Airlines not refunding tax on flights not taken

[HSBCrusher]

BBC News - Airlines 'fail to refund taxes' says Which?

 

Caggers would know how to deal with this one!

[buzby]

I'm game. How? Especially if it costs £20 to get back a tax of £11.....

[HSBCrusher]

costs 20 quid? It doesnt cost the airline that!

 

If I had a reasonable amount to claim back, I would be asking exactly how much it costs them.. several pence.

 

Its a [problem] good and proper.

[Guest Mrs Hobbit]

Oh yes, claim it back and let them see that they are to be as responsible as the other institutions

[rebel11]

The only way forward is a class action, everyone who has cancelled a flight subscribes to a website for zero costs. The group then take

the airlines to court to recover the tax with compounded interest.

[buzby]

Ah - it's an aspiration, not a foregone conclusion. I think it important to differentiate beteween what we'd like and what we'd get - should we challenge.

 

The airlines are up front, they state clearly what the costs of cancellation are within their T&C's, so you;ll be piddling in the wind if you trhink you can challenge this on the basis YOU think it unreasonable. They've told you their tariff, and if you book, you agree.

 

Bitching after-the-event is a recipe for failure. We already know this, as the Telecom charges for bot paying by DD or LAte Paying are stipulated within the price list, and the courts have geld that onlt if these charges are hidden would they be unfair to the consumer. The issue of whether they are 'reasonable' and represent the costs actually incurred is not the issue, that's a different argument, and one best taken by a regulator.

 

Class Action? No such thing in English or Scottish Law, I'm afraid.

[HSBCrusher]

they should give you the tax back. It costs them very little to do so.. and just because its writtem into a contract up front that doesn't make it fair.

[buzby]

What's FAIRNESS got to do with anything?

 

We don't live in a schoolyard utopia where if you point out something is unfair, it is resolved. Further, you are not in any position to guestimate how 'little' it costs them. Easyjet makes no charge, BA and the Ryanair and the rest do. But they DO have this in their Terms of Cancellation. If you don't like it, you don't book. (Or go with EasyJet).

 

I can see a Judge weeping with despair when your case is summed up as 'it's not fair'....

[HSBCrusher]

Buzby, CAG was based on the premise of fairness, and consumers reclaiming the right, whether or not there are unfair (or even unlawful) terms in contracts... challenge the legality of these terms.

 

Bank charges/credit card charges/PPI reclaiming (and loads of other CAG stuff) is based on this and the fight goes on. This just strikes me as another example of bully boy tactics where the big kid takes the little kids sweets, and hides behind a contract, which is often difficult to understand.

 

I can see a Judge weeping with despair when your case is summed up as 'it's not fair'....

 

I have personally taken many banks and credit card companies to court and won back money taken unfairly and unlawfully, regardless of any contract. I would have no fear whatsoever in taking an airline to the courtroom.

 

If you don't get what cag is about after 4 years I doubt very much you ever will.

Edited July 11, 2010 by HSBCrusher

[Guest Mrs Hobbit]

We got our air taxes back when we had to cancel a flight. iu wrote a letter and explained I understood the costs incurred etc, but as the air taxes were not paid by the airline because we did not fly, I consider they should be refunded. This was a long haul flight and we got the full refund.

 

We also got refunded our fares less the admin charge.

[buzby]

CAG being founded on 'fairness' is one thing. Starting a thread where you imply Caggers know the score in a story regarding the refund of taxes and by implication, could avoid same was indeed misleading.

 

I think I have a fair idea what cag is about, I have 2k more posts than you for a start. But that's not the issue. What is misrepresenting an issue that somehow with the CAG forums assistance you can avoid this problem. Yet you do nothing to explain how, and better yet, the story you linked to was balanced in explaining the problems and the issues. Agreed it isn't 'fair' - but so's life.

[HSBCrusher]

No, life is not fair, but we are in the business of making it more fair.

 

an airline takes the tax but the flight is not taken, they keep the tax.

they then hide behind "costs" to prevent you getting your money back and keep the tax that does not belong to them.

 

we know its only going to cost them a few pence to get the tax refunded, a press of a button.

 

I have suggested that anyone with this issue who thinks they have been wrongly treated could try and get it back. After all.. its your money they are keeping. The banks tried this on, "we can charge you hundereds of pounds in charges, but its ok as its in our T&Cs..." the rest is history.

[MARTIN3030]

I have had tax back twice for cancelled flights-from 2 different companies without any penalties.

I also have 15586 more posts than Raymond:rolleyes:

[Bookworm]

Oooh, are we counting posts to judge competence now??? Can I play?

[buzby]

No, you get a tardy slip for being a day late.

[Bookworm]

I'm far away from civilisation, that's my excuse and I am sticking with it.

[MARTIN3030]

Yep too late Bookie.

[rebel11]

I'm afraid your mistaken,

Class action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Railtrack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Ah - it's an aspiration, not a foregone conclusion. I think it important to differentiate beteween what we'd like and what we'd get - should we challenge.

 

The airlines are up front, they state clearly what the costs of cancellation are within their T&C's, so you;ll be piddling in the wind if you trhink you can challenge this on the basis YOU think it unreasonable. They've told you their tariff, and if you book, you agree.

 

Bitching after-the-event is a recipe for failure. We already know this, as the Telecom charges for bot paying by DD or LAte Paying are stipulated within the price list, and the courts have geld that onlt if these charges are hidden would they be unfair to the consumer. The issue of whether they are 'reasonable' and represent the costs actually incurred is not the issue, that's a different argument, and one best taken by a regulator.

 

Class Action? No such thing in English or Scottish Law, I'm afraid.

[buzby]

I'm mistaken?

 

What thread are you commenting on?

 

It might be more helpful (assuming you wish to further the debate) that you state what point you are making. The first Wiki article explains the use of Class Action in US Courts, and for the second, Railtrack? Whatever next?

[rebel11]

This little gem

 

'Class Action? No such thing in English or Scottish Law, I'm afraid'

 

The first Wiki article states the following:-

'However, in several European countries with civil law different from the English common law principle (which is used by U.S. courts), changes have been made in recent years that allow consumer organizations to bring claims on behalf of large groups of consumers.However, in several European countries with civil law different from the English common law principle (which is used by U.S. courts), changes have been made in recent years that allow consumer organizations to bring claims on behalf of large groups of consumers.'

 

The second Wiki article demonstates that Class Actions have indeed taken

place in the U.K.

 

Theres nothing to debate. Debate over.

 

I'm mistaken?

 

What thread are you commenting on?

 

It might be more helpful (assuming you wish to further the debate) that you state what point you are making. The first Wiki article explains the use of Class Action in US Courts, and for the second, Railtrack? Whatever next?

[Thailand]

an airline takes the tax but the flight is not taken, they keep the tax.

they then hide behind "costs" to prevent you getting your money back and keep the tax that does not belong to them.

 

That's exactly how it is. An airline win-win revenue stream. Don't ask for it back and they win, ask for it back and they win. Good on easyJet for paying it back no quibble. The banks at least stuck together, whereas here, easyJet prove it to be a money making racket (as if we didn't know).

 

I'd like to see the likes of Ryanair prove their costs are £17 higher than easyJets, or argue that easyJet are absorbing a £17 loss every refund.

 

The point is though, I'd like to see any of them justify the fee covering admin.. hehe, bunch of greedingtons.

 

This really should be quite straight forward - do airlines really want to go to court to justify the fee? I know people have successfully reclaimed them, just not with Ryanair where service is an issue - though possible.

[buzby]

Very selective.

 

First - there is no 'Class Action' period. YOu can attempt to call it something else (oh wait a minute, you did), but you neglected to call it by its real name. But I digress. What you outline is a differewnt process. Whereas in the US, all it takes is an enterprising solicitor/lawyer to round up a list of aggrieved participants, taking a retainer from them in the process and when he recieves enough money to proceed - a 'call action is raised'.

 

Does this happen here? Nope, note chance. What you outlined was the Labout Government's attempt at giving consumer (and some other ORGAN ISATIONS the ability to make a 'SuperComplaint' that would then permit the raising of a legal action. Organisations include Trading Standards, and a few sundry 'watchdogs' (but not, I hasten to add, any BBC TV programme of a similar name).

 

A bunch of like minded individuals have no abiility to raise any issue (or 'super complaint') as they have no legal ability to do so, even if they had the backing of a suitably qualified agent/solicitor or even barrister.

 

So - sorry to burst your bubble. YOur selective reading of the links does you a serious injustice, and what I stated remains factually correct. For the circumstances previously stated the OP cannot start 'a class action; as it is not within his powers to do so.

[rebel11]

Buzby, if your considering a class action, you might consider these guys

Group &amp class action litigation lawyers, UK

 

Very selective.

 

First - there is no 'Class Action' period. YOu can attempt to call it something else (oh wait a minute, you did), but you neglected to call it by its real name. But I digress. What you outline is a differewnt process. Whereas in the US, all it takes is an enterprising solicitor/lawyer to round up a list of aggrieved participants, taking a retainer from them in the process and when he recieves enough money to proceed - a 'call action is raised'.

 

Does this happen here? Nope, note chance. What you outlined was the Labout Government's attempt at giving consumer (and some other ORGAN ISATIONS the ability to make a 'SuperComplaint' that would then permit the raising of a legal action. Organisations include Trading Standards, and a few sundry 'watchdogs' (but not, I hasten to add, any BBC TV programme of a similar name).

 

A bunch of like minded individuals have no abiility to raise any issue (or 'super complaint') as they have no legal ability to do so, even if they had the backing of a suitably qualified agent/solicitor or even barrister.

 

So - sorry to burst your bubble. YOur selective reading of the links does you a serious injustice, and what I stated remains factually correct. For the circumstances previously stated the OP cannot start 'a class action; as it is not within his powers to do so.

[buzby]

Nope. I'd never consider a class action, for the reasons already stated.

[HSBCrusher]

That's exactly how it is. An airline win-win revenue stream. Don't ask for it back and they win, ask for it back and they win. Good on easyJet for paying it back no quibble. The banks at least stuck together, whereas here, easyJet prove it to be a money making racket (as if we didn't know).

 

I'd like to see the likes of Ryanair prove their costs are £17 higher than easyJets, or argue that easyJet are absorbing a £17 loss every refund.

 

The point is though, I'd like to see any of them justify the fee covering admin.. hehe, bunch of greedingtons.

 

This really should be quite straight forward - do airlines really want to go to court to justify the fee? I know people have successfully reclaimed them, just not with Ryanair where service is an issue - though possible.

 

If I bought a TV via mail order, and then decided not to buy the TV would the company keep the VAT?

If I stopped working for an employer would they keep the tax for work I had not done?

 

This is just plain daft, easyjet can refund this money that doesn't belong to them, so can the rest of them.