My lloyds tsb credit card debt

[MorganaNK]

I got a final notice of intent letter today,

which is the first communication I have had from them since the infamous yellow card (which I ignored) that came months ago

 

 

- I have tried to call them and I keep getting a voicemail message telling me it is Friday and to leave a message (like I want them to call me back!).

 

 

Which letter should I send them - I stopped making the £5 a month payments when I was made redundant

and Lloyds sent my two accounts to two seperate collection agencies

- both references were completely different to the ones on the payment books

and it took ages to sort which was which.

 

 

Should I call Lloyds Collection department?

 

 

Help please.

 

I should add that I am paying my other Lloyds debt at £5 a month to the collection agency, plus another debt at £5 a month - I am only on JSA, I live with my mum who is also in debt and only on a pension... life sucks!

[cerberusalert]

Post moved & new thread created.

[cerberusalert]

First send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12 working days from receipt, or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

Furthermore, with regards to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

Trading Standards can bring about a prosecution if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Further to this if it is your intention to arrange a call from your 'Doorstep Collectors', I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or any of your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Any trespassers you attempt to send therefore will be dealt with accordingly.Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

(Optional addition)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

 

(Print do not sign signature)

 

Thank you so much

 

Should I mention that I have had no communication from them?

[Fred Bassett]

If your only income is benefits, then paying them £5 per month is too much. Benefits are not there to pay unsecured debts, they are there to ensure that you can live to a basic level only. If I were you, I would immediately scale those payments down to 5p per month.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[MorganaNK]

I actually have more money going out than coming in... since being made redundant on March 9th I have lived my life in a state of constant stress which is verging on near panic... thank you for the advice

[joel.hall]

If your only income is benefits, then paying them £5 per month is too much. Benefits are not there to pay unsecured debts, they are there to ensure that you can live to a basic level only. If I were you, I would immediately scale those payments down to 5p per month.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

 

this has made me wonder something.

 

benefits are set at a standard rate as 'this is the amount the law says you need to live off.' i once applied for a crisis loan, part of which was to pay off a bill i was being harassed for. i was told by the benefits officer 'you cannot use crisis loans or state benefits to pay off debts'

 

anyone know if this is this true?

[Fred Bassett]

this has made me wonder something.

 

benefits are set at a standard rate as 'this is the amount the law says you need to live off.' i once applied for a crisis loan, part of which was to pay off a bill i was being harassed for. i was told by the benefits officer 'you cannot use crisis loans or state benefits to pay off debts'

 

anyone know if this is this true?

 

I don't know if it's true but it certainly makes sense. The benefit system is designed to make sure that everyone has enough money to live off - no more than that. It is certainly not designed to payunsecured, non-priority debts. If the creditor knows you are living from benefits alone, they can huff and puff, but they will go nowhere near a court.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[mr.ton]

Crisis loans are only for things like food,elec,gas in an emergency etc...

[patrickq1]

If your only income is benefits, then paying them £5 per month is too much. Benefits are not there to pay unsecured debts, they are there to ensure that you can live to a basic level only. If I were you, I would immediately scale those payments down to 5p per month.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

thats to extravigant fred...

£5:00 between all of them debt consolidation...

patrickq1

[MorganaNK]

"In response to your recent request for a copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account.

 

I have been advised by our client Lloyds TSB that due to the age of the account, a copy of the agreement is no longer available. Our client advises that by law they are only required to retain a copy of the agreement for a reasonable amount of time, which they believe to be 5/6 years. Your account was opened on 01/03/1999.

 

Lloyds TSB consider that you should still continue to meet your obligations under the agreement bearing in mind the agreement is not void, it remains valid and any continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies.

 

Section 78(6) only prevents recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Your £1.00 fee will be returned under a separate cover.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Karen Muir

Client Support & Quality Assurance"

[ar_123]

"In response to your recent request for a copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account.

 

I have been advised by our client Lloyds TSB that due to the age of the account, a copy of the agreement is no longer available. Our client advises that by law they are only required to retain a copy of the agreement for a reasonable amount of time, which they believe to be 5/6 years. Your account was opened on 01/03/1999.

 

Lloyds TSB consider that you should still continue to meet your obligations under the agreement bearing in mind the agreement is not void, it remains valid and any continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies.

 

Section 78(6) only prevents recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Your £1.00 fee will be returned under a separate cover.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Karen Muir

Client Support & Quality Assurance"

 

Bullshine.

 

You should cease making payments too them.

[MorganaNK]

I haven't made any payments since Feb (ish) - where do I go from here??? I also sent two of the letters to the people chasing my Mum - I will scan in what we got from Barclaycard soon...

[cerberusalert]

No CCA = No enforceable agreement = You can cease any payments.

 

Send them this; http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

As for the rubbish they stated about their client not having to keep copies of agreements after 5/6 years, they have to keep that information for 5/6 years after the a/c has been closed according to the Data Protection Act & the Money Laundering Act.

[bigandyuk1]

That is their way of telling you that the debt is legally unenforcable, but the debt still exists and they would be really happy if you would continue to pay it off !!!!

 

I would send them a polite letter telling that as no agreement exists then I will no longer paying them anything.

[MorganaNK]

Thanks guys - the letter cerberusalert posted a link to will be sent - their 12+2 expires next Weds....

 

Should I send it after that date or just date it that and know that it will be lost for days in the system due to the mail strike?

 

I am probably going to leave it until Wednesday and send it then - although the RM will more than likely be on strike again by then and it will take 100 years to get there...

 

Question (and please excuse my stupidity) is the 12 + 2 from the date of the letter or the date that you mailed it? I am assuming it is from the date of mailing but I want to be sure before I send out the second letter... thanks

[cerberusalert]

I'ts 12 working days from them receiving your request, but since they've already replied stating that they cannot provide a copy you can send the 'In Dispute' letter straight away.

[MorganaNK]

Thanks! I never knew that baiting Allied could be so much fun!

[cerberusalert]

Thanks! I never knew that baiting Allied could be so much fun!

 

I gets addictive.

[Consumer dude]

Question (and please excuse my stupidity) is the 12 + 2 from the date of the letter or the date that you mailed it? I am assuming it is from the date of mailing but I want to be sure before I send out the second letter... thanks

 

 

 

I think the 12 plus 2 are working days and I would give delivery five days after posting..

[MorganaNK]

They received it on the 20th, so I am going to date the letter the 03/11/09 and use that as the 12 + 2 default date...

 

And yes, it is addictive... I am dealing with so many idiotic DCAs at the moment for my mum and I that I think I may well qualify for the British 2012 Olympic DCA Baiting Team!

[MorganaNK]

In between packing for the impending move, I finally got round to sending the in dispute letter to AIC... they sent it back to me this morning (the original letter with the signed for sticker on the top of the letter and their blue stamp across it), with a copy of their letter already mentioned in this thread (reproduced below),

 

"In response to your recent request for a copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account.

 

I have been advised by our client Lloyds TSB that due to the age of the account, a copy of the agreement is no longer available. Our client advises that by law they are only required to retain a copy of the agreement for a reasonable amount of time, which they believe to be 5/6 years. Your account was opened on 01/03/1999.

 

Lloyds TSB consider that you should still continue to meet your obligations under the agreement bearing in mind the agreement is not void, it remains valid and any continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies.

 

Section 78(6) only prevents recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Your £1.00 fee will be returned under a separate cover."

 

and the following:

 

"Thank you for your letter dated 25/11/09, which I have attached for your reference.

 

Please see copy of letter I sent you dated 23/10/09.

 

We were advised by Lloyds TSB, that a copy of your agreement was unavailable due to the age of your account.

 

If you are unhappy with our response I would suggest that you contact Lloyds TSB directly."

 

Reading through these forums, I am under the impression that I have to do no more. They work for Lloyds TSB not me, so if they won't put in the legwork the matter is over - unless the CCA miraculously appears. However, considering what they said in the first letter - is sitting back doing nothing the right action?

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Section 78(6) only prevents recovery of the debt through the courts.

that sentence says it all really. All they can do is ask you for payment, equally you can tell them to swivel in any way you wish.

[MorganaNK]

Thanks Hon... it's funny, but all of the CCA requests have been met with the same "oops can't find it" or "here is a copy of our T&C's"... sent out three dispute letters... AIC are the only ones to respond so far... will be intrigued to see how Apex respond to theirs as they said "account is on hold while we look into this" and then sent a Final Letter of Intent to my mum!

 

I am so pleased that I found this place - and when I get back into work I will make a donation - you have all helped so much x

 

Hi...

 

As some of you will know, besides baiting AIC for myself, I have been deal with other DCA's for my Mum.

 

I sent a CCA request to Apex on the 17th October, which they received and acknowledged on the 20th October with the standard we will put your account on hold until we send you the documents letter...

 

Then on the 16th November they sent her another letter - the final letter of intent one. As we are in the middle of packing up to move, I didn't send the Account In Dispute letter to them until the 24th November (which I assume has been delivered but I don't have to receipt to hand to check).

 

Today she received the next level threatogram. I assume the letters have crossed in the post but...

 

"We have attempted to contact you on numerous occasions without success. Please note that unless you make payment on the debt within ten days, legal action may be taken against you."

 

It then goes on to list all the usual potential legal action it may take:

 

CCJ

Warrant of Execution

Attachment of Earnings

Charging Order

 

It throws in the addition costs and fees being added just to try and panic us further... and closes with instructions to contact them and a phone number...

 

Now that I have finished rolling around on the floor laughing, I am posting this here just to check that there is nothing else that I need to do or send to these idiots... besides a couple of brain cells!

 

Thanks

 

Hi, some of you may know that I have been posting here about my baiting AIC... besides doing that I have been helping my mum with various DCA's

 

On the 17th October I sent Apex a CCA request. They received it and acknowledged it, saying that the account was on hold until they forwarded the information requested.

 

On the 16th November they sent a final letter of intent. We are in the midst of trying to pack to move before the end of the year (hopefully - but that is another story) so I didn't get round to sending the Account in Dispute letter until the 24th November (which I assume has been delivered as I don't have the receipt to hand to check - will dive in a box later to check).

 

Today we received a threatogram dated the 26th November -

 

"We have attempted to contact you on numerous occasions without success. Please note that unless you make payment on this debt within ten days, legal action may be taken against you"

 

It then goes on to list the usual suspects:

 

CCJ

Warrant of Execution

Attachment of Earnings

Charging Order

 

Additional fees and costs may be added

 

Call us immediately, yadda yadda yadda...

 

I guess the letters have crossed in the mail.

 

Now, while I am rolling on the floor laughing, my Mum (who is 70) is not so sure...

 

Do I have to do or say or send anything more to these idiots?

 

Thanks

[Pinky69]

It's a standard threatogram - they "may" take action is the usual threat but they cannot do anything without an agreement. You can either continue to ignore them or send the Account in Dispute letter to their complaints department - the choice is yours.

[MorganaNK]

Thanks

 

I think that I may send a copy of the Account in Dispute letter to their complaints department - but I won't bother sending it signed for, I did that with the one I sent on the 24th Nov...