Wiper motor out of warranty after 6 months?

[stumpy77]

In April my best friend had her wiper motor replaced on her Renault Megane under the warranty as it had gone faulty , all was fine until the other day when the windscreen wipers stopped working. As a frequent traveller across the M62 between Manchester and Leeds Hospital (workplace) she took the car back to Renault at the earliest opportunity.

 

She has just rung me up in tears explaining that as the car has come out of its manufacturers warranty the almost new wiper motor was no longer under warranty so she would have to stand the full cost including labour. She has been left in a vulnerable position as she is working nights all week and requires the car for work and has no option but to pay up in order to get there. Not only has she had to pay £150 for a new motor they have charged her nearly £200 for labour which they claim is 1hr 45 mins.

 

Surely this cant be correct . Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[2ltr16valve]

surely the new motor fitted would have a 12 months warranty ? from date of fitting ?

[stumpy77]

surely the new motor fitted would have a 12 months warranty ? from date of fitting ?

 

 

firstly, many thanks for your prompt reply.

 

I have said this to her, I am assuming they fit a new part under warranty in the first place. This has literally just happened within the last hour when she reluctantly turned up to get her car back the garage part of the dealership was shut up with the sales part the only area open . She has asked the receptionist there who also stands by saying it wasn't covered

[2ltr16valve]

not a problem, I am not 100% on the consumer side of this but I had similar issue with a washing machine from argos that was replaced a few times within the year, needed replacing again 15 months after first purchase and I was told that its out of warranty... but dug my heels in due to the fact the machine I had was only 4 months old ! and got a brand new one

 

I would think the same would apply here

[Conniff]

The thing to be considered is how long would you expect it to last. You certainly would expect many many years of service from a wiper motor.

 

Obviously there was a latent or inherent fault with the motor. Up until 6 months the seller has to show that there wasn't a fault with it on purchase, after six months it is up to the buyer to show there is.

 

In the case of a wiper motor, assumption will also play a major part as there is no way that the motor could have been abused or used incorrectly.

 

I assume that the motor was retained by the dealer. You should go and ask for that motor so you can have it checked.

 

You should first of all visit another garage and ask if the motor now installed is indeed brand new or could it have been there for six months. There is always the chance that it was installed incorrectly and the plug simply fell off and was reconnected.

 

When you obtain the old(new) motor, take it to an electical motor specialist, you will find one in your area, (Yellow Pages), they will be able to give you a report on the problem.

 

You then go back to Renault and mentioning the regulations, you ask that they refund what your paid for the replacement and the cost, if any, of the report.

 

Come back here when you have the old motor.

[stumpy77]

thanks all for your help . I have asked her to get the faulty motor . As I mentioned earlier the garage part of the dealership was closed so hopefully tomorrow she will be able to get it

[heliosuk]

Actually the above post are mostly wrong and will lead you into extra trouble. This is how it works and what you should do.

 

When in warranty, parts and labour are covered. As in your case, if a part is replaced under that warranty then the warranty applicable is that which applies to the whole car, so when the whole car warranty expires so does the warranty on the wiper motor. Now this is assuming you bought the car from new and it was repaired under warranty at an official dealer. The ownership of any parts covered under warranty belongs with the manufacturer, not the owner of the car.

 

Now this is where it can get interesting. Whilst under warranty, the manufacturer is not obliged to replace the part with a brand new one, it can be a re-manufactured unit however in itself it has a warranty of one year or 12K miles whichever occurs first. So it may be that the replacement in the first instance was a re-con unit and not actually new.

 

What should have happened is the dealer should have replaced under a parts warranty claim or at least got in touch with the dealer helpline to ask for advice.

 

However, as the wise Conniff points out as you have paid for the item, the replacement is your property so they should give it back. To counter this, as above, often they charge an exhorbitant exchange fee as the unit is exchange which they would be entitled to charge.

 

So let's now look at the labour. If we take out the VAT element on the assumption the quoted figure is the total amount we're left with a labour rate of approximately £90 per hour which is essentially London rates so I smell a rat now, especially as I know the route well and know the dealers don't charge this in this area.

 

The other thing is that to get failures of this kind is extreamly remote so I'm beginning to wonder if this is actually the root cause of the failure. Motors of this nature, as drive/power a safety item are tested to very high standards, even the replacement items that are re manufactured.

 

I've come acroos similar faults on "French cars" and the cause has turned out to be the simple relay in the fuse box with sticky contacts. If this is the case then the dealer has changed it for nothing as is usual without looking as to why it did it.

 

To go forward I'd suggest the following. Call the service manager at the dealer ship, or the dealer principal and ask for a stop on the part as is under query. This is routine in the warranty process.

 

Explain the above and see what the outcome is and post it here and we'll take it from here!

[2ltr16valve]

you say the advice given is mostly wrong.....

 

But you say

 

Now this is where it can get interesting. Whilst under warranty, the manufacturer is not obliged to replace the part with a brand new one, it can be a re-manufactured unit however in itself it has a warranty of one year or 12K miles whichever occurs first. So it may be that the replacement in the first instance was a re-con unit and not actually new.

 

now, a wiper motor should and I expect on many many other cars lasts a lot more than 12k miles or one year....

 

Can you explain how a non wear and tear part would be given a mileage warranty .... it might not rain for the duration of 12k miles, or it could pee down every day .... really do not see the relevance

[heliosuk]

It's an uncontrollable feature on a car which has to cover a variety of weather conditions on the planet. They do not have a seperate motor for all the continents. It's rated to work in all possible conditions. The test procedure for engineering sign off is usually around 1 or 2 million cycles.

 

No part of a vehicle is not subject to wear and tear from the day it left the factory so is vauge.

 

The issue here is that something went wrong it's more a question of the warranty and it's interperation.

People think, that if a vehicle is repaired under the manufacturers then the warranty starts again which is not true.

 

If for example you had a 10 year old car out of manufaturers warranty and you had to replace the wiper motor, on that part you'd get 12 months or 12000 miles.

 

For info, a wiper motor is perhaps one of the worst things a manufacturer can gauge/calculate when designing/making as they can't control the weather and rely on the screen being wet to calculate the potential loads thus the loads on the motor.

 

The relevance of my post is that technically the dealer has followed correct procedure but could have done more to look after the customer. The next is that whilst under warranty the owner does not own the parts and the dealer can fit recon units to fix as per manufacturers regs, in fact is obliged to if that is what is offered to them.

 

There is more to this one than meets the eye.

[Hammy1962]

Actually, only minor points in some posts are correct. HeliosUK is spot on.

 

Generally, non wear and tear parts fitted under manufacturers warranty retain the portion of the vehicle warranty that is remaining. So a wiper motor fitted at 9 months effectively has 3 months warranty. An engine fitted at 360 day's old effectively has only 5 day's warranty.

 

Now, calm down everyone and before you start ringing the nearest TSO or high court judge read on.

 

Most, if not all vehicle manufacturers adhere to an official or unofficial 3 year warranty, some extend this, for major mechanical items to 6 years as laid down in some EU directive that no-one understands. As an aside, isn't it hilarious that UK folks hate the EU but go running to the EU regulations when dealing with consumer law????

 

Anyway, back to the plot, we must assume this motor was fitted under the 2nd year warranty and I guess the vehicle is now 3 years old, so the usual warranty terms don't exist. Think about it, if all new parts were covered under terms that reset at each replacement the consumers would have perpetual cover and the manufacturers would have large warranty bills.

 

Most manufacturers will look sympathetically at a goodwill warranty claim for a part fitted, whilst under warranty, that fails within 12 months of fitting. So Renault should have paid and the Dealer should have tried harder.

 

Now everybody, deep breath as this is a bit complicated, sorry for all you folks that demand 100% retribution, sorry, I meant contribution it is sometimes beneficial for the customer to pay a contribution for a repair.

 

Take a battery that fails at 2 years 360 day's, if you demand another one completely under warranty the warranty on the part is only 5 day's as the manufacturer who supplied the warranty has paid in full for the repair. Now most manufacturers operate a sliding scale for the third year, the consumer nuts would demand the nasty big corporation pay 100%, then you get 5 day's warranty. The clever people, would pay a contribution, say 5 or 10% and then you benefit from the statutory warranty on a fitted part, 12 months) I've even had people argue that the replacement should be covered for three years as well but that's another long explanation.

 

Fitted parts are usually covered for 12 months.

 

Accessories - did you know that accessories fitted at the time of registration and purchase have the same warranty as the vehicle, if you buy an accessory the day after you pick up the vehicle it just has the usual parts warranty.

 

Service items and other wear and tear items are handled a little differently and cam belts are an absolute nightmare, don't even ask!!! Or about corrosion!!

 

Briefly, if the manufacturers pays in full the warranty terms are not extended, if the customer pays in full or a contribution the warranty terms are reset, mostly.................

 

In this case the Dealer should refund the customer, Renault should pay for the wiper motor on a goodwill basis, the service manger should be able to sort it.

 

Hammy

Edited October 28, 2009 by Hammy1962

[Conniff]

That is a lot of shoulds and the dealer has already refused, the motor is only 6 months old so I would push this all the way with a threat of court. A wiper motor has probably the longest expectancy of life of any car part.

[Hammy1962]

Ah, the old should/must argument eh. Should suggests an option, must is usually interpreted as an instruction.

 

As neither of us are the decision makers for the Dealer or Renault and the poster has their own free will, neither you or me are in a position to insist on anything.

 

Anyone with an ounce of negotiation skill will use should as the first option.

 

Read the post again, in the context which I have used the word should, it cannot be changed to 'must'.

 

The Dealer should (we can't use 'must' in this case as we cannot guarantee it!) respond to reasoned argument.

 

The sledgehammer approach of threatened court action so early on in a dispute is for those who cannot get a satisfactory solution by reasonable negotiation.

 

Hammy

[Conniff]

Which is why I said

You then go back to Renault and mentioning the regulations, you ask that they refund what your paid for the replacement and the cost, if any, of the report.

[Hammy1962]

Can one of the clever people add a "Shaking head in disbelief" Icon for those times when 1000 words are just not enough.

 

Hammy

[Conniff]

Lets not forget that warranties are extras and do not replace soga.

[Hammy1962]

Oh for heavens sake Conniff, with the greatest respect to you.......

 

Hammy

Edited October 29, 2009 by Hammy1962
I have decided not to give up!!!!

[Conniff]

No don't give up, are you saying they have no recourse and accept that they have to pay for a replacement motor that is only six months old because it was replaced under warranty?

 

Ok, what has been said above is the belief that if you buy a car at 2 oclock on a Wednesday and something goes wrong at 1 oclock on Wednesday 3 years later but fails again at 4 clock you have have to pay for a replacement even though it is only two hours old, unles the dealer is in a particularly good mood and feels generous, that is rubbish.

 

The op had a wiper motor fail 6 months from the end of the warranty and it was replaced free of charge. Now 6 months later when the warranty has ended, that motor has failed again. You are entitled under the sale of goods and services act to a replacement of that motor.

 

This has nothing at all to do with Renault, who you can't chase, and is purely between the dealer and the buyer.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Conniff

[stumpy77]

Thanks Again all for your help. I havnt been able to get in touch with my friend as she is on nights but hopefully a positive resolution can be met with all your advice.

[Hammy1962]

I'm not dismissing the SoGA, it's just not that to which I am referring.

 

The wiper motor was fitted under warranty with 6 months of said warranty left. As the end user has not paid directly for the replacement part (Renault did!) the end user cannot, or should not, (Oh crikey CAG'ers are not going to like this!!) use the SoGA legislation.

 

Of course the replacement part should be durable and if the end user had purchased the part then it would be covered under the act.

 

The end user did not directly purchase the part so the effective warranty on the replacement part expires at the end of the original warranted period. Even if that is only 1 day or 6 months. That is precisely why it is sometimes better to pay a minor contribution to a repair that would otherwise be 100% free as that restarts the warrantable period (of the part or repair) and of course is covered under the SoGA.

 

In this case the end user has to rely on the USUAL practices of the manufacturer as of course the manufacturers understand that a replacement part would normally last more than 6 months.

 

The end user, should or must not end up paying for this repair, Renault should and at a push the dealer must.

 

However the franchise should!!! have guidelines for this eventuality and must refer to them.

 

This is the defacto standard of operation for most mainstream manufacturers across the EU.

 

Hammy

Edited October 29, 2009 by Hammy1962

[heliosuk]

Sorry to say it peeps but hammy is spot on as I have tried to point out all along. Forget SOGA and anything else at this point. As I have said at other times SOGA is not clear cut by any means. The thing here is to pursue the dealership to do their job properley which they should have done in the first place. They were correct in charging but could have gone direct to Renault before asking the client to pay, secondly, charge but give the client a claim number that should have been made on their behalf.

 

I'll also say from first hand experience, dealing with the things dealers cannot solve at the pointy end, customers who acted reasonably, putting their case without resorting to legal action or personal threats, got a lot more than they expected in return. After all it's all based on "what would a reasonable person expect from a reasonable person".

 

The way forward with this one is to go back to the dealer and ask the Service Manager to submit either a parts warranty claim or goodwill.

 

FINITO!!!

[RenaultUK]

Hi Stumpy77

 

I'm David from Renault UK, I saw your post and I wanted to respond to it. I'm sorry that you've suffered a repeat issue with your wiper motor. As I think has been mentioned, when parts are replaced during the warranty period the residual warranty on the vehicle is applied to that part. However we do look at cases on a goodwill basis outside of warranty and the repeat failure does seem premature.

 

Please would you email me at [email protected] with the following information:

Your name:

Registration number:

Current mileage:

Where & When you purchased the vehicle:

Which Renault dealer you are using:

A contact telephone number (pref mobile):

 

Once I have all this I'll speak to one of our customer service managers and ask them to contact you to discuss your case and see if we can assist with some of the costs.

 

Hope this helps.

 

David

Renault UK

[heliosuk]

This is a very welcome response. Perhaps should be an example to other manufacturers. Well done Renault!! (Hope it will be a 100% contribution under the circumstances Mr Renault and you give the dealer some guidance as to how to keep the customer happy!!!)