from those around us, including CAGGERS the holes reduced in size, number and depth. For other people this isn't the case, the hole they are in just gets larger and deeper. x

[babybear39]

We all know that to have got as far as an IVA this family would have been hounded by their creditors. We know becasue we all are - even when taking steps to sort it out. Such a shame that there are no 'guests' reading this thread. When they do I hope those in debt become members and those that are not reflect accordingly.

Babybear. I dropped off the site for a while. You were one of those posters that helped me through initially. I'm sorry you were ill and glad to hear you are OK now. x

 

Alive and kicking much to the dismay of the DCA industry

 

[EDIT] had a go at me last June and got short shrift.

 

Been out of hospital just about a year now. Things are a challenge but I'm doing fine considering

 

Thank you for remembering we helped.

 

Good luck and best wishes, BB.

Edited April 7, 2011 by alanfromderby

[harrassed senior]

Well I for one hope that this thread remains near the top of the listings for as long as possible as I am sure that many people just 'passing through' may find just what they are searching for, not just friendly advice, but true (cyber) friends who really care.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

A friend of Me & 'The Wifes' (sorry H), ws beside herself with worry about being in debt, she was getting all the usual guff you expec from a DCA, she even had several visits. Cut a long story short:

 

One late afternoon Me & H were coming home from the hospital, H see this chap walking up with clipboard in hand, although H is particially sighted, she said 'don't like the look of him', I sent her inside and I sayed by the gate with my foot against it because I'm half expecting a 'visit', but this chap wnt to our friends across the way, tapped on the door, then tapped on her window, our friends two daughters were in & they dashed upstairs (I was told later), I went out the gate and asked what he thinks he's playing at, he asked me if **** was in and if I knew her, I just told him I am not going to answer his questions & that he should disappear, he went. Some hours later I caught my friend, told her what I see & did, she told me what it was about, so the following morning I dropped a 'doorstep visit' letter template through the door for her to complete & send etc, then I gave her the CCA letter, account in dispute letter along wih half a dozen others and explained to her what she needs to send & when, what to do if they phone or visit and if she experiences problems with a 'doorstep agent', just to phone me as I am literly 10 seconds from her gate. Before she spoke to me about whats been going on she was very low, not leeping at nights, now she knows that she has rights and there are people out there that can help, she has been sleeping better & generally feels better in herself and before anyone asks yes I did point her in the dirction of CAG because there is only so many things I can advise on.

 

DC

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi DC,

 

She was very lucky that you came home at just the right moment because, from what you have said, she wasn't going to confide in you and was dealing with it all on her own. I know what it's like to run upstairs too. I wouldn't actually care about seeing them off but I wouldn't want my neighbours to witness it.

 

I do hope she has now joined CAG!

 

DD

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Hi DD, I have pointed her in this direction.

 

Our friends daughters were frightened & dashed upstairs, the cheeky a***hole went & peaked in her window, I feel I didn't really have a choice but to step in, I had already guessed...tell a lie...H guessed this chap was a debt collector, at the time I was in no mood for swapping pleasantries with a debt collector, now I am 20+ stone and I just said to him after he asked me if I know ****, 'I am not gong to answer your questions, I don't know who you think you are but I would strongly suggest you disappear', since then our friend hasn't had any phone calls or visits. I have since told my friend to tell her daughters that if this man comes again if they're on their own to either call me (if I'm at home) or call the Police if they feel threatened.

 

It makes my blood boil as to how these companies can get away with this, I admit at one point I was close to throwing myself in the Thames as we only live 5 minutes walk from the river.

[watchinginvestigation2011]

I agree that these companies when know there are medical conditons involved rather than help as in treading carefully with threats and intimidation, acutally label us soft touches. I have one case where they are demading detailsed intimate history from doctors etc......yet they are not responding to proof of alleged debt request, they keep refering me to oc, so I believe there is no proof. They actually said to me a lot of people claim to have mental health problems to avoid debt:!: Yep I didnt make it up and hope I will find the call on true call for the relevant authorities Been finding some helpful ones lately

 

So its acceptable to step up threats, which incidently I am ignoring now, yet they dont send the proof.

 

They keep saying that unless I send the medical records they are not going to send me to the apparant team who deals with people like me and the heavy mob I presume will carry on.

 

I say bog off, last time I sent medical records of it was to abbey/santander and they on three occassions said they didnt have them or mislaid them, yet were ignoring me for my complaint of them miselling a loan xx

 

I will provide such evidence to a nice judge, if they 'may' take me to court xx

 

Very good thread

 

I mean I know my rights, so will make sure I switch off and demand proof of alleged debt be provided but before cag I was a wreck when they called and actually feared the phone ringing.

 

If anyone can get one get a true call, I know they are about 100.00, but I love it, zapp mr nasty who cant then get through on that number again, also more importantly you catch the 'gets' at there best, let them try denying intimidation to a judge when you have it recorded!! xx

Edited April 7, 2011 by watchinginvestigation2011

[Delta-Charlie-76]

They have no right to private information about you, only a court judge has that. If we had £100, I would gladly buy a truecall but then again on the occassions I am bored and in the mood for an argument then there'll be no fun.

 

The most recent company to chase me NCO Europe are the most argumentative a***holes I have had the pleasure of dealing with, when you've said your piece and argued the point that the're wrong and have the points to back it up, you put the phone down, they phone back to have the last say. Unfortunately not everyone is able to do it for various reasons, my wife argues with them if they phone if she's upto it, she isn't always, sadly as this recession/credit crunch whatever goes on there will be plenty more people like this poor lady.

 

In my opinion that if a DCA drives someone to commit suicide, then these companies should be had up on Coperate (spelling?) manslaughter!

[watchinginvestigation2011]

ps. Can record calls also with mobile phone on record sound held to earpiece, thats what I did prior to true call and stored on computer.

 

Correct delta, they have no right, but say to me unless I provide it they will not treat me as told them I have the condition, so say it is my own fault if they get heavy. I know its carp as once you point out they should make a note, I say go to court then and say that to a judge who would if found I had a liability take token payment and then dca has to back off. They replied we dont have to even if court judgement respected and followed as set and kept up being heavy. Of course they would have to prove the alleged debt to a court first:wink:

 

I will let them have enough rope to hang themselves with thats all:madgrin:

 

To be honest it still affects me, but at least I know I can ignore till well enough to fight and with recording them I have got any proof I need xx

Edited April 7, 2011 by watchinginvestigation2011

[paulh1818]

Very disturbing to read these stories. All the more disturbing for knowing exactly what it feels like. When my debt problems started I was terrified and took to leaving an iron bar near the front door. I also remember my wife disappearing for a while then returning home in floods of tears. She had been to the Dr's and had broken down in the surgery. She ended up being prescribed anti depressants. We lived like this for just over a year with more debts mounting. It really felt like living in a time bomb. Then I found cag. I must have spent 30 hours solid reading posts here before saying to my wife 'I think we can handle this...' And just like that our lives changed. I asked for advice and good advice was given. I don't know where I'd be or what I'd be doing now if it wasn't for cag.

[Desperate Daniella]

What you say is so true. We actually can handle it if we join CAG because, as you'll now know, information is power.