Told of by council wanting to bully me

[loopinlouie]

I kindly need some legal help. Today I have been told off verbally on the phone by my local council for recording an incident that happened within my house. I have a thread on the residential forum but basically they are giving me a hard time telling me it is against the law recording their repair men in my house on my average micromark surveillance cameras and not informing them in advance that they are on:eek:

 

It transpires the men told me some major work needed doing and have reported otherwise to the council who are in fact very pally with this repairs contractor, share computers etc.

 

I have raised that it is not against the law and should only be a concern to someone misleading someone like me and them reporting differently to their bosses. I feel they have been caught out, but instead of doing what is needed have closed repair and comming after me for ilegally recording their representatives and talking over me that what I have done is against the law.

 

The only reason I use recordings is an aid to memoir and they have it on their systems I do this. I listened to recording so could refer to it accurately when raising concerns that their contractors were not acting in my best interest.

 

I have mental health problems they are aware of and feel very very bullied and low. What have I done wrong?

 

I said I would only have concerns about cameras in a shop if I intended to steal but not otherwise, my cameras are visable what is their problem?

[loopinlouie]

ps. Son has just reminded me old sticker refering to cameras as deterant against burgulars, is still on door:eek:

 

I need some help politely putting these sh**s in their place, thanks:lol:

[Huff&Puff]

From what I am able to find out, CCTV in your own home is not covered by the Data Protection Act, and is perfectly legal. Much as these jumped up jobsworths would like it to be a police state, we aren't there yet (quite).

 

CCTV, Privacy and The Law - Problem Neighbours (UK)

[loopinlouie]

Just had them back on the phone, stating their concern was raised when they asked me how I was able to prove what was said on the original complaint call from me. I stated it was on tape and they seemed to have raised a red flag to a bull. It goes back to them asking me to describe their own agent and name and I said you must know who it was, they tried to make me feel they couldnt prove what was said as they have many employees, I said you must know who you sent and I feel they were going down the route that what hapened didnt and took offence at my insistance.

 

I know why they are so concerned, they told porkies and decided to bully me instead. I have told them I am now going for a full apology and reiteration that I have done no wrong. I have made official complaint request online and will hear back.

 

Huff, I think your right a police state where they are concerned, but as soon as they are caught out they dont want it.

 

Why is it so okay for these bullies to quote statements so false and get away with it. Told today they have no record of me stating I record calls. Funny in a few calls ago they put an update on their records and told me so that I still do it and were quite put out by it. A bit like the raised repairs that go walkies not on their system and they insist you couldnt have reported it.

 

All I want is non drafty double glazing which doesnt result in me getting attacked by them for their errors. Sorry very very upset and want to write letter to them asking for apology and them to confirm they dont understand the law they quote. I must admit I feel they are on a damage limitation task now, talking to me like a child couldnt talk any slower if they tried. I may be mentaly ill but not deaf:D Or maybe the destress of them ringing me again had them on the booze:p Only joking of course

Edited January 5, 2010 by loopinlouie

[roadkill]

As far as i am aware privately owned cctv or recording equipment is nothing to do with them nor is it illegal with in your own premises to record anyone and anything you want to. They have no right or any claim to that property and never will have so how can it be illegal when they have no right or claim to the property in question. Ask them what law you are breaking and to provide it in writing showing you what law you are breaking. Also never speak to them on the phone ask any correspondence to be mailed to you so you have it in writing.

[loopinlouie]

Thanks for advice roadkill. I have asked for compliants procedure and will ask for them to quote what laws I broke in writing. I dont know if anyone elses like me, but just hard to switch off, last time sat up all night worrying and now gone two weeks with no more than two hours sleep a night. Its the feeling of someone in power says this is so, so it must be and although I have done nothing wrong, I feel I have to justify to all these people that fact, I cant switch off from having to prove myself innocent and telling the truth, though I know what that goes back to, but any how thanks xxx Told my mental health condition is related to my epilepsy partly and anxiety amongst others, but feel I may now need to have more help coping. In fact I am okay till have to deal with peole like this or go out of house, maybe anyone know what the role of mental health nurse does, do they call round house?

[Fuzzgin]

If it's illegal, then I hope Rogue Traders producers feel the full force of the law. Honestly! Surely you have a right to protect yourself with strangers in your home and this is a way that harms no one.

[ErikaPNP]

It smacks of inefficeincy for a council to bleat that you are breaking the law, yet they fail to elaborate any on that....what law? What's the name of it? Which section? Ir tickles me when people shout "that's against the law!"

 

"oh yeah? which law is being broken, then?"

 

**silence so deafening**

 

Ask them to tell you precisely what law you are breaking, ask for the name and section of the law which applies. Then listen to the silence at the other end of the phone. Better still, write to them stating that they have told you verbally during the course of telephone conversations that you are breaking the law, but have not elaborated on this and you would appreciate a response (in writing) citing which law they feel you are breaking, stating that you do not acknowledge you are breaking any law but if they can show you are, then you will amend your methods. If they respond with the name of the "law", post it on here.

 

Let me just point out something:

 

Told today they have no record of me stating I record calls.

 

Yet in a letter that the council sent you, quite recently and in regard to the same issue, the council said:

 

I am given to understand that you record conversations as an aide de memoir.

 

So how, exactly is there no record? If she knew, then there must be a record, and if not, why not? She should have noted it on your account.

 

Someone isn't happy at being recorded and is hiding behind a supposed law, that they cannot name......laughable really! Don't let this stress you.

 

If you need a mental health nurse to assist with your ill health, they are now referred to CPN's (community psychiatric nurses) and as the name suggests, they can visit you at home if you are unable to go to their base for an appointment. Phone your GP about this. If you need help, it's there.

[loopinlouie]

Thank you Erika, the letter confirms they know I record calls, I missed that one when she was spouting to me on the phone today, after all she is the same woman who sent the letter;)

 

Am going to get even with pushing them for the law they refer to gain an apology

[buzby]

Interestingly if you RENT from the council, then you have less grounds as it is not your heritable property. The council COULD have a T&C prohibiting CCTV in tenants homes, but if they do, then you are in breach of this, nothing else - it is a civil dispute and no 'law' is broken.

[bedlington83]

Interestingly if you RENT from the council, then you have less grounds as it is not your heritable property.

Heritable security has no meaning in English (as opposed to Scottish) Law. Although the OP could easily be in Scotland

[buzby]

Agreed, however the issue is not this, but the provenance of the tenancy agreement, which would not exist for someone who owned the property.

[bedlington83]

Sorry, I don't follow. What relevance is the provenance of the tenancy agreement to the OPs right to record sound and/or video in his own home?

[buzby]

Are you saying you are unaware that a tenant does not have the same rights as a householder?

 

As a tenant is fundamentally livimg under a counvil provided 'roof', their agreement will stipulate the terms of that agreement, which will include (but not be limited to) rights of access, your use of the property, and what you can attach to it. None of these have any relebance to a householder who can act in their own interests.

 

A council up here got a CCTV system AND a christmas lights display removed due to being contrary to the tenancy agreement. If there is nothnig explicitly mentioned, then there is no issue but I was quite surprised at the restrictions tenants must endure to satisfly their council or Housing Association.

[Yorky2008]

Interesting Buzby, how does that relate to such CCTV as standalone systems / webcam etc that can be set up without actually being 'attached' to the property? Would Louie be OK in that case?

[loopinlouie]

Well put it this way, the cameras have been up for years including the one facing my garden on theoutside of the property. When I asked them what was the problem, they didnt say you are not allowed to have them due to tenancy agreement. They said you have to inform all workmen prior to comming to you property that you have cctv on. I mean we are not talking tescos or high tec, its more like they are concerned their contractors have got caught out not acting in interest of tenants at all.

 

They made no mention of not allowed cctv in propery would think if so they would have made more a formal issue of it, they were more going down the line of data protection I think

[bedlington83]

Are you saying you are unaware that a tenant does not have the same rights as a householder?

Not at all, I'm a tenant myself. My tenancy agreement states that I can't hang anything on the wall but there are several pictures there. What can the landlord do about it? At the end of the day it's my home and I will live whatever way I please. I agree that it would be different if I started demolishing walls or ripping the kitchen out but what the OP is talking about is hardly on the same scale.

 

I accept that it may be different for local authorities, especially so in Scotland, so as far as your local council is concerned, how did they enforce the no CCTV/Christmas decorations rule? Was it through the courts or by persuading the tenants to comply?

[Yorky2008]

Louie,

 

So you can see the cameras as you enter the property?

You have signs up saying CCTV in use?

And its on the council records that you use them?

 

I dont think they have state there were not aware!

[2ltr16valve]

Louie,

 

So you can see the cameras as you enter the property?

You have signs up saying CCTV in use?

And its on the council records that you use them?

 

I dont think they have state there were not aware!

 

 

Agree there, I have a camera pointing at my car on the front of the house, car is on the highway.

 

Phoned council and they said its fine, called information com's office and was told same, All I did do was put a sign on front door saying "these premises are under constant cctv surveillance"

 

Also asked about cameras inside as wanted one on the inside of the front door and was told the same.

[loopinlouie]

Old sticker on front door stating cctv, the freebie sticker that comes with micromark, No camera on front of house, but on garden due to louts clinbing over fence and police involved some years ago, then put camera in front room and kitchen and just took one down in bedroom as playing up, but to cut a long story short they if I remember rightly were only put up by me on advice from police. I was getting stressed about certain callers and didnt want to answer the door, kept getting odd man asking did I want any work doing and he looked like the same man who had climbed in garden previously. I wasnt well at time but was convinced he was same man trying to break in.

[loopinlouie]

In fact I hardly pay attention to them, just that recorded voice on mobile for record of what they said needed doing and cameras were on. Gave me the sence of security I needed a few years ago anyhow. As said only people doing somehting naughty need worry;)

 

Anyone who understands my mental problems would know I have a need to tape for record. I have problems seeing hallucinations that others dont and sometimes knowing when better can prove they wernt there or explain how I set my top on fire after sezure, that was a concerning corker. I was oblivious that I was not with it, la la land after nasty seizure, trying to light gas oven, but because of condition I forgot how to do it. That happens a lot, something I do normally and then I cant remember how I do it, even basic things, so if Ive done something stupid, the kids can normally link it with if Ive been ill. Simples and nowt sinister, but council really unsettled me by their behaviour.

Edited January 6, 2010 by loopinlouie

[buzby]

The CCTV/Xmas lights issue was resolved without recourse to the courts, but they disappeared sharpish. As for not hanging something 'on a wall', I've also seen this enforced, and it included WALLPAPER! which the tenants were not allowed to change or modify, but they could paint it any colour or as often as they liked.

 

The bottom line remains, individual circumstances will apply in each case, and is something the homeowner doesn't have to contend with. The 'no record' mantra may well be a knee-jerk, in much the same wat if you tell CS staff on the phone that their calls are being recorded. They hang up and claim it is harassment! I stopped telling them and record anyway. Much easier.

[loopinlouie]

I agree buzby as recording only became an issue when they doubted my word of what happened with their employee. Shows what they think of their tenants, respect? or given to think they are pains in the bot when asking for repairs to be done?

 

I will for interest purposes ask for a copy of my tenancy when speak to them next week.

 

I am quite happy to adhere to my tenancy in everyway, but think there must be a bit where they are supposed to maintain the house and their responsibilities should be listed also

[Yorky2008]

Louie,

 

Would it be better doing an SAR (or whatever the council equivalent is) and getting all the info they hold on you? That way you can find out where they have logged details you have informed them off and they have later denied, inc telephone calls. Just a though.

[loopinlouie]

If they continue behaving the way they have then yes:)

 

 

At the moment though waiting for promised phone call of when surveyor is calling:confused: Could be the weather but I will phone you back normally takes them two weeks in my experience, but we will see:)