Accused of shoplifting/theft falsely or otherwise?

[Hammy1962]

Whatever happened to JonCris then..................

 

Hammy

[jazie1990]

if only i had of known this before hand grrrrrrrrr

[bigsteve0000]

bigsteve - do you mean that they completely dropped the charges, including the fixed penalty of £80 ?

 

no fixed penalty was from the police. to get away from that we would have had to go to court and the wifes nerves would not stand that.

[edwardcullen]

I was wrongly accused today. I refused to go with security and told them to search my bags/ purse there and then. I then was walking away fuming and the security almost grabbed me when his colleague came and stopped him. I was then led to a room. Refused to say anything without a manager who came. They insisted I had taken a number of items and oaid for some. I showed them the receipts and what was in my possession. I complained about the fear the security gave me when he was so close to grabbing me and he admitted he was going to as I refused to go with him and admitted he stopped as his colleague turned up. I reiterated what he said and he then kept saying, ' I didn't grab you . I've be trained not to. You could sue me for assualt and I am trained'. I have been given a banning order from the whole mall yet I was/ am innocent. I had a bad experience last year which this forum helpped me with and am so careful that I never 'forget'- and I have health issues regarding this. The other security who escorted me from the mall told me he would not have banned me. It seems the banning has occurred because of the complaint I made. The manager never stayed around.

When they asked for my name and address I made it up..... I did not want RLP letters. Can I sue for the treatment, esp as I did not give details?

[rick89]

Nice one OP

[borisbeaver]

I was wrongly accused today. I refused to go with security and told them to search my bags/ purse there and then. I then was walking away fuming and the security almost grabbed me when his colleague came and stopped him. I was then led to a room. Refused to say anything without a manager who came. They insisted I had taken a number of items and oaid for some. I showed them the receipts and what was in my possession. I complained about the fear the security gave me when he was so close to grabbing me and he admitted he was going to as I refused to go with him and admitted he stopped as his colleague turned up. I reiterated what he said and he then kept saying, ' I didn't grab you . I've be trained not to. You could sue me for assualt and I am trained'. I have been given a banning order from the whole mall yet I was/ am innocent. I had a bad experience last year which this forum helpped me with and am so careful that I never 'forget'- and I have health issues regarding this. The other security who escorted me from the mall told me he would not have banned me. It seems the banning has occurred because of the complaint I made. The manager never stayed around.

When they asked for my name and address I made it up..... I did not want RLP letters. Can I sue for the treatment, esp as I did not give details?

If you gave false details, how can you sue them without giving them your real details.

[Hammy1962]

Whoa, a thread started by JonCris, now there's someone who went up with a puff of smoke, never to be seen again..........................

 

H

[maxxer]

Some of the advice given by this 'jonchris' person is, at the best, wrong, and at the worst could mean the difference between force being used on a person, which if they complied, wouldn't of been needed.

 

Refusing to budge, and standing on the shop floor 'for camera coverage' is completely wrong.

 

For a start, there's no store which covers every inch with cctv - and just because you can see a dome camera, it could be pointing the wrong way, looking at a different area, or not being recorded at that time. Not even being able to see yourself in the front door monitor is a sure fire winner - as some stores simply have the camera connected to the monitor, and that's it - no recording.

 

In maxx stores, the holding room has a camera in it, and a mic. So, rather than being your word against security, everything is recorded, and available for playback. Why, if totally innocent, would you give up the opportunity to have the entire episode recorded, for any future complaint.

 

If you refuse to return, most security will take that as you are going to attempt to escape, so a sit down in an office, out of public view, as to avoid any embarassment, turns into a guard holding you (so you don't think about walking off), stood waiting whilst the police come to talk to you (which, again, sets the scene for the police, that you are being obstructive from the word go).

 

I always used to ask the person 'have you ever been stopped before'. The reason - because they might not have been, and its not a pleasant experience. They won't know what's about to happen. They actually want to have it explained to them - and there are paperwork bits the store will go through, rlp being one, and a banning notice.

 

Dictating to the police what you have / haven't done, is to be done AFTER the guard has said their bit to the police. Interuppting them will make you come across as arogant, and may mean the difference between the police putting you in the van, or listening to your side, and making a decision which results in your release.

 

If you really forgot / haven't done it / have some sort of mental issues etc, then put your side to the police. Calmly, politely, and making sure that you only state the facts. Complaints are best left to a long letter, after requesting and reviewing the cctv etc the store has.

 

Complaining at the time, and to the store, will be seen as ranting, and may not be taken seriously. If you really want to make an impact, give it in a letter (not email, they can become too friendly), to head office.

[Anus Horribilis]

Some of the advice given by this 'jonchris' person is, at the best, wrong, and at the worst could mean the difference between force being used on a person, which if they complied, wouldn't of been needed.

 

Refusing to budge, and standing on the shop floor 'for camera coverage' is completely wrong.

 

For a start, there's no store which covers every inch with cctv - and just because you can see a dome camera, it could be pointing the wrong way, looking at a different area, or not being recorded at that time. Not even being able to see yourself in the front door monitor is a sure fire winner - as some stores simply have the camera connected to the monitor, and that's it - no recording.

 

In maxx stores, the holding room has a camera in it, and a mic. So, rather than being your word against security, everything is recorded, and available for playback. Why, if totally innocent, would you give up the opportunity to have the entire episode recorded, for any future complaint.

 

If you refuse to return, most security will take that as you are going to attempt to escape, so a sit down in an office, out of public view, as to avoid any embarassment, turns into a guard holding you (so you don't think about walking off), stood waiting whilst the police come to talk to you (which, again, sets the scene for the police, that you are being obstructive from the word go).

 

You are asking people to trust in the honesty and integrity of a minimum-wage rentaguard who has just falsely accused them of theft. That's a bit naive, and the suggestion that it may lead to force being used if they don't "comply" is nasty. I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound like a thuggish threat, but the wording you chose was unfortunate.

 

A security guard can perform a citizen's arrest, if they feel they have the grounds and they are prepared to face the consequences of an error. But the making of an arrest gives them no power to take you off to a little back room somewhere, and I agree with JonCris that an innocent shopper should refuse (guilty ones are not my concern).

 

Not all security guards have the high moral ethics of maxxer. Some will bully you, illegally search you, try to coerce confessions from you (eg under RLP), and some might even plant goods on you if they find they've made a mistake. Maybe a big store will have a reliable cctv system, or maybe it will be under the control of the security staff (eg tampering with it to conceal their treatment of the arrested person), or maybe they won't have one at all. If you allow yourself to be taken round the back, you might get what that phrase infers.

 

It is safer to remain where you are, in clear view of witnesses. If the security guards don't like that, ask yourself why they are so keen to get you out of sight and under their sole control? If the guard has clearly stated that he has arrested you, then you must remain until a constable arrives. Stand where you are, or walk to a nearby seat, without making any sudden or aggressive movements. If the shop guard wishes to hold your arm or stand between you and the door, that's fine.

 

While you are waiting, it's a good idea to call a trusted friend or relative and tell them what's happening - this will boost your confidence and flush out the misplaced guilt that arises in such situations. Also, take notes - times, dates, names. The guard has no right to prevent you from using your phone or writing down details.

 

Do not allow the shop guard to interfere with your shopping or clothing, do not allow them to "check your receipt". The moment for checking has passed, they have already accused you of a crime by making their arrest. Do not discuss the matter with them except to say that you are innocent, and you will be taking legal advice. Then wait for the professionals to arrive.

 

I agree with maxxer's final points about the post-police phase. Calm, measured, evidence-based and ruthlessly polite. Start shouting, and you've lost the game at the whistle.

[2Grumpy]

Some of the advice given by this 'jonchris' person is, at the best, wrong, and at the worst could mean the difference between force being used on a person, which if they complied, wouldn't of been needed.

 

Refusing to budge, and standing on the shop floor 'for camera coverage' is completely wrong.

 

For a start, there's no store which covers every inch with cctv - and just because you can see a dome camera, it could be pointing the wrong way, looking at a different area, or not being recorded at that time. Not even being able to see yourself in the front door monitor is a sure fire winner - as some stores simply have the camera connected to the monitor, and that's it - no recording.

 

In maxx stores, the holding room has a camera in it, and a mic. So, rather than being your word against security, everything is recorded, and available for playback. Why, if totally innocent, would you give up the opportunity to have the entire episode recorded, for any future complaint.

 

If you refuse to return, most security will take that as you are going to attempt to escape, so a sit down in an office, out of public view, as to avoid any embarassment, turns into a guard holding you (so you don't think about walking off), stood waiting whilst the police come to talk to you (which, again, sets the scene for the police, that you are being obstructive from the word go).

 

I always used to ask the person 'have you ever been stopped before'. The reason - because they might not have been, and its not a pleasant experience. They won't know what's about to happen. They actually want to have it explained to them - and there are paperwork bits the store will go through, rlp being one, and a banning notice.

 

Dictating to the police what you have / haven't done, is to be done AFTER the guard has said their bit to the police. Interuppting them will make you come across as arogant, and may mean the difference between the police putting you in the van, or listening to your side, and making a decision which results in your release.

 

If you really forgot / haven't done it / have some sort of mental issues etc, then put your side to the police. Calmly, politely, and making sure that you only state the facts. Complaints are best left to a long letter, after requesting and reviewing the cctv etc the store has.

 

Complaining at the time, and to the store, will be seen as ranting, and may not be taken seriously. If you really want to make an impact, give it in a letter (not email, they can become too friendly), to head office.

 

This is an alternative point of view. There are consequences to most actions. If you stay in the main body of the store (as is your right) then you might risk assault by the security people but their actions will be witnessed by many customers. If you go into the security room then you are relying on recording that might or might not be working (if there is any) and anything might happen if it's not.

 

I do agree with being polite to the police and trying to present your case clearly, but most people aren't equipped to deal with the situation.

[dx100uk]

thread closed

 

now for reference only

 

if you have any issues

 

start your own thread

 

dx