Lichfield Street Motor Company/Close Brothers - car continually going into "limp mode" **RESOLVED BY CLOSE**

[lolerz]

Hi all.

First post here after being an avid reader so here we go.

On 28th April 2023 I purchased a used 2015 Mini Cooper. The car had relatively low mileage and few issues (one of the issues it had they fixed before I accetped the vehicle).

I paid for this vehicle on finance, through what I believe is a Hire Purchase agreement. The creditor is Close Brothers Motor Finance.

In July 2023, The car went in to limp mode with a check engine light illuminated. As such, on 13/07/2023, I made a claim through the AA Warranty that was in place. This claim was accepted and the O2 sensor was replaced. This did not fix the issue.

Ever since, the car has randomly been going in to limp mode with the same fault. "Charge hose has fallen off". This has gotten progressively more frequent.

Today, I noticed that the car was significantly down on power. And on the way back from work the same fault had occurred.

My plan is to contact the finance company regarding this, as it is my understanding that is technically "their car" and as such can/should converse with the dealer on my behalf regarding this. I can prove that this fault occurred within the first 6 months of me/them being sold the car and as such I'm entitled to a repair under the CRA 2015.

I would appreciate some help on formulating a letter I can send to Close Brothers in order to facilitate this.

If I've missed anything, please let me know.

[dx100uk]

i would be writing to both.

regardless to the repairs, simply list the date/times the limp home has come on and that the car is now becoming unreliable and sometimes dangerous to drive esp as this has now happened on a motorway (white lie prove it s not true).

could this please be investigated under my consumer rights and mine and my families safely concerns before the bad weather sets in.

[lolerz]

Thank you for your input DX.

It is the case that this happens on the motorway, it's where 90% of my miles are done and the dealer knows this!

It's still definitely worth keeping the finance company in the loop from the start?

[dx100uk]

as i said write to both

dx

 

[BankFodder]

You are just within the six months provided by the consumer rights act.

This means that you should write to them immediately and assert your right and to reject the vehicle within the first six months subject to their single opportunity to attempt to repair.

Tell the finance company that you want them to organise a repair and that if they do not or if the repair fails, then you will insist on a refund of your purchase price plus any expenses incurred such as insurance and tax.

Send the letter off immediately. Send also an email. You send it to both as my site team colleague has advised on two occasions now.

Make sure you send this by some method which is recorded so that it is clear that you did do this. We don't hear very good things about Close brothers.

You must make clear that you are asserting your six-month right to reject under the consumer rights act.

Let us know what is said.

[lolerz]

Hi All.

Thank you for your advice so far. I've done a quick knock up of my letter. I've tried to keep it short and to the point, do you believe that anything is missing or should be omitted?

I aim to send this by email and post today if possible.
 

Quote

 

To Whom it may concern.

On xx/xx/xxxx, I purchased a 2015 Mini Cooper D, Registration Mark XXXX XXX, from yourselves, through a Hire Purchase Agreement with Close Brothers Motor Finance. 

Since that purchase, it has gone into "limp home mode" when reduced power output on numerous occasions.

In the first instance, I used the provided 3 month AA Warranty to claim for a repair. This was accepted by the AA on 13/07/2023.

The issue has not resolved itself, and the AA warranty claim did not fix the issue.

The issue has progressively gotten worse to the point where the car is now permanently down on power and going into "limp home mode" multiple times per week. This is particularly dangerous as you knew that most of my journey would involve motorways at speeds of up to 70 miles per hour, which the car can struggle to do in this mode.

Clearly the car is not a satisfactory quality but in any event, because it is within six months from the date of purchase, I am exercising my rights to a repair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. If you do not repair or if the repair fails then I shall assert my right to reject the vehicle and receive a refund or else demand the replacement of the vehicle at my option.

As this issue has occurred within the first 6 months of my ownership, it is reasonably assumed that this issue was present at the time of sale, and as such you have a legal duty to put things right.

I'm sure that you understand that this is not a warranty or guarantee matter. This is a matter of your contractual obligations and your statutory duties.

I look forward to your prompt response on this matter.

Kind Regards

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by BankFodder
Edits in red

[Nicky Boy]

Just added a suggestion above in red.

Wait for opinion from the other regulars.

[BankFodder]

It looks as if I have cross posted with my site team colleague – but anyway, I have made some amendments.

If you're happy with it then send that off – recorded delivery or special delivery so that it gets there quickly and you have a record of having sent it.

If you have an email address for them then email them as well

[lolerz]

Hi all.

Thank you for your time so far! I'll get this sent off 1st Class Signed for and by email tonight. Glad to see there weren't too many amendments.

 

[theberengersniper]

Some background information in case it gives context:

Your car uses a small capacity (1.5L) turbocharged 3-clylinder engine. The turbocharger, responsible for compressing the intake air/fuel into a more power-dense mixture, is connected to your engine's air intake usually by a rubber hose about 3" in diameter. That hose links between a cooler, to lower the compressed mixture's temperature (compressing it raises its temperature), and the intake. That hose is located down at the bottom of your front bumper and subject to water, stones, cold temperatures etc hitting it, and as such it deteriorates over time.

The error you have quoted would suggest this pipe has failed. When you require power from the engine, the hose is either collapsing under suction or blowing off under pressure, depending on which side of the turbo the problem is.

Provided nothing else has been damaged, this should be a relatively easy and inexpensive fix, but absolutely pursue them to do it.

[BankFodder]

Wow!

 

[lolerz]

Hi All.

Sent the above in an email to both the dealership and the finance company. I'll drop copies in the post tomorrow morning.

Thanks once again for all the help and information so far.

[lolerz]

Hi All.

Had a response from the dealership, it is exactly what I expected.

 

Quote

Good morning xxx

if the car was still faulting why would it have not been brought back to us the day after the repair?

Obviously the car has been in constant use since the repair.

We will not entertain a refund due to no contact from yourselves.

The fault could be completely separate issue after such a long period of time.

What are my next steps?

[Nicky Boy]

So, no offer of their one chance to repair.

3 minutes ago, lolerz said:

We will not entertain a refund due to no contact from yourselves

But... you are contacting them now...

I think BF will probably come out guns blazing next.

[BankFodder]

As you say – this response was expected from a car dealer which immediately goes into "limp mode" rather than be proactive and consumer facing.

 

Quote

Dear XX

Car registration number XXX

Thank you for your reply of XX date.

You clearly haven't understood that my letter is asserting my consumer rights and I'm giving you an opportunity to repair the vehicle but that if you refuse or your repair fails then I shall require a refund or replacement at my option.
I have copied this into the finance company – Close Bros – as because the vehicle is on hire purchase, it is ultimately their responsibility anyway.

I'm sending a copy of this letter to the hire purchase company.

Yours sincerely
 

Send a copy to the finance company.

Also send a separate letter to the finance company
 

Quote

Dear XXX

Vehicle registration XXX – hire purchase agreement reference XXX

I refer to the letter dated XXX which I sent you asserting my right to a repair or failing that a refund.

I haven't heard from you. However I've had a rapid response from the dealer who rather than being proactive have immediately defaulted to "limp mode" and are simply acting defensively and of course all the signs are that they do not want to step up to their statutory obligations.

You should realise that my car is now almost unusable. As the vehicle has been purchased under hire purchase, you are in effect the supplier of the vehicle.

I'm giving you a further 48 hours to respond and to let me know that you have contacted the dealer or some other responsible repairer of your choosing and instructed them to carry out the repair of the vehicle within the next seven days.

If you do not do this or if I do not hear from you within the 48 hours then I am putting you on notice that I will have the vehicle repaired at my own expense and then claim full reimbursement from you.

Yours sincerely

does this proposal work for you? Or would you rather get rid of the vehicle?

If you would prefer to keep the vehicle then the above letter is probably the way to go.

If you would rather simply assert your right and reject it then we will have to use a different tack but of course they will have to be given an opportunity to repair.

If close Bros comes back and prevaricate's then you could take that as evidence of their refusal to repair and that immediately triggers your right to reject and obtain a refund.
However you should realise that if they resist, then you will have to start a claim which could take six months at least before you would get your refund and get rid of the car.

I'm afraid that the consumer rights act rules in respect of short-term and long-term right to reject have not really succeeded. They grant these rights but they have not done anything about enforcing those rights and one still has to get a County Court which can take anything between six months and a year.

Let us know what you want to do

[lolerz]

Hi Bankfodder.

Thank you for your input,

I ultimately would prefer to keep the vehicle and in all honest don't particularly mind paying for the repair myself should it come to that.

My credit isn't the best at the minute I almost certainly would not get another car on finance and I certainly can't afford to buy one outright.

It's more the principle out of anything that leaves me with a potentially big repair bill.

My main worry was that it was going to be the turbocharger itself that was faulty but if what sniper says is true I'm glad it seems to be a relatively simple fix!

So, I will go with the above letter.

Thank you once again for all your help and assistance, you'll definitely be getting a donation from me once this is all sorted.

 

[BankFodder]

Okay.

Send the letter – but in the meantime I suggest that you visit a couple of completely independent repairers and try to get some kind of quotation for the work.
Don't pay anything for quotations or inspections at the moment but if you get a knock back from the finance company – and you probably will – or at least some delaying response, then we will help you send another letter to the finance company together with the quotations which you have received and put them on notice that you will be putting the work in hand and you will be coming after them for the money.

I think this is the best way to attack the finance company and to get the car back into a proper condition as soon as possible.

Of course you haven't had any response from close Bros yet so we are probably being a bit precipitative – but on the other hand, if you look at the threads on this forum involving close Bros, you will find that they are generally unhelpful until they are forced
 

[lolerz]

I've sent the response to the dealership. I had an auto-response from Close Brothers stating that they'd get back to me within 7 working days so I assume I should probably give them that before sending the second letter in your post?

[BankFodder]

No I don't think you should give them seven days.

I don't think you should submit themselves to their procedures or their timescales.

You have a car which is barely driveable – as I understand it – and so you should start to deal with it in the way that any reasonable person would if it was their own car and they had complete autonomy.
This means that you find out about having it repaired. Take it to the dealer who sold it to you as well. I think it's important to involve them. See if they will fix it and whether they will do it free of charge or whether they want money.

If they want money then find out how much it is. Get comparative quotes from a couple of other places and then let us know.

If the dealer is only slightly more expensive than the others then it will be better to go to them because as close brothers are prepared to provide finance for them, it means that presumably there is some level of trust.

Anyway, it's important to keep control of the situation. Don't cede control to the dealer or to the finance company. You are their customer and they are you level of customer service and simply saying that they will get back to you within seven days is not good customer service.

[BankFodder]

You could also send this to the finance company

 

Quote

Dear close Bros

Vehicle registration number XXX. Hire purchase agreement number XXX.

Thank you for your message of XXX date advising me that you will respond within the next seven days.

I'm not prepared to wait for some indeterminate time for some indeterminate response.

You have supplied me with a car which is presently almost un-driveable. It is my sole mode of transport and so I am taking immediate action to obtain some comparative quotations for carrying out the work to put the car into its full satisfactory contractual condition.

When I obtain the quotations, I will forward them to you so that you will be fully aware of the actions I have taken and any money that I'm proposing to spend on your behalf.

In principle I will select the cheapest quotation and I will start off obtaining an estimate from the dealer which supplied me the vehicle as a result of our hire purchase agreement – although they have already refused to accept any responsibility.

Once I have supplied you with the quotations, if you do not respond quickly then I will put the car in to the most appropriate garage for a repair of good quality and then I shall be approaching you for reimbursement of the bill.

If I incur any costs in relation to quotations or inspections, I shall also be looking to you to reimburse these as well.

I would remind you that not only do you have a contractual liability to me in respect of this vehicle, you are also bound to treat me fairly and also to communicate with me fairly under the FCA COBs regulations. If you eventually force me into litigation then you can be certain that there will be a claim for your breach of the COBs rules as well as any breach of contract.

Yours sincerely

 

[lolerz]

Thank you for this! 

In principle, I don't particularly want to take the car back to the dealership should I have to pay.  Is this a requirement or just some sort of weird "good will" thing?  It doesn't have an onsite repair centre anyway and uses the one around the corner.

It's also the better part of 90 minutes away from me so would not be practical, especially with the car being so unpredictable. I do have multiple high quality and insurer/finance company backed repair centres near me that I can use instead.

[BankFodder]

The suggestion that you pay is simply to move things along to get the repair done into get your car fixed as quickly as possible. After that we would help you recover your money from the finance company.
However you would have to give them a few days notice of whatever repairer you decide to use and the fact that you are going to incur expenses which you were going to claim back.

If it is 90 minutes away then is really too far away and so you should mitigate your losses and take the most practical route which would be to get independent quotations from repairers close to you.

[lolerz]

Thank you Bankfodder. I'll get on the phone to my local garages (starting with the one that does nearly all of the work to my cars) to get it booked in to be inspected and quoted.

In the meantime, I've had a response to the second email from the dealership.

 

Quote

 

Why did you not return the car the same day?

Your warranty was for 3 months this is a different fault.

We are obliged to no nothing.

Where was the warranty repair carried out?

I would suspect you have 12 months warranty on the repair so if it’s the same fault they will sort.

 

They really don't want anything to do with it, naturally.

 

[BankFodder]

 

Quote

Dear blah blah blah

Reference blah blah

Thanks for this message.

You don't seem to realise that when you sell a vehicle you have statutory duties and at the very least that the vehicle has to be of satisfactory quality and remain that way for a reasonable period of time.

I'm dealing with the finance company at the moment but they are being made aware of all the messages that you send me.

Not only that, this story and your responses are being shared on the Internet.

 

By the way, what's the name of the person who signing off these messages?

Don't worry about naming them – just tell us the name. There is no downside

[Nicky Boy]

LOVE this one BF!