DCA quoting McGuffick v RBS Judgement -where do I stand now

[twinkle1977]

yeah, I sent that letter to hillesden, who appear to be the ones instructing aktiv kapital. maybe i'll resend it to AK as well then!!

 

I already sent (earlier before that great letter #45) another account in dispute letter.

 

Thank you!!

[twinkle1977]

having sent the telephone harrasment letter and account in dispute letter to aktiv kapital in June, today, they phoned my parents house - where I have not lived for several years!!

[cerberusalert]

Make a complaint to Trading Standards via Consumer Direct Consumer Direct - Contact us

 

AK have your contact details by 'phoning your parents they're harassing you.

[fuzzybobble]

Hillesdens cannot provide a CCA for me. But they continue sending begging letters despite the account being in dispute and they are in breach of OFT guidelines for doing this. So I wrote and told them I would invoice them for £25 each time I have to reply to them. As soon as it gets to £150 and they refuse to pay it, then a court claim goes in for the £150 plus costs.

 

When it comes to DCA's earn some cash for having to spend time replying to their rubbish threat-o-grams.

[twinkle1977]

ok.

complaint done via the website.

Email received from my snotty one sent this afternoon to aktiv saying its been passed to the right department.

fed up of hillesden and their cronies. I will not be intimidated by those idiots.

Let me know how the £25 per letter goes. Hillesden are really sticking to this mcguffick thing in my case. Are they doing this to everyone?

 

Thanks for your help

[Duffers Mum]

have they not sent you a reconstructed agreement? I've received one (not from Hillesden) which I have no doubt they will say is enforceable on the back of this McGuffick thing, I also think DCA's will be sending out reconstructions as a matter of course over the coming months, will be interesting to see what happens when a DCA goes to court with one (hoping its not mine!)

 

Stick to your guns, in fact I would be inclined to file the letters away under C for Cretins (my file is getting rather large now )

[Duffers Mum]

ooh as an afterthought.... yohooooooo guests...you really shouldn't be surfing the net during work time you know

[fuzzybobble]

 

Stick to your guns, in fact I would be inclined to file the letters away under C for Cretins (my file is getting rather large now )

 

Mine get filed in the C section. The C stands for something else though.

[Duffers Mum]

Mine get filed in the C section. The C stands for something else though.

 

:grin::grin::grin: fantastic! lol

[fuzzybobble]

 

Stick to your guns, in fact I would be inclined to file the letters away under C for Cretins (my file is getting rather large now )

 

Mine get filed in the C section. The C stands for something else though.

[Pathway]

Hello

 

Have similar probs with Coop regarding copy agreements - so watching yours

with interest!!

[indigo_child]

Seeing as how they are quoting CSA guidlines, I would be inclined to write back to them quoting this from the CSA website:

 

Q. I have been told that if I ask for a copy of my agreement and include a £1 fee and this is not supplied my agreement is written off, is this true?

No, If you ask the creditor for a copy agreement (with a £1 fee) and this is not provided within 12 working days the agreement is not written off. It does mean that the creditor must stop collection on the agreement until one is later provided.

 

Drawing particular attention to the part i have outlined in red.

 

Surely if they continue to try to collect you can report them for breaking the above guideline?!

[darc'y]

I have today received the same letter. I have read the case of Mcguffick and the Royal Bank of Scotland PLC (2009) and nowhere does it say that Mcguffick has to pay the money he owes back to them, the only reason the case went to court as far as I can see is that Mcguffick instigated court proceedings against RBS because he did not want a default registered on his Credit Report. Nowhere in the case did it state that Legal Proceedings could be continued against him as it was stated that without a signed copy of an agreement the so called agreement is unenforceable making collection of any monies owed unpayable

[mark13]

I may be missing the point entirely here but surely McGuffick can only really come into play once an agreement is produced.

 

By the time the case was heard RBS had managed to find the agreement and the argument essentially became about what RBS where or where not entitled to do during the period they could not produce the agreement. Had RBS turned up at court without an agreement(the position any DCA who are 'still looking', would be in)they would surely have been laughed at.

 

It seems to me that any DCA trying to use McGuffick is assuming they will ultimately be able to find an agreement, which is demonstrably not the case.

[dadofholly]

I may be missing the point entirely here but surely McGuffick can only really come into play once an agreement is produced.

 

By the time the case was heard RBS had managed to find the agreement and the argument essentially became about what RBS where or where not entitled to do during the period they could not produce the agreement. Had RBS turned up at court without an agreement(the position any DCA who are 'still looking', would be in)they would surely have been laughed at.

 

It seems to me that any DCA trying to use McGuffick is assuming they will ultimately be able to find an agreement, which is demonstrably not the case.

 

There are threads on here where the DCA has even refused to pass the details on to the original lender and quoted this case.

 

Think we need to look into this a bit more - sounds like DCA's grasping at a straw - but it may need to be tested in court.

[darc'y]

My comments were made on what I read on the McGuffick case and the thread which I read made no mention of RBS turning up at court with a signed agreement. I have now found and read another thread and understand that they found a signed agreement but did not forward to McGuffick any information on what was owed or paid on his account and any other relevent information that RBS was obliged to send to him. Having been down this avenue before with another company and had my own debt written off by them I know they cannot make you pay for a debt without an original true signed copy of an agreement it is completely unenforceable and they know that. They can only try to frighten you into paying. If you are not worried about having a default on your Credit Report (which has to be removed after six years anyway) then my advice is to ignore them. Sorry for any confusion.

[davidd]

I got a letter to after 10 months also. I'mconfused because they willn't or refuse to take it off my Mums Credit file. I'm looking to see if this is illegal under data protection act or can i just request they carry this out as they haven't produced the CCA in 10 months.

cheers

[the_shadow]

I got a letter to after 10 months also. I'mconfused because they willn't or refuse to take it off my Mums Credit file. I'm looking to see if this is illegal under data protection act or can i just request they carry this out as they haven't produced the CCA in 10 months.

cheers

 

If they can show a clear financial arrangement has taken place then the McGuffick ruling backed up by Carey vs HSBC will allow them to mark the credit file of a debtor as in default or behind in payments if you dont keep to the agreement.

 

The ICO will back up the courts and the new OFT guidelines for s78 response.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

I got a letter to after 10 months also. I'mconfused because they willn't or refuse to take it off my Mums Credit file. I'm looking to see if this is illegal under data protection act or can i just request they carry this out as they haven't produced the CCA in 10 months.

cheers

 

If they can show a clear financial arrangement has taken place then the McGuffick ruling backed up by Carey vs HSBC will allow them to mark the credit file of a debtor as in default or behind in payments if you dont keep to the agreement.

 

The ICO will back up the courts and the new OFT guidelines for s78 response.

 

S.

[davidd]

Thanks for the replies guys. 1st Credit have stated in a recent letter that they have no CCA or Default letter in place and they are still not willing to remove the default from my mums credit file. They sent me a complaints procedure but i've done all this over a year ago so i'm not playing cat and mouse anymore. I'll contact the ombudsman later on and get a complaint away. Am i correct in saying that they get fined or it costs them £450 everytime they get investigated? I want to cause them the most punitive cost i possible can. Can i make a complaint to any other body re incorrect information on the credit file?

Cheers

[lgray]

From the RBS 6th FEb 2009 following a request for copy of agreement

 

"We regert to advise you that the loan agreement has been misfiled and despite searching of our records we have been unable to locate it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty this course of action requires" Just had a letter from Moorcroft asking for repayment watch this space

[the_shadow]

From the RBS 6th FEb 2009 following a request for copy of agreement

 

"We regert to advise you that the loan agreement has been misfiled and despite searching of our records we have been unable to locate it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty this course of action requires" Just had a letter from Moorcroft asking for repayment watch this space

 

haha nice... keep that very safe

 

S.

[lgray]

haha nice... keep that very safe

 

S.

You should see the rest of the letter. In-spite of me sending Moorcroft a copy of the letter two weeks later they sent a one line note asking for repayment offerrings. I have written back to them asking for a copy of the agreement that neither they or RBS have. Looks like it may go legal. I will advise.

[the_shadow]

You should see the rest of the letter. In-spite of me sending Moorcroft a copy of the letter two weeks later they sent a one line note asking for repayment offerrings. I have written back to them asking for a copy of the agreement that neither they or RBS have. Looks like it may go legal. I will advise.

 

They'd be foolish... the original lender states they dont have enough evidence to re-create the agreement as per Mcguffick, they'll not be able to use Carey vs HSBC properly, only thing I can see is they claim some natural disaster caused the agreement to be lost and not the negligence of the staff of the original lender.

 

S.

[lgray]

Indeed S. I'll wait for their reply and then call their bluff. I'll scan and post the letter it may be of help to others. RBS were within 2 hours of not being able to open the doors of their branches; no wonder.

 

One wonders what natural disasters have fallen upon Telford recently?